The killlers

[nugnug]

Me neither Nugs its something they would hide from the men....

and they were a bit socially conservative even for generation.

[Patti]

More falsehoods and cop-outs that seems to be all you are capable of.

1) The buckets of clothing were found in the back kitchen.  Photos among other things demonstrate this.  You intentionally ignore such so you can try to make a controversy though leaving clothing to soak in a kitchen is not that unusual anyway. 

2) You say it is odd for her to leave the packaging from the tampon in the house instead of garbage bu you refuse to offer any opinion on what is by far the most absurd claim ever made in this case.  That right there says much about you.

3) To avoid discussing the actual question you engage in your usual strawmen arguments.  The issue of Jeremy committing the crime naked or in a wetsuit was not asked of you.  Most who believe Jeremy is guilty don't believe he wore anything besides his normal clothing.  He had the ability to change his clothes at WHF after the murders because he had a room still there with clothing in it and also had the ability to change after he got home.  He also had the ability to bath at WHF or his own house.  He had no need to wear special protective clothing.  Using a bike as opposed to car to and from WHF is a matter of preference and either is possible.

Wearing protective clothing and biking to and from WHF is much more rational thought than the nonsense being spewed by Leb of using the moderator for a tampon which still would not be able to account for the blood found in the moderator.  Anyone willing to support such nonsense by refusing to dispute it is simply admitting they are too biased to face any issue in this case rationally.

 

Being rude and personal again Scipo?

Can we stick to the points raised rather than be personal please.


There are two buckets in the crime scene kitchen. How do you come to the conclusion that the bloodied clothes were in the back kitchen for there are buckets in both. Its irrelevant surely which kitchen the clothes were soaking, the point of argument is whether they had been left soaking before or after June went to bed, the same applies to the tampon holder....I suppose even in hindsight we cannot say they were or were not.  What we are discussing is whether or not June would have allowed a tampon holder in her laying about in her living room, secondly would she have left buckets with blood stained knickers in full view of the men in the house ie Jeremy, Nevill and the children not to mention any male visitors like workmen on the farm etc. 

[Jane]

No one yet seems to have ascertained if the tampon applicator had been used. They ARE made to be disposable and once used for the intended purpose can be flushed down the loo, be it mains sewage or cesspit. Whilst I don't see Sheila wielding a rifle in one hand and holding a tampon applicator in the other it MIGHT be possible that whilst she was in the loo she heard noises which disturbed her and forgot to flush it.

[scipio_usmc]

The most amazing thing to me is how fast people forget facts established on this very board.  It seems that instead of knowledge compounding it vanishes as soon as people abandon a thread so hey can revert to their biased agenda instead of applying the knowledge going forward.

I saw one thread that had photos taken by police on the day of the murders which showed the buckets in the scullery AKA back kitchen.  It was established that this is where the buckets were at the time of the murders not in the main kitchen.  Furthermore numerous threads quote from various witness statements about them being in the scullery including the housekeeper.  She was asked to look at the photo police took of the buckets and she identified them as normally being kept in that room.

 

She also noted that these buckets were used for soaking clothes before being placed in the washing machine.  She said that June soaked clothing in there but she never knew her to soak her panties before washing them.  She was too old to have a period so that explains why she would never need to.  In contrast Sheila did and Sheila was known to soak her panties in buckets left in the kitchen:



People seem to intentionally ignore the evidence to try to create something out of nothing.

Of course these same people ignore that someone who decided to kill her kids and commit suicide would not bother soaking her children's dirty clothes or her panties because clothing is of no use to the dead so she would have had no reason to bother.

No rational person would suggest the soaking clothing was in any way connected to the murders or of any relevance.

Isn't it funny how those trying to create controversy out of nothing are too cowardly or too biased to comment on the absurd suggestion that Sheila used the moderator as a tampon.  If such were suggested in any context other than one supportive of Jeremy the same people expressing no comment would be all over it like flies on stink.

 

[Stephanie]

The most amazing thing to me is how fast people forget facts established on this very board.  It seems that instead of knowledge compounding it vanishes as soon as people abandon a thread so hey can revert to their biased agenda instead of applying the knowledge going forward.

Isn't that what people like JB rely on. Isn't that why he still attempts to play the criminal justice system? He's the puppet master pulling the strings of his unsuspecting victims. He knows he can rely on the bias, motivation, personality and agendas of others. Especially empaths and apaths.

[scipio_usmc]

Being rude and personal again Scipo?

Can we stick to the points raised rather than be personal please.


There are two buckets in the crime scene kitchen. