13 bullet cases in m/bedroom, yet no follower plate mark found on them...

[mike tesko]

There was blood on the wallpaper in the hall leading into the kitchen,and also the handprints of someone on the blue and white chequered worktop,which I assume was not examined as I've never read that they ever were matched to any of the victims. Do you go with the scenario of Scott Lomax that there was a struggle in the kitchen between Sheila and Nevill and this is how the ceiling light got broken? I was also wondering about the lounge where Nevill watched television. Did we ever see any photographs of this room?

The way I see how these events unfolded, is that Ralph was not a sleep in his bed when things started to take a turn for the worst. He may have been in the lounge drinking, dozing, or watching TV, but I think it is equally as likely that he was at his desk in the upstairs office, where he was also known to spend his nights. Jeremy told me many times that his father used to fall to sleep in his chair at his upstairs office desk, where he also had access to the business phone plugged in there. Now, weighing things up over the last three decades or so, I tend to favour the suggestion that Ralph was upstairs in his office, not downstairs in the lounge watching tv, or dozing in a chair, or on the sofa there. The reason why I favour him being in the upstairs office, is because of the telephone there, I believe that Ralph made the call to Jeremy, and the police, one call after the other, using the upstairs office phone, not the round finger dial phone plugged into the kitchen. I believe that the supposed use of the kitchen phone to be nothing more than a red herrin'...

DCI HARRIS used the kitchen phone between 8.15 and 8.30am, whilst relaying live information about the new search for Sheila inside the farmhouse, after her body had gone missing from the kitchen after 8.10am. DCI Harris left the kitchen phone off its cradle at around 8.30am, once Sheila's body had been relocated upstairs in the main bedroom collapsed on the bed...

I believe (know) that there must have been  a struggle of sorts inside the kitchen involving Sheila, at which stage the kitchen lampshade got broken. I can't say that I disagree with Scott Lomax's interpretation of the events, but what I do know is that Sheila struggled with one of the firearms officers as he was trying to squeeze into the kitchen from the back hallway through a gap at the internal kitchen door, and that there was at this time a struggle for life over death between that police officer and Sheila, herself. That police officer, was PS Woodcock. It may well be that at the time of this struggle that the barrel of the sound moderator fitted to Woodcocks gun came into contact with the aforementioned lampshade and broke it...

I have never yet seen photographs of the lounge, or the upstairs office, but I believe that Jeremy now has...

Lastly, blood on the wall paper and elsewhere that you spoke about, was in my view deposited there as a result of Ralph Bamber fleeing the main bedroom upstairs, after being shot at, and wounded non fatally in the bedroom. I picture the scene in my minds eye, of Ralph attending the main bedroom to try and care for his injured wife, and being shot at, as he fled down the main stairs and on into the kitchen. I am not convinced that each of the four so called fatal shots that he received to his head were completely and immediately incapacitating, although I could be wrong...

Hope this helps...

[scipio_usmc]

Mike TESKO's Blueprint proving his theory is produced here, so that students seeking the truth can perform their own calculations:-

Bullet cases

01   -   loose bullet 1 June Bamber
02   -   loose bullet 2 June Bamber
03   -   loose bullet 3 June Bamber
04   -   loose bullet 4 Ralph Bamber
05   -  (1)
06   -  (2) 
07   -  (3)
08   -  (4)
09   -  (5)
10   -  (6)
11   -  (7)
12   -  (

-----------------------------------------

This leaves only 8 bullet cases to be accounted for, yet since June had been shot 7 times, (three loose bullets recovered from bedroom), and that Ralph Bamber had been shot 8 times (one loose bullet recovered from the bedroom), he having been shot four times non fatally in the bedroom, and Sheila shot twice in the bedroom, there is a significant shortfall of one bullet case in the bedroom, which supports the case for Sheila Caffell only having been shot once in the main bedroom, not shot twice...

There were 13 spent casings found in the master bedroom.

2 corresponding to Sheila's wounds (DRH/1 & 2)

and 11 corresponding to June and Nevill's wounds:

DRH/3, 4, 6, 7A, 7B, 8, 10, 11, 12, 13, 43

and for the sake of completeness:

Casings from the kitchen:

DRH 14 (found on the landing upstairs obviously accidentally conveyed there from the kitchen), 19, 20, 41

Casings from the bedroom the twins were staying in:

DRH 16, 17, 18, 37, 38, 39A, 39B, 40

[mike tesko]

There were 13 spent casings found in the master bedroom.

2 corresponding to Sheila's wounds (DRH/1 & 2)

and 11 corresponding to June and Nevill's wounds:

DRH/3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 10, 11, 12, 13, 43

WRONG...

12 in the bedroom, one outside the main bedroom door on the landing...

