13 bullet cases in m/bedroom, yet no follower plate mark found on them...

[mike tesko]

You are lying as you always do. The weight of a complete bullet is 40 grains (2.6 grams) all of the bullet fragments weighed less than this. Thus I have no need to respond to all your bull crap that flows from your bogus assertion the fragments weighed more than complete 22LR rounds.  You start from a false position then make up crap based on the false claim.

The truth of the matter is that whenever you dig yourself in a hole, and can't find anything constructive to say in response,  you revert to abuse and allegations of lies being told by anybody but you...

[scipio_usmc]

The truth of the matter is that whenever you dig yourself in a hole, and can't find anything constructive to say in response,  you revert to abuse and allegations of lies being told by anybody but you...

You are the one burying yourself in a hole.

You present false claim after false claim.  You insisted only 12 casings were found in the mater bedroom though there were 13, you said there was an extra bullet found int he bedroom though there wasn't one bullet only grazed Nevill thus was not in his body but rather recovered from the room.  You said the rifle was against the window when police entered though all say it was on Sheila's body and the photo you rely upon was taken after the photos of Sheila's body with the rifle on it.  you keep claiming multiple weapons were used to shoot the victims though the casings were all tied to the Anschutz. You claim whole bullets were planted but there were no whole bullets there were fragments smaller than complete bullets that were recovered from the scene and victims.  The only whole bullets were unfired ones still part of a complete cartridge.

You ignore the facts and evidence instead making wild allegations that you have no support for and simply tell us these unsupported allegations are facts.  You need to prove they are facts just claiming so doesn't cut it.  But they are not facts so you can't prove it.

Your wild claims are worthless and while Jeremy might have initially found them useful he now knows your antics don't help him so he and you had a falling out.

[Jane]

The truth of the matter is that whenever you dig yourself in a hole, and can't find anything constructive to say in response,  you revert to abuse and allegations of lies being told by anybody but you...

You are the one burying yourself in a hole.

You present false claim after false claim.  You insisted only 12 casings were found in the mater bedroom though there were 13, you said there was an extra bullet found int he bedroom though there wasn't one bullet only grazed Nevill thus was not in his body but rather recovered from the room.  You said the rifle was against the window when police entered though all say it was on Sheila's body and the photo you rely upon was taken after the photos of Sheila's body with the rifle on it.  you keep claiming multiple weapons were used to shoot the victims though the casings were all tied to the Anschutz. You claim whole bullets were planted but there were no whole bullets there were fragments smaller than complete bullets that were recovered from the scene and victims.  The only whole bullets were unfired ones still part of a complete cartridge.

You ignore the facts and evidence instead making wild allegations that you have no support for and simply tell us these unsupported allegations are facts.  You need to prove they are facts just claiming so doesn't cut it.  But they are not facts so you can't prove it.

Your wild claims are worthless and while Jeremy might have initially found them useful he now knows your antics don't help him so he and you had a falling out.

Scipio, SHOULD you take the time to read CAREFULLY what Mike said, I think you MAY find he's repeated back to you the exact words YOU'VE (sometimes) applied to him

[scipio_usmc]

Scipio, SHOULD you take the time to read CAREFULLY what Mike said, I think you MAY find he's repeated back to you the exact words YOU'VE (sometimes) applied to him

Yes but I was able to recite the lies he told and explained how and why they were lies and challenged him to prove otherwise which of course he can't.

Even on the most simple issues he distorts.  He takes the report that an old woman's body was seen in the kitchen and the log entry that 2 bodies were found and this proves Sheila was in the kitchen alive when police entered though it would have been referring to June not Sheila and a body not a live woman.  Of course we know it was just Nevill's body mistaken for an elderly female.

Playing games is worthless it doesn't advance your agenda and simply harms your reputation.

[mike tesko]

Yes but I was able to recite the lies he told and explained how and why they were lies and challenged him to prove otherwise which of course he can't.

Even on the most simple issues he distorts.  He takes the report that an old woman's body was seen in the kitchen and the log entry that 2 bodies were found and this proves Sheila was in the kitchen alive when police entered though it would have been referring to June not Sheila and a body not a live woman.  Of course we know it was just Nevill's body mistaken for an elderly female.

Playing games is worthless it doesn't advance your agenda and simply harms your reputation.

Wrong again, I have never said the female body in the kitchen was an old woman, I have always said the female seen through the kitchen window was Sheila Caffell, because it was...

[scipio_usmc]

Wrong again, I have never said the female body in the kitchen was an old woman, I have always said the female seen through the kitchen window was Sheila Caffell, because it was...

That's my point.  You just make up anything you feel like without regard to the evidence.  Collins said he saw an old lady and yet you claim it was Sheila.  If a witness claimed to see a big black guy committing a crime you would have no problem claiming it was Maggie Thatcher the witness saw.  You divorce yourself from the evidence and just assert anything you feel like.  What you assert has no support at all.  That is the issue.

Wouldn't you rather have a reputation where people trust you as opposed to having a reputation of someone who cries wolf?   

 

[mike tesko]

The only female Collins could have seen was Sheila, and the only female found upon entry was Sheila, it couldn't have been June Bamber because after she had been shot she never left the main bedroom.  The sighting of the female by Collins through the kitchen window, is a separate event to the reports logged in the police radio messages passed declaring the discovery of a female body...

[Jane]

The only female Collins could have seen was Sheila, and the only female found upon entry was Sheila, it couldn't have been June Banber because after she had been shot she never left the main bedroom.  The sighting of the female by Collins through the kitchen window, is a separate event to the reports logged in the police radio messages passed declaring the discovery of a female body...

