Let's Start At The Very Beginning

[Steve_uk]

Do you think as he said he has given up - his words I think were  "I know I am innocent I just cant prove it?"

Or do you think he is keeping quiet because he must do his next submission through the correct channels - which is not a public forum?

I cant see personally if EP had anything incriminating they would be so stupid as to release it even if the PII files were released - things would have been destroyed long ago.

Trying to read him is difficult but I see an individual who thinks he's been outsmarted and doesn't know how to react,which is nothing new as he never really did know how to react to external stimuli. April made a post a day or two ago about his stunted emotional growth and lookout replied if anyone recalls them?

[Jan]

Trying to read him is difficult but I see an individual who thinks he's been outsmarted and doesn't know how to react,which is nothing new as he never really did know how to react to external stimuli. April made a post a day or two ago about his stunted emotional growth and lookout replied if anyone recalls them?

I agree - it is difficult to read him from the wildly varying reports from reporters to ex-inmates and I am sure his time in the high security environment must have formed at least part of his current  personality.

his life would have been so much easier if he had admitted guilt. It would have I am sure made his prison life more tolerable as although he rightly would never have been freed he would at least have been offered some alternative programmes within the confines of his in-caseration.

[scipio_usmc]

I think in the early days in prison Jeremy looked as if he were poring over documents night and day..I'm thinking of the photograph where we see him emerging from a vehicle,squinting in the sun after possibly stuck in a dimly lit cell,yet years later it looks as if he's far more half-hearted,despite his braggadocio in front of the British media and resigned just to make the best of things. Of course what is really going on inside his mind none of us really know,and I don't think any one individual ever really did know..

He pours over documents looking for anything he can try to spin in his favor.  That is what any junior lawyer assigned to a document review for appeal purposes would do.  The only difference is junior lawyers also flag anything that harms their case not just things to spin to help it so that you can try to anticipate what the other side will use against you and try to find a way to deal with it.

On appeal there is a tougher burden because you have to raise new evidence you can't just take existing evidence and put a new spin on it.  Furthermore you need solid evidence just making an allegation won't do. 

[Steve_uk]

I agree - it is difficult to read him from the wildly varying reports from reporters to ex-inmates and I am sure his time in the high security environment must have formed at least part of his current  personality.

his life would have been so much easier if he had admitted guilt. It would have I am sure made his prison life more tolerable as although he rightly would never have been freed he would at least have been offered some alternative programmes within the confines of his in-caseration.

I don't know whether being a confessed child killer would have made his day to day life easier,given that he has already survived one vicious attack. Going down the religious avenue he has closed off after his perception of what it did to Sheila and June. Where do you start when you go back to the beginning? My initial thoughts were that Nevill and June adopted a daughter and not a son,so in those early days it wasn't necessarily the future of the farm which was foremost in their minds.

[scipio_usmc]

I agree - it is difficult to read him from the wildly varying reports from reporters to ex-inmates and I am sure his time in the high security environment must have formed at least part of his current  personality.

his life would have been so much easier if he had admitted guilt. It would have I am sure made his prison life more tolerable as although he rightly would never have been freed he would at least have been offered some alternative programmes within the confines of his in-caseration.

I am not condoning his behavior but trying to scheme his way out keeps him mind from turning into a vegetable. Yes there are other things one can try doing to keep your mind from turning to mush but he has chosen to use his to try to get out and many prisoners do that it is not at all uncommon.   

[Jan]

He pours over documents looking for anything he can try to spin in his favor.  That is what any junior lawyer assigned to a document review for appeal purposes would do.  The only difference is junior lawyers also flag anything that harms their case not just things to spin to help it so that you can try to anticipate what the other side will use against you and try to find a way to deal with it.

On appeal there is a tougher burden because you have to raise new evidence you can't just take existing evidence and put a new spin on it.  Furthermore you need solid evidence just making an allegation won't do.

But that is exactly what you would do if you were an innocent man as well - so it proves nothing . And the next submission does include new "evidence"

Otherwise it will of course fail at the first hurdle.