[Steve_uk]

The way I see how these events unfolded, is that Ralph was not a sleep in his bed when things started to take a turn for the worst. He may have been in the lounge drinking, dozing, or watching TV, but I think it is equally as likely that he was at his desk in the upstairs office, where he was also known to spend his nights. Jeremy told me many times that his father used to fall to sleep in his chair at his upstairs office desk, where he also had access to the business phone plugged in there. Now, weighing things up over the last three decades or so, I tend to favour the suggestion that Ralph was upstairs in his office, not downstairs in the lounge watching tv, or dozing in a chair, or on the sofa there. The reason why I favour him being in the upstairs office, is because of the telephone there, I believe that Ralph made the call to Jeremy, and the police, one call after the other, using the upstairs office phone, not the round finger dial phone plugged into the kitchen. I believe that the supposed use of the kitchen phone to be nothing more than a red herrin'...

DCI HARRIS used the kitchen phone between 8.15 and 8.30am, whilst relaying live information about the new search for Sheila inside the farmhouse, after her body had gone missing from the kitchen after 8.10am. DCI Harris left the kitchen phone off its cradle at around 8.30am, once Sheila's body had been relocated upstairs in the main bedroom collapsed on the bed...

I believe (know) that there must have been  a struggle of sorts inside the kitchen involving Sheila, at which stage the kitchen lampshade got broken. I can't say that I disagree with Scott Lomax's interpretation of the events, but what I do know is that Sheila struggled with one of the firearms officers as he was trying to squeeze into the kitchen from the back hallway through a gap at the internal kitchen door, and that there was at this time a struggle for life over death between that police officer and Sheila, herself. That police officer, was PS Woodcock. It may well be that at the time of this struggle that the barrel of the sound moderator fitted to Woodcocks gun came into contact with the aforementioned lampshade and broke it...

I have never yet seen photographs of the lounge, or the upstairs office, but I believe that Jeremy now has...

Lastly, blood on the wall paper and elsewhere that you spoke about, was in my view deposited there as a result of Ralph Bamber fleeing the main bedroom upstairs, after being shot at, and wounded non fatally in the bedroom. I picture the scene in my minds eye, of Ralph attending the main bedroom to try and care for his injured wife, and being shot at, as he fled down the main stairs and on into the kitchen. I am not convinced that each of the four so called fatal shots that he received to his head were completely and immediately incapacitating, although I could be wrong...

Hope this helps...

Yes of course. If Jeremy is guilty it's a further complication that he would not be sure as to Nevill's whereabouts with five people to control that morning. According to Julie the perpetrator would make a call from the blue office telephone which would leave a record of the number dialled,but of course we have no sure way of knowing who actually dialled the number. Didn't Police use this telephone anyway thus nullfying the record of any preceding call? At least there is some scenario there you have offered us,however unlikely some may feel it may be.

[Patti]

Interestingly enough I was reading one of AE's statements today and she was describing how she was told that morning via telephone form one of her relatives. She then phoned round and she said quite clearly that she kept on phoning WHF and no one answered. She did not say it was engaged.  This was prior to Bird taking any crime scene photographs, this was before 8:45......So was the phone back on the cradle? then taken off again just prior to taking the photo's....

Just because we see the phone of the cradle in the kitchen, it does not mean it was that one that had been used.....Could he have phoned from his office?

[Steve_uk]

Interestingly enough I was reading one of AE's statements today and she was describing how she was told that morning via telephone form one of her relatives. She then phoned round and she said quite clearly that she kept on phoning WHF and no one answered. She did not say it was engaged.  This was prior to Bird taking any crime scene photographs, this was before 8:45......So was the phone back on the cradle? then taken off again just prior to taking the photo's....

Just because we see the phone of the cradle in the kitchen, it does not mean it was that one that had been used.....Could he have phoned from his office?

I thought I'd read somewhere that Police had made a call from that office telephone.

[scipio_usmc]

WRONG...

12 in the bedroom, one outside the main bedroom door on the landing...

13 In the master bedroom: DRH/1,2, 3, 4, 6, 7A, 7B, 8, 10, 11, 12, 13, 43

DRH 14 was found in the hall against the wall of the landing but it corresponded to one of the shots fired in the kitchen.

[Patti]

KITCHEN
DRH/41 case...under kitchen table
DRH/ 19 case...on kitchen table
DRH/20 case....under the mat, infront of sink
DRH/23 bullet.....in a plastic tray on worktop near sink unit.

LANDING

DRH/14...landing floor adjacent to the wall.

MAIN BEDROOM


DRH/13 metal strip of doorway
DRH/6 top of quit right hand side of the bed
DRH/7 under wardrobe
DRH/7 under wardrobe (note Hammersley quotes two cases found under same serial number DRH7
DRH/8 left hand side of bed 4inches from the pillow
DRH/9 Bullet found 4 inches form DRH/8 near pillow left hand side of bed
DRH/10  on the quilt right hand side of the bed on floor.
DRH/11 right hand side of bed on the floor near the wardrobe
DRH/12 on the floor right hand side of the bed
DRH/43 under the wardrobe right hand side of bed
DRH/1 right side of Sheila's body
DRH/2 Left hand side of Sheila's body
DRH/3 on the floor inside the door of the main bedroom to the left of June's body.
DRH/4 next to DRH/3
DRH/5 Bullet.

