Another Freudian Slip?

[maggie]

I thought the significance of the torches related to suspicions the torches were used to heat something up to then use it to burn Nevill with.

I have never heard that Scorpio, think you made that up. There was talk about a drugs drop in a field and supposedly torches used to show a plane where to land in the fields but surely just local gossip and myth, I certainly don't believe it.

[Stephanie]

No, I didn't Susan - but I might 

Think you should!

[Caroline]

Got it  http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,6247.msg279021.html#msg279021

Thanks Steph. Jeremy (for some reason) didn't like being asked if the tractor had  a canopy - once he realised why he was being asked (Julie said he's mentioned being inside the cab of the tractor all day), he felt more comfortable answering. I can't help wondering that he thought Jones was going to suggest that someone had seen him drive it back that night so was cautious how he answered?

[Stephanie]

Thanks Steph. Jeremy (for some reason) didn't like being asked if the tractor had  a canopy - once he realised why he was being asked (Julie said he's mentioned being inside the cab of the tractor all day), he felt more comfortable answering. I can't help wondering that he thought Jones was going to suggest that someone had seen him drive it back that night so was cautious how he answered?

Yes I saw that - makes sense. Thanks for the clarification. He really appears to have played a cat and mouse game with the police.

[lookout]

Mostly Jeremy supporters but if the burns were made in connection with the murders something such as a poker could have been heated up to make the burns. Some things alleged are actually plausible.

I've made NOTHING up,as facts that I've stated DO show up even when I forget where I read them !!

[Stephanie]

I have never heard that Scorpio, think you made that up. There was talk about a drugs drop in a field and supposedly torches used to show a plane where to land in the fields but surely just local gossip and myth, I certainly don't believe it.

Scipio may be testing my knowledge on the case Maggie 

[scipio_usmc]

I've made NOTHING up,as facts that I've stated DO show up even when I forget where I read them !!

You have posted so many fallacies I don't know where to begin. 

In any event Steph seemed to be asking where all these specious claims that keep popping up come from and I noted mostly Jeremy supporters.

Someone posited that a torch of some kind was used to heat the rifle to make the marks on Nevill's back.  It is plausible something was heated up to make the burns.  A cooking torch can be used to heat up something, a weed killing torch can be used even pencil torches.  The possibilities of what can be used to heat something is quite large. 

[Stephanie]

JB is meant to have gone through all the rigmarole of loading and unloading the gun for a couple of rabbits? Experience would have surely taught him that by the time he'd have gone in to get the gun the rabbits would be nowhere to be seen. I'm not buying it.....

The mention of rabbits bothers me.....

[Stephanie]

"Between 8pm and 9pm I returned to the farmhouse for about 30 minutes whilst my parents and Sheila were having supper. The twins were in bed. I had something to eat. During this my parents and Sheila were discussing future plans for the children and treatment she should have. It was generally about what could be done to help Sheila in my parents eyes. There was a mention of foster parents along with other solutions which might alleviate her problems. Whilst they were talking I took my .22 semi-automatic rifle from the study and loaded the magazine in the kitchen after tipping a box of ammunition out onto the side near the telephone in the kitchen. I was in a rush having just seen two rabbits and I left the house leaving the ammunition behind. I loaded the magazine until it was full between 8 to 10 rounds and went outside. I told my parents I was going to get the rabbits. I was outside for about 5 minutes having fired no shots."

Taken from statement of Jeremy Bamber 7-8-1985 - sheet 5-6

[Stephanie]

"Between 8pm and 9pm I returned to the farmhouse for about 30 minutes whilst my parents and Sheila were having supper. The twins were in bed. I had something to eat. During this my parents and Sheila were discussing future plans for the children and treatment she should have. It was generally about what could be done to help Sheila in my parents eyes. There was a mention of foster parents along with other solutions which might alleviate her problems. Whilst they were talking I took my .22 semi-automatic rifle from the study and loaded the magazine in the kitchen after tipping a box of ammunition out onto the side near the telephone in the kitchen. I was in a rush having just seen two rabbits and I left the house leaving the ammunition behind. I loaded the magazine until it was full between 8 to 10 rounds and went outside. I told my parents I was going to get the rabbits. I was outside for about 5 minutes having fired no shots."

Taken from statement of Jeremy Bamber 7-8-1985 - sheet 5-6

Why were these two rabbits so important to him? Did he make this up?

How old was he?

[Stephanie]

"Between 8pm and 9pm I returned to the farmhouse for about 30 minutes whilst my parents and Sheila were having supper. The twins were in bed. I had something to eat. During this my parents and Sheila were discussing future plans for the children and treatment she should have. It was generally about what could be done to help Sheila in my parents eyes. There was a mention of foster parents along with other solutions which might alleviate her problems. Whilst they were talking I took my .22 semi-automatic rifle from the study and loaded the magazine in the kitchen after tipping a box of ammunition out onto the side near the telephone in the kitchen. I was in a rush having just seen two rabbits and I left the house leaving the ammunition behind. I loaded the magazine until it was full between 8 to 10 rounds and went outside. I told my parents I was going to get the rabbits. I was outside for about 5 minutes having fired no shots."

Taken from statement of Jeremy Bamber 7-8-1985 - sheet 5-6

In his statement taken the next day - he now states

"I returned to the farmhouse around 8 - 9pm for 30 minutes. At this time both my parents and Sheila were sitting around the table having supper. The twins were in bed. I had something to eat standing up at the kitchen sink and did not sit at the table. I joined in on the discussion all 3 were having in relation to future plans for Sheila and the children. I suggested Sheila should take a holiday to give her some interest."

