Author Topic: Another Freudian Slip?  (Read 41951 times)

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Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: Another Freudian Slip?
« Reply #135 on: April 07, 2015, 05:50:PM »
Of course they had a reason to lie. They had decided to change track and get Jeremy - so with very little evidence they needed everything they could get - including elaborating what Jeremy said on the night so they did not look  like fools.

If he was telling such huge porky pies then why did the police pick it up in his first statements. They knew what he had said on the night - so why not pick up the discrepancies straight away?

It seems to me your bias and conviction that he is guilty blinds you sometimes -You say you like discussion - but all you do is preach and never look at the alternative possibilities.

And I bet all the officers had another debrief before the sept statements.

DCI Jones was at the scene a half hour was convinced Sheila did it and that was the end of it for hi, he didn't care about the kinds of discrepancies raised to him including evidence that Jeremy lied about the gun not fitting in the closet with the scope and moderator attached.  The police ignored all the red flags because they were convinced it was a murder suicide.  That is why they received a lot of criticism- for failing to follow up on things they should have including failing to get a ballistic expert, biologist and pathologist to the scene because DCI Jones decided it wasn't necessary.  They said someone higher than Jones should have been in charge and the fact that didn't happen was one of the problems.

There was no evidence anyone was seen moving and it is qwuite clear no one wa smoving, Sheial didn't commit suicide someone murdered her as well.  You ignore all such evidence because of your bias but all your bias does is prefent you from facing the truth.  It offers no ability to produce evidence that rebuts the case against Jeremy.

You have ZILCH to refute the moderator evidence you simply ignore it saying you choose to believe it was planted though you have zero evidence to suggest it was.  You ignore evidence you don't follow the evidence.  Myall had nothing to do with how the investigation was run his job was done when the bodies were found he jsut had to provide accounts of what he did and experienced and nothing more.  He had no reason to lie and help railroad Jeremy if he actually saw someone move.  Long before the police woke up and pursue Jeremy Myall already decided that he had not seen anything.

It is quite clear that everyone was dead before the police arrived.  The window was open in the bedroom and police were listening for any signs of life including sounds.  They would have heard any shots fired in the room.  All of the evidence combined makes it clear she was killed by someone else then moved flat and left there before police ever arrived.  Choosing to ignore this just means you prefer baseless opinions over well supported ones.  What you choose to believe is of no consequence in a debate what matters is what you can prove.

That is why I rarely bother presenting my suspicions that Jeremy burned Nevill's back after his death in order to try to make it look like he was forced to make the phone call in an effort to lure Jeremy there.  I suspect Jeremy hoped that is what police would believe happened but since they didn't come to the conclusion he wanted he had to deal with that.  He couldn't make the claim himself or it would give away he was the one who burned Nevill with such intention.  Just like he couldn't tell his lawyers what page he opened the Bible to and what the significance of the passage was because if he admitted he knew it would be evidence he was the one who staged the Bible for such purpose.

Since I can't prove these theories- I can't even prove the burns didn't exist before the murders- I rarely raise them even though they make sense and when I do raise the it is not cited as evidence of Jeremy's guilt.  It is just raised when people ask for possibilities to explain these things and even then I rarely raise them.

Jeremy supporters often raise theories that not only are not supported by any evidence but worse make no sense and are refuted by the evidence. 
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Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: Another Freudian Slip?
« Reply #136 on: April 07, 2015, 05:59:PM »
so here you are the very obvious lie that he told to the police on the 8th which contradicts everything he told them on the night. So why did they not pick up on this immediately?

Because they either found such inconsequential or failed to recognize the lie.  DCI Jones even found it inconsequential that the kitchen window could be locked from the outside.  They missed a lot of things they should have picked up and even failed to raise things they could have and should have during his interrogation.  Maybe they thought such things to be inconsequential or maybe they were not that bright so failed to appreciate such things. They failed to collect all the firearms, ammunition and firearms related accessories from the house because of the presumption it was a murder suicide though they should have taken them.  They just assumed the gun on Sheila was used to kill everyone.  It wasn't until September that they found out for sure that was the case. They did a poor job because they believed Jeremy.       