TWINS ROOM

8 cases and 1 bullet.

DRH/37 under wooden bedside cabinet
DRH/36 Bullet
DRH/38 Under right hand side of the bed at the head of the bed
DRH 39 right hand corner under right hand side of the bed
DRH/39 (note Hammersley quotes two case shells)
DRH 40 under the middle of the right hand bed
DRH/16 floor between both beds
DRH/17 On wooden cabinet between both beds
DRH18 right hand side of bed

[mike tesko]

Interestingly enough I was reading one of AE's statements today and she was describing how she was told that morning via telephone form one of her relatives. She then phoned round and she said quite clearly that she kept on phoning WHF and no one answered. She did not say it was engaged.  This was prior to Bird taking any crime scene photographs, this was before 8:45......So was the phone back on the cradle? then taken off again just prior to taking the photo's....

Just because we see the phone of the cradle in the kitchen, it does not mean it was that one that had been used.....Could he have phoned from his office?

Yes, I believe Ralph used the office phone to make the calls to Jeremy, and then the police straight afterwards. The police requested shut down of the open 999 connection after Sheila's body disappeared from the kitchen, so what you are talking about could be true. DCI Harris did not enter the upstairs office as far as I know, so that leaves the use of the round finger dial phone in the kitchen for him to have used to make his call to ACC Peter Simpson between 8.15 and 8.30am. At the conclusion of the call between Harris and Simpson at around 8.30am, Harris would have terminated the call either by depressing the cradle in the kitchen, or by replacing the handset of the round finger dial phone onto its cradle, which if true, would mean that the phone was staged for the purposes of PC Bird to then take his photographs of it, I suppose to portray the image that this was the telephone used by Ralph Bamber to call Jeremy (3.25am) and then the police (3.26am)...

[Steve_uk]

I'm still not sure what the significance of the casings is(especially this lost bullet) if someone could spell it out for me.

[mike tesko]

I thought I'd read somewhere that Police had made a call from that office telephone.

You did, but I think it was mentioned like that to deliberately throw interested persons off the scent, or in other words a red herrin'...

[Patti]

Yes, I believe Ralph used the office phone to make the calls to Jeremy, and then the police straight afterwards. The police requested shut down of the open 999 connection after Sheila's body disappeared from the kitchen, so what you are talking about could be true. DCI Harris did not enter the upstairs office as far as I know, so that leaves the use of the round finger dial phone in the kitchen for him to have used to make his call to ACC Peter Simpson between 8.15 and 8.30am. At the conclusion of the call between Harris and Simpson at around 8.30am, Harris would have terminated the call either by depressing the cradle in the kitchen, or by replacing the handset of the round finger dial phone onto its cradle, which if true, would mean that the phone was staged for the purposes of PC Bird to then take his photographs of it, I suppose to portray the image that this was the telephone used by Ralph Bamber to call Jeremy (3.25am) and then the police (3.26am)...

Arrr but one of the phones must have been off the hook, because BT could hear the dog barking....but must have been replaced otherwise AE would have said it was engaged...I'll have to read all her statements...

[mike tesko]

Arrr but one of the phones must have been off the hook, because BT could hear the dog barking....but must have been replaced otherwise AE would have said it was engaged...I'll have to read all her statements...

Upstairs office phone originally left off the hook after Ralph had first of all called Jeremy (3.25am), and then the police (3.26am)...

[scipio_usmc]

I'm still not sure what the significance of the casings is(especially this lost bullet) if someone could spell it out for me.

The 25 casings prove the Anschutz fired all 25 rounds. The firing pin impressions, extraction marks and breech marks were conclusively tied to the Anschutz.

Furthermore they help establish where the shots were fired.  the only casing in a different room than fired in was DRH/14 which was in the upstairs hall kicked against the wall but had been in the.  We know all 4 shots to Nevill's head was fired in the kitchen and the kitchen was missing a casing so that is how we know it was transported upstairs.

[scipio_usmc]

Interestingly enough I was reading one of AE's statements today and she was describing how she was told that morning via telephone form one of her relatives. She then phoned round and she said quite clearly that she kept on phoning WHF and no one answered. She did not say it was engaged.  This was prior to Bird taking any crime scene photographs, this was before 8:45......So was the phone back on the cradle? then taken off again just prior to taking the photo's....

Just because we see the phone of the cradle in the kitchen, it does not mean it was that one that had been used.....Could he have phoned from his office?

AE didn't specify for sure whether the phone was ringing or she got a busy signal.  She simply indicated she was trying to call.

I thought I'd read somewhere that Police had made a call from that office telephone.

Yes a cop made a call from the kitchen phone early on and could potentially have hung it up though I believe he claimed he hung the phone up then removed it from the cradle again to leave it the way it was.

When the raid team entered the kitchen phone was off the cradle and that was why the phone company said it was engaged and they had to cut into the line in order to listen.