Author Topic: Another Freudian Slip?  (Read 42048 times)

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Offline susan

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Re: Another Freudian Slip?
« Reply #270 on: April 09, 2015, 10:05:AM »
Maggie this is what makes me think as Caroline said he was in the house when they all went to bed :'(

Offline maggie

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Re: Another Freudian Slip?
« Reply #271 on: April 09, 2015, 11:18:AM »
Maggie this is what makes me think as Caroline said he was in the house when they all went to bed :'(
I have thought that a possibility as well. :-\

Offline maggie

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Re: Another Freudian Slip?
« Reply #272 on: April 09, 2015, 11:22:AM »
I don't think its fair to call Jeremy a psychopath without knowing the full facts of an evaluation April or tag him with being one.  One does not become a psychopath over night, it has many contributing factors over a period of time.

Those that say he is guilty say he planned the murders,. so in effect he planned the phone call, therefore he must have remembered that.  He is hardly going to say he can't remember as apposed to yes I called Julie after I called the police.  This minor detail took 4 pages up on his statement where Jones tried to put words into his mouth by trying to get Jeremy to say that he called Julie before he called the police. This same officer went out of his way to prove he called Julie before he called the police.  So much so that he went to visit the girls the following year and concluded that the clock had been set 10 minutes on so therefore introduced another time of 3am which did not and never has fitted with the none of the calls that were made that night.  One has to look back at original statements to see the times that people had given which all matched the time that Jeremy had first stated in his original statement.  It was Jones that moved the goal posts, in fact it was Jones that challenged everyones times....I ask was this done to fit Jeremy to the crime, or was everyone changing their original times to suit.  I am so suspicious of that man...I know it is wrong of me to say that, but I feel something is not right.  :-\
I agree Patti, this case doesn't feel right and we have no idea whether JB is a psychopath or not. It's easy to make assumptions about him and the case it depends which way you look at it imo.

Offline Caroline

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Re: Another Freudian Slip?
« Reply #273 on: April 09, 2015, 11:23:AM »
Jeremy initially told the police that he called Julie after he called the police. Jones confused him and tripped him up...it was then he said he could not remember the sequence of events...

Hartley, I can't take that comment to fit any category, for I don't know the situation, body language or the conversation that surrounded that comment....Surely AE would have picked on that comment, but she didn't. The other things is that we do not know if that comment is from memory or from one of Ann's cards....

It might appear telling to those who think he guilty, but I am not sure one way or the other, but I do sway towards the innocent side   ;)....but that might be because the case its self was so badly handled, full of flaws, plus I am so suspicious of Jones....for some reason.

If anyone will persuade me it will be Scip, but he has got to stop being so biased lol

 ;D ;D ;D ;D

The reason Jeremy was 'tripped up' is because he was lying. He realised that the call to Julie would seem odd if it came before the call to police (because he had initially said he called the police IMMEDIATELY). Jones wouldn't have been able to trip him up had Jeremy not been desperately trying to keep his story consistent. It's far easier to remember something that did happen, as opposed to an invention.
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Offline nugnug

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Re: Another Freudian Slip?
« Reply #274 on: April 09, 2015, 11:38:AM »
I agree Patti, this case doesn't feel right and we have no idea whether JB is a psychopath or not. It's easy to make assumptions about him and the case it depends which way you look at it imo.

nobody here is medically qualified to diagnose someone as a psychopath.

Offline Caroline

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Re: Another Freudian Slip?
« Reply #275 on: April 09, 2015, 11:48:AM »
I don't think its fair to call Jeremy a psychopath without knowing the full facts of an evaluation April or tag him with being one.  One does not become a psychopath over night, it has many contributing factors over a period of time.

Those that say he is guilty say he planned the murders,. so in effect he planned the phone call, therefore he must have remembered that.  He is hardly going to say he can't remember as apposed to yes I called Julie after I called the police.  This minor detail took 4 pages up on his statement where Jones tried to put words into his mouth by trying to get Jeremy to say that he called Julie before he called the police. This same officer went out of his way to prove he called Julie before he called the police.  So much so that he went to visit the girls the following year and concluded that the clock had been set 10 minutes on so therefore introduced another time of 3am which did not and never has fitted with the none of the calls that were made that night.  One has to look back at original statements to see the times that people had given which all matched the time that Jeremy had first stated in his original statement.  It was Jones that moved the goal posts, in fact it was Jones that challenged everyones times....I ask was this done to fit Jeremy to the crime, or was everyone changing their original times to suit.  I am so suspicious of that man...I know it is wrong of me to say that, but I feel something is not right.  :-\

If you think Jeremy is guilty, it is perfectly reasonable to believe he is a psychopath. If guilty, he planned and orchestrated the murders of 5 members of his family, including two six year old children simply because he thought it was time he received his inheritance - which he didn't think he should have to share. No one said Jeremy became a psychopath overnight -that's not the way it happens - how a psychopath reacts to a situation depends on the situation. You don't have to be a raving axe murderer to be a psychopath, most never kill and those around them may never realise. For Jeremy the murders were simply a means to an end - the family stood in the way of his comfortable, hassle free future so they had to go. He has never expressed any remorse nor admitted to guilt. The psychopath check list could certainly have been written for Jeremy and he has been described using similar terms by people who actually knew him.

Steph is right when she suggests that there are 'red flags' - in fact, it's like red flag day at red flag convention!

Jeremy didn't remember who he called first? Such an important life event and he can't remember?  ??? More likely, Jeremy didn't want to commit himself because he wasn't sure how much they 'knew'. Interestingly, Jeremy didn't actually mention calling Julie at all in his first statement - he also said he called the police IMMEDIATELY after his fathers call, but couldn't have done if he buggered about looking for the number of the local station which he later said took  him 10 minutes. This is obviously when he called Julie. Today, he claims that he didn't call police until 03:36, so the earlier claim that he called them 'immediately' must have been a lie and what was he doing for a full 26 minutes after the supposed initial call from Nevill? Oh what a tangled web!



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Offline Caroline

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Re: Another Freudian Slip?
« Reply #276 on: April 09, 2015, 11:49:AM »
I agree Patti, this case doesn't feel right and we have no idea whether JB is a psychopath or not. It's easy to make assumptions about him and the case it depends which way you look at it imo.

I'm looking at it from the side of him being guilty - you yourself have also stated (more than once) that if guilty, he MUST be a psychopath.
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Offline maggie

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Re: Another Freudian Slip?
« Reply #277 on: April 09, 2015, 11:55:AM »
nobody here is medically qualified to diagnose someone as a psychopath.
Very true, nugnug and even if thy were it is impossible to make such a diagnosis without face to face tests etc.

Offline maggie

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Re: Another Freudian Slip?
« Reply #278 on: April 09, 2015, 12:02:PM »
I'm looking at it from the side of him being guilty - you yourself have also stated (more than once) that if guilty, he MUST be a psychopath.
I agree I would find it very hard to believe he could have done what he did without being a psychopath or highly disordered and narcissistic.
I know you look at it that way and it's up to you what you believe, Caroline.  I'm not convinced JB did it, there are many unanswered questions imo.  As I'm not convinced as you are that he is guilty, I can't accept that anyone can say whether or not Jeremy Bamber is a psychopath without professional face to face testing, however that's just my opinion.