OR he needed to go to Spec Saver

[mike tesko]

 The sighting of the female body through the kitchen window, and the finding of one dead male, and one dead female, once police entered the kitchen,  were two different events that were separated by several minutes. The claim that Collins made an error by wrongly identifying Ralph Bambers body as being Sheila's, can easily be discredited...

[Jane]

The sighting of the female body through the kitchen window, and the finding of one dead male, and one dead female, once police entered the kitchen,  were two different events that were separated by several minutes. The claim that Collins made an error by wrongly identifying Ralph Bambers body as being Sheila's, can easily be discredited...

Are you saying:-

A. That whilst it was CLAIMED Collins erred in identifying Nevill as Sheila, when it was, in fact SHEILA. B. It was WRONGLY claimed that Collins erred. He didn't, and it was in fact NEVILL.
C. The initial claim was wrong.
D. Collins DIDN'T make an error.
E. Collins needed glasses.

[scipio_usmc]

The only female Collins could have seen was Sheila, and the only female found upon entry was Sheila, it couldn't have been June Bamber because after she had been shot she never left the main bedroom.  The sighting of the female by Collins through the kitchen window, is a separate event to the reports logged in the police radio messages passed declaring the discovery of a female body...

Sheila didn't leave the bedroom either after being shot and she was shot before the police ever arrived.

Collins saw Nevill but thought Nevill's gray hair was old lady hair.   

[mike tesko]

Are you saying:-

A. That whilst it was CLAIMED Collins erred in identifying Nevill as Sheila, when it was, in fact SHEILA. B. It was WRONGLY claimed that Collins erred. He didn't, and it was in fact NEVILL.
C. The initial claim was wrong.
D. Collins DIDN'T make an error.
E. Collins needed glasses.

Collins, could not have found himself in the position of being able to mistakenly identify his body as the body of a female. The angle was to acute. Nevilles body was not originally croutched over an overturned chair in the vicinity of the coal bucket by tge corner of the aga surround, his body ended up there in that position after the raid team entered the farmhouse. It is important to remember that, because his body was in a different location inside the kitchen when Collins looked through the kitchen window,  he couldn't see any part of Nevilles body at that time to form a view as to whose body it might have been. He saw a female on that occasion,  he didn't say he saw a female who had her head in the coal bucket, he didn' t mention anything about seeing blood all over the floor in the vicinity of the female he could see...

[Jan]

You are the one burying yourself in a hole.

You present false claim after false claim.  You insisted only 12 casings were found in the mater bedroom though there were 13, you said there was an extra bullet found int he bedroom though there wasn't one bullet only grazed Nevill thus was not in his body but rather recovered from the room.  You said the rifle was against the window when police entered though all say it was on Sheila's body and the photo you rely upon was taken after the photos of Sheila's body with the rifle on it.  you keep claiming multiple weapons were used to shoot the victims though the casings were all tied to the Anschutz. You claim whole bullets were planted but there were no whole bullets there were fragments smaller than complete bullets that were recovered from the scene and victims.  The only whole bullets were unfired ones still part of a complete cartridge.

You ignore the facts and evidence instead making wild allegations that you have no support for and simply tell us these unsupported allegations are facts.  You need to prove they are facts just claiming so doesn't cut it.  But they are not facts so you can't prove it.

Your wild claims are worthless and while Jeremy might have initially found them useful he now knows your antics don't help him so he and you had a falling out.

[/color]

The last paragraph is not fact - it is a personal attack and assumption by you - Why cant you just stick to the argument in hand without telling lies.You don't know why Mike and JB fell out - and why should you? Its none of your business.

[scipio_usmc]

O
Collins, could not have found himself in the position of being able to mistakenly identify his body as the body of a female. The angle was to acute. Nevilles body was not originally croutched over an overturned chair in the vicinity of the coal bucket by tge corner of the aga surround, his body ended up there in that position after the raid team entered the farmhouse. It is important to remember that, because his body was in a different location inside the kitchen when Collins looked through the kitchen window,  he couldn't see any part of Nevilles body at that time to form a view as to whose body it might have been. He saw a female on that occasion,  he didn't say he saw a female who had her head in the coal bucket, he didn' t mention anything about seeing blood all over the floor in the vicinity of the female he could see...

He said he saw a body of an elderly female.  He says that body was in the same location when he went inside and it was Nevil not an old woman like he thought.  The body was in a location visible from the window he looked in.

You made up that he claimed the body was in a different location than Nevill's. This is exactly the kind of thing that makes no sense because all you do is undermine your own credibility you fail to accomplish anything else by it.

[Steve_uk]

You are the one burying yourself in a hole.

You present false claim after false claim.  You insisted only 12 casings were found in the mater bedroom though there were 13, you said there was an extra bullet found int he bedroom though there wasn't one bullet only grazed Nevill thus was not in his body but rather recovered from the room.  You said the rifle was against the window when police entered though all say it was on Sheila's body and the photo you rely upon was taken after the photos of Sheila's body with the rifle on it.  you keep claiming multiple weapons were used to shoot the victims though the casings were all tied to the Anschutz. You claim whole bullets were planted but there were no whole bullets there were fragments smaller than complete bullets that were recovered from the scene and victims.  The only whole bullets were unfired ones still part of a complete cartridge.

You ignore the facts and evidence instead making wild allegations that you have no support for and simply tell us these unsupported allegations are facts.  You need to prove they are facts just claiming so doesn't cut it.  But they are not facts so you can't prove it.

Your wild claims are worthless and while Jeremy might have initially found them useful he now knows your antics don't help him so he and you had a falling out.

Wasn't there evidence from WPC Jeapes that the rifle was by the window?