You admit they did a poor job but try to pretend it hurt Jeremy though their ineptitude was in his favor.  Their ineptitude almost helped him get away with it.   
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Offline Jan

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Re: Another Freudian Slip?
« Reply #137 on: April 07, 2015, 06:18:PM »
"
DCI Jones was at the scene a half hour was convinced Sheila did it and that was the end of it for hi, he didn't care about the kinds of discrepancies raised to him including evidence that Jeremy lied about the gun not fitting in the closet with the scope and moderator attached.  The police ignored all the red flags because they were convinced it was a murder suicide.  That is why they received a lot of criticism- for failing to follow up on things they should have including failing to get a ballistic expert, biologist and pathologist to the scene because DCI Jones decided it wasn't necessary.  They said someone higher than Jones should have been in charge and the fact that didn't happen was one of the problems."




Or as I said Jeremy did not say that on the night and they "embellished " their statements . The notes form the night that I have seen do not support their later statements.

I am not saying that it proves his innocence or guilt - the point I am trying to make is that the later statements were "embellished" to reduce the embarrassment - Or - to get their man .

Also if the scene was so obviously staged - then I can not see why they did  realise straight away?

They were not inexperienced officers .

As for the officers who said the body had been in a different position changing their minds later? Perhaps they were told not to rock the boat . As I say they were not inexperienced officers and their job would have trained them to be observant so I can not understand why you keep making excuses for them rather than accepting they may have been correct.


Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: Another Freudian Slip?
« Reply #138 on: April 07, 2015, 06:48:PM »
"
DCI Jones was at the scene a half hour was convinced Sheila did it and that was the end of it for hi, he didn't care about the kinds of discrepancies raised to him including evidence that Jeremy lied about the gun not fitting in the closet with the scope and moderator attached.  The police ignored all the red flags because they were convinced it was a murder suicide.  That is why they received a lot of criticism- for failing to follow up on things they should have including failing to get a ballistic expert, biologist and pathologist to the scene because DCI Jones decided it wasn't necessary.  They said someone higher than Jones should have been in charge and the fact that didn't happen was one of the problems."




Or as I said Jeremy did not say that on the night and they "embellished " their statements . The notes form the night that I have seen do not support their later statements.

I am not saying that it proves his innocence or guilt - the point I am trying to make is that the later statements were "embellished" to reduce the embarrassment - Or - to get their man .

Also if the scene was so obviously staged - then I can not see why they did  realise straight away?

They were not inexperienced officers .

As for the officers who said the body had been in a different position changing their minds later? Perhaps they were told not to rock the boat . As I say they were not inexperienced officers and their job would have trained them to be observant so I can not understand why you keep making excuses for them rather than accepting they may have been correct.

The same source which notes they initially had questions notes that after conferring with all the raid team officers that they were satisfied the photos were accurate.  If they were out to deceive and conceal then they would not have bothered mentioning their initial concerns that the photos might have been inaccurate.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2015, 06:49:PM by scipio_usmc »
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Offline Adam

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Re: Another Freudian Slip?
« Reply #139 on: April 07, 2015, 07:21:PM »
Of course they had a reason to lie. They had decided to change track and get Jeremy - so with very little evidence they needed everything they could get - including elaborating what Jeremy said on the night so they did not look  like fools.

If he was telling such huge porky pies then why did the police pick it up in his first statements. They knew what he had said on the night - so why not pick up the discrepancies straight away?

It seems to me your bias and conviction that he is guilty blinds you sometimes -You say you like discussion - but all you do is preach and never look at the alternative possibilities.

And I bet all the officers had another debrief before the sept statements.

There is a mountain of forensic and circumstantial evidence. Together with a motive, opportunity and no alibi.

No one can explain how Sheila could have committed the massacre. The evidence shows she didn't.

The police didn't need to lie. Jeremy lead them into a direction. The evidence saw them change direction.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Jan

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Re: Another Freudian Slip?
« Reply #140 on: April 07, 2015, 07:23:PM »
There is a mountain of forensic and circumstantial evidence. Together with a motive, opportunity and no alibi.

No one can explain how Sheila could have committed the massacre. The evidence shows she didn't.

The police didn't need to lie. Jeremy lead them into a direction. The evidence saw them change direction.

I would go and look up the definition of mountain if I was you - it is something a police force can obviously trip over even when it is allegedly staring them in the face.

Offline Alias

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Re: Another Freudian Slip?
« Reply #141 on: April 07, 2015, 08:13:PM »

Offline Stephanie

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Re: Another Freudian Slip?
« Reply #142 on: April 08, 2015, 03:49:PM »
I believe any Freudian slip made by JB should be scrutinised. I also believe he should be questioned directly regarding them and his responses noted in detail.