[scipio_usmc]

JB is meant to have gone through all the rigmarole of loading and unloading the gun for a couple of rabbits? Experience would have surely taught him that by the time he'd have gone in to get the gun the rabbits would be nowhere to be seen. I'm not buying it.....

The mention of rabbits bothers me.....

He told many different tales.  In one tale he saw them from the kitchen, in another he heard the from the kitchen, in yet another he claimed he passed them and decided to go get the gun.

He made up the claim he took the gun and bullets out and left it out:

1) to give the false impression there was a weapon of opportunity for Sheila to come across because she had no interest in guns and would not have sought it out herself

2) to say the magazine was already loaded so there was no ability for Nevill to grab the gun and hide it as she tried to load the magazine

3) to say there was an extra ammo supply he left out that she could reload from

4) to provide an excuse for the gun not having the scope and moderator on it.  He claimed he didn't have time to install them because he felt the rabbits would have gotten away.  He gave the false impression the accessories were not kept installed on the weapon. The scope was normally attached but would have been in the way in close quarter shooting (look through binoculars at something a foot away from you) so he removed it but to hide he removed it especially for the murders he told the lie that it normally wasn't attached.

This rabbit tale was to account for these things.

[Stephanie]

He told many different tales.  In one tale he saw them from the kitchen, in another he heard the from the kitchen, in yet another he claimed he passed them and decided to go get the gun.

He made up the claim he took the gun and bullets out and left it out:

1) to give the false impression there was a weapon of opportunity for Sheila to come across because she had no interest in guns and would not have sought it out herself

2) to say the magazine was already loaded so there was no ability for Nevill to grab the gun and hide it as she tried to load the magazine

3) to say there was an extra ammo supply he left out that she could reload from

4) to provide an excuse for the gun not having the scope and moderator on it.  He claimed he didn't have time to install them because he felt the rabbits would have gotten away.  He gave the false impression the accessories were not kept installed on the weapon. The scope was normally attached but would have been in the way in close quarter shooting (look through binoculars at something a foot away from you) so he removed it but to hide he removed it especially for the murders he told the lie that it normally wasn't attached.

This rabbit tale was to account for these things.

You'll have to provide me with a reference to where he saw and heard the rabbits from the kitchen because I haven't seen that. I read he spotted them near the potato shed.

I don't believe the rabbit story, there are far too many inconsistencies in his statements. If he were telling the truth in the first place there would be no need to change his story.

The fact he seems to have gone to such great lengths in destroying two rabbits, in the knowledge his family were having serious discussions about Sheila and his nephews and their futures further suggests it was made up.

This doesn't sound like the behaviour of a 25 year old.

I have to agree it sounds to me like he was setting the scene.

[Stephanie]

"Between 8pm and 9pm I returned to the farmhouse for about 30 minutes whilst my parents and Sheila were having supper. The twins were in bed. I had something to eat. During this my parents and Sheila were discussing future plans for the children and treatment she should have. It was generally about what could be done to help Sheila in my parents eyes. There was a mention of foster parents along with other solutions which might alleviate her problems. Whilst they were talking I took my .22 semi-automatic rifle from the study and loaded the magazine in the kitchen after tipping a box of ammunition out onto the side near the telephone in the kitchen. I was in a rush having just seen two rabbits and I left the house leaving the ammunition behind. I loaded the magazine until it was full between 8 to 10 rounds and went outside. I told my parents I was going to get the rabbits. I was outside for about 5 minutes having fired no shots."

Taken from statement of Jeremy Bamber 7-8-1985 - sheet 5-6

In his statement taken the next day - he now states

"I returned to the farmhouse around 8 - 9pm for 30 minutes. At this time both my parents and Sheila were sitting around the table having supper. The twins were in bed. I had something to eat standing up at the kitchen sink and did not sit at the table. I joined in on the discussion all 3 were having in relation to future plans for Sheila and the children. I suggested Sheila should take a holiday to give her some interest."

One minute he's in such a rush to go out and shoot the rabbits and doesn't have time to join in with the family discussions the next minute he sits down with his family and joins in the discussions before heading out to shoot the rabbits. 

[scipio_usmc]

You'll have to provide me with a reference to where he saw and heard the rabbits from the kitchen because I haven't seen that. I read he spotted them near the potato shed.

I don't believe the rabbit story, there are far too many inconsistencies in his statements. If he were telling the truth in the first place there would be no need to change his story.

The fact he seems to have gone to such great lengths in destroying two rabbits, in the knowledge his family were having serious discussions about Sheila and his nephews and their futures further suggests it was made up.

This doesn't sound like the behaviour of a 25 year old.

I have to agree it sounds to me like he was setting the scene.

He definitely was setting the scene he staged the bullets in the kitchen after the murders and left too many for his claims to be true.  Had he actually taken a full or near full box of ammo in the kitchen and left them and these were used by the murderer then there would have been at most 25 bullets left.  A full box has 50 rounds and 25 shots were fired so that means 25 bullets left.  If it wasn't a full box then it would be less than 25 left.  Yet there were 30 rounds.  His story doesn't work.

His verbal account to police at the scene featured him hearing rabbits while in the kitchen, running to the study to get his gun and then going out to get them.

In his first written statement he said he was there a half hour as they were talking and that he then saw the rabbits and ran and got his gun. 

In his second written statement he said the rabbits while he was outside and went to the house specifically to get his gun. 

Despite being in a rush supposedly he didn't load the gun in the study instead he wasted time walking to the kitchen and loaded it in there because that is where he always loaded it.  Why would he always load it in the kitchen?  In the meantime he was never known to shoot vermin and was against shooting animals he left it to others.  The gun was always stored with the scope and moderator attached.  He initially lied and said it didn't fit in the closet with them attached.

His claims are simply not credible.