Offline nugnug

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Re: Another Freudian Slip?
« Reply #279 on: April 09, 2015, 12:09:PM »
I'm looking at it from the side of him being guilty - you yourself have also stated (more than once) that if guilty, he MUST be a psychopath.

this seems to be a rather circular argument which hes guilty makes him a psychopath witch makes him guilty.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2015, 01:17:PM by nugnug »

Offline maggie

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Re: Another Freudian Slip?
« Reply #280 on: April 09, 2015, 12:18:PM »
this seems to be a rather circular argument which makes him a psychopath witch makes him guilty.
As far as I'm concerned nugs, I cannot see anyone apart from a psychopath being able to commit those dreadful murders, clean themselves up and face the police cool as you like a few hours later.  Sheer badness isn't enough to sustain yourself through such dreadful carnage and not have any emotional reaction.imo
However, this is just my opinion, he may be the exception to the rule  :-\ :-\
« Last Edit: April 09, 2015, 01:32:PM by maggie »

Offline Caroline

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Re: Another Freudian Slip?
« Reply #281 on: April 09, 2015, 12:23:PM »
nobody here is medically qualified to diagnose someone as a psychopath.

I think perfectly reasonable on a discussion board to put forward the 'opinion' that a convicted mass murderer is likely to be a psychopath.
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Offline Caroline

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Re: Another Freudian Slip?
« Reply #282 on: April 09, 2015, 12:28:PM »
I agree I would find it very hard to believe he could have done what he did without being a psychopath or highly disordered and narcissistic.
I know you look at it that way and it's up to you what you believe, Caroline.  I'm not convinced JB did it, there are many unanswered questions imo.  As I'm not convinced as you are that he is guilty, I can't accept that anyone can say whether or not Jeremy Bamber is a psychopath without professional face to face testing, however that's just my opinion.

It's not possible to say whether he is innocent or guilty either without having been there but we all have an opinion. It follows that psychopathy would be a consideration if following a guilty persuasion and it certainly has a place in such a discussion. We know enough about Jeremy to at least hold an opinion and the fact that such an opinion leaves a bad taste in the mouths or some is neither here nor there.
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Offline Caroline

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Re: Another Freudian Slip?
« Reply #283 on: April 09, 2015, 12:31:PM »
As far as I'm concerned nugs, I cannot see anyone being able to commit those dreadful murders, clean themselves up and face the police cool as you like a few hours later.  Sheer badness isn't enough to sustain yourself through such dreadful carnage and not have any emotional reaction.imo
However, this is just my opinion, he may be the exception to the rule  :-\ :-\

Psychopaths can do just that - and that's not an opinion, it's a fact.
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Offline Jane

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Re: Another Freudian Slip?
« Reply #284 on: April 09, 2015, 01:02:PM »
I don't think its fair to call Jeremy a psychopath without knowing the full facts of an evaluation April or tag him with being one.  One does not become a psychopath over night, it has many contributing factors over a period of time.

Those that say he is guilty say he planned the murders,. so in effect he planned the phone call, therefore he must have remembered that.  He is hardly going to say he can't remember as apposed to yes I called Julie after I called the police.  This minor detail took 4 pages up on his statement where Jones tried to put words into his mouth by trying to get Jeremy to say that he called Julie before he called the police. This same officer went out of his way to prove he called Julie before he called the police.  So much so that he went to visit the girls the following year and concluded that the clock had been set 10 minutes on so therefore introduced another time of 3am which did not and never has fitted with the none of the calls that were made that night.  One has to look back at original statements to see the times that people had given which all matched the time that Jeremy had first stated in his original statement.  It was Jones that moved the goal posts, in fact it was Jones that challenged everyones times....I ask was this done to fit Jeremy to the crime, or was everyone changing their original times to suit.  I am so suspicious of that man...I know it is wrong of me to say that, but I feel something is not right.  :-\


I imagine that he was so cock a hoop with having pulled of what HE thought to be the "perfect crime" that he had to call Julie first to let HER know. I would love to know what it was she left out of their conversation because it doesn't make sense as it is, NOR do I think there was ANY element, on his side, of asking her for advice. Asking if Jones moved goal posts and challenged times in order to fit Jeremy to the crime, makes no sense at all because it would have meant getting on board, ie making liars of EVERYONE associated with it, when they already HAD a culprit. Again, I have to ask WHY.

If we accept that it was planned, however loosely, how can someone who has no mental impairment, yet is prepared to slaughter their family, NOT be a psychopath?
« Last Edit: April 09, 2015, 01:08:PM by April »