From past experience of another case, when I learned the truth that the person was in fact guilty and not innocent as many of us believed, the Freudian slips (made not only by him but others) were central in understanding the facts of the case.

The Freudian slips were highly relevant but were also easily explained away.

My advice would be to support a case like JB's with caution. There are far too many red flags imo for them to be ignored.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2015, 03:51:PM by stephanie »
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Offline Jane

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Re: Another Freudian Slip?
« Reply #143 on: April 08, 2015, 03:59:PM »
I believe any Freudian slip made by JB should be scrutinised. I also believe he should be questioned directly regarding them and his responses noted in detail.

From past experience of another case, when I learned the truth that the person was in fact guilty and not innocent as many of us believed, the Freudian slips (made not only by him but others) were central in understanding the facts of the case.

The Freudian slips were highly relevant but were also easily explained away.

My advice would be to support a case like JB's with caution. There are far too many red flags imo for them to be ignored.


Are the strictly Freudian slips, Steph OR could the be such an overblown view of his own intellectual supremacy over the idiots around him that he drops these little gems in because it amuses him?

Offline Stephanie

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Re: Another Freudian Slip?
« Reply #144 on: April 08, 2015, 04:04:PM »

Are the strictly Freudian slips, Steph OR could the be such an overblown view of his own intellectual supremacy over the idiots around him that he drops these little gems in because it amuses him?

Good point! I imagine there is an element of both going on.


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Re: Another Freudian Slip?
« Reply #145 on: April 08, 2015, 04:05:PM »

Are the strictly Freudian slips, Steph OR could the be such an overblown view of his own intellectual supremacy over the idiots around him that he drops these little gems in because it amuses him?

Yes, I think so. He also told different stories to different people. He told them the stories that he thought they would accept and changed them depending on who he was speaking to at that time.

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: Another Freudian Slip?
« Reply #146 on: April 08, 2015, 04:24:PM »

Are the strictly Freudian slips, Steph OR could the be such an overblown view of his own intellectual supremacy over the idiots around him that he drops these little gems in because it amuses him?

There is a reason it is called a tangled web.  Liars often make up things on the fly and can't remember the lie they told last.  They make up different lies for different people and keep adding to their web.  If you tell one person you were an RAF fighter pilot and tell another you were an SAS commando then if they compare notes you are busted.

The most successful liars plan in advance what they will say in full and stick to the script.  they make a script that accounts for everything that reasonably can trip them up.  There was someone who made up a story of being a vet and because he researched the unit he claimed to have been in he made plausible claims.  He even someone got governmental vet benefits.  he was tripped up by chance because someone actually in the unit in a battle he claims to have been in said he didn't know him.  This spawned people to do due diligence and find out he was in fact a fraud.

The hope of fraudsters is that people will not do due diligence and will just believe them because they are so convincing or expect people will not compare notes or expect people will not remember what they claimed in the past. Because they get away with it once they get bold and keep doing it again and again.



 
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Offline Stephanie

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Re: Another Freudian Slip?
« Reply #147 on: April 08, 2015, 04:27:PM »
He also told different stories to different people. He told them the stories that he thought they would accept and changed them depending on who he was speaking to at that time.

I disagree, he would have had to have to stuck to his original ideas/plans, he knew if he made any slip ups someone would be on to him. I don't believe it had anything to do with the 'person he was speaking to at the time' it would have been more to do with he couldn't help himself at times plus you have to have a good memory in order to protect the lie.

His ego would already have been inflated given the fact the police originally believed it was Sheila....
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Re: Another Freudian Slip?
« Reply #148 on: April 08, 2015, 04:31:PM »
I disagree, he would have had to have to stuck to his original ideas/plans, he knew if he made any slip ups someone would be on to him. I don't believe it had anything to do with the 'person he was speaking to at the time' it would have been more to do with he couldn't help himself at times plus you have to have a good memory in order to protect the lie.

His ego would already have been inflated given the fact the police originally believed it was Sheila....

I do agree with that, it made his mask slip a little. He became comfortable and confident when the police believed a murder/suicide.

Offline susan

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Re: Another Freudian Slip?
« Reply #149 on: April 08, 2015, 04:45:PM »
Steph that makes good sense I suspect to be successful at telling lies you need to have a very good memory and at one stage he did think he had gotten away with it and became over confident especially when he was being questioned by the police and indeed during his trial. Guess he got a rude awakening :'( I must add his attitude could have been attributed to the fact  he knew he was innocent and that is why he was a little cocky and arrogant.  All very confusing :'(.