[scipio_usmc]

But that is exactly what you would do if you were an innocent man as well - so it proves nothing . And the next submission does include new "evidence"

Otherwise it will of course fail at the first hurdle.

Who said that is the proof of his guilt?  He was established guilty by solid evidence.  The crap he has put forward in some instances helps to undermine his claims of innocence because it is obvious he is resorting to any nonsense he can think up like the issue of Nevill calling police.

[guest154]

Who said that is the proof of his guilt?  He was established guilty by solid evidence.  The crap he has put forward in some instances helps to undermine his claims of innocence because it is obvious he is resorting to any nonsense he can think up like the issue of Nevill calling police.

Yeah, although things like the phone call don't make him guilty they do show his true colours and in some instances the true colours of certain supporters/campaign members.

[Jan]

I don't know whether being a confessed child killer would have made his day to day life easier,given that he has already survived one vicious attack. Going down the religious avenue he has closed off after his perception of what it did to Sheila and June. Where do you start when you go back to the beginning? My initial thoughts were that Nevill and June adopted a daughter and not a son,so in those early days it wasn't necessarily the future of the farm which was foremost in their minds.

Personally I don't think the type of people who would attack a child killer in hospital would take any notice of his pleas of innocence - I am sure they have heard it all before - and everyone accuses him of being a charmer of "women" I don't think the inmates would be "taken in" by his charms.

I agree about the farm thing  - NB seemed to be a very forward thinking and  successful business man - I am not sure he would have been prejudiced towards the son taking over - it was the 80s and if Sheila had shown any inclination I am sure she would have been included in the family business.

[Steve_uk]

Who said that is the proof of his guilt?  He was established guilty by solid evidence.  The crap he has put forward in some instances helps to undermine his claims of innocence because it is obvious he is resorting to any nonsense he can think up like the issue of Nevill calling police.

But it would help if documents pertaining to his case were disclosed promptly and not written after the events they purported to describe.

[Jan]

But it would help if documents pertaining to his case were disclosed promptly and not written after the events they purported to describe.

I don't think EP did themselves any favours in their pathetic reasons for not releasing the info either.

[Steve_uk]

Personally I don't think the type of people who would attack a child killer in hospital would take any notice of his pleas of innocence - I am sure they have heard it all before - and everyone accuses him of being a charmer of "women" I don't think the inmates would be "taken in" by his charms.

I agree about the farm thing  - NB seemed to be a very forward thinking and  successful business man - I am not sure he would have been prejudiced towards the son taking over - it was the 80s and if Sheila had shown any inclination I am sure she would have been included in the family business.

I wonder how much Nevill and June really discussed their children together? They were making preparations for the future in their own way-Nevill sent Jeremy to Gresham's so that he would be apart from his future employees and June's initial thought for Sheila was secretarial college as she had been sent in her day. I don't think either private school did much for them and in the holidays there just seemed to be a void as all four kept to themselves with very little family activities to speak of.

[Jane]

I wonder how much Nevill and June really discussed their children together? They were making preparations for the future in their own way-Nevill sent Jeremy to Gresham's so that he would be apart from his future employees and June's initial thought for Sheila was secretarial college as she had been sent in her day. I don't think either private school did much for them and in the holidays there just seemed to be a void as all four kept to themselves with very little family activities to speak of.

It may not have been private school per se, Steve but boarding school, as I know from my own, certainly threw up problems for adopted children.

[Jan]

I wonder how much Nevill and June really discussed their children together? They were making preparations for the future in their own way-Nevill sent Jeremy to Gresham's so that he would be apart from his future employees and June's initial thought for Sheila was secretarial college as she had been sent in her day. I don't think either private school did much for them and in the holidays there just seemed to be a void as all four kept to themselves with very little family activities to speak of.

Probably the person who knew most about that was Junes sister and she seemed to have kept quiet about the whole thing.

[Steve_uk]

Probably the person who knew most about that was Junes sister and she seemed to have kept quiet about the whole thing.

Pamela was perplexed as the motive behind the killings. I don't wish to criticize her unduly as she did lose a sister. Colin had by far the worst loss to bear. The relatives as far as I can see lost an auntie,though again it's difficult to know exactly how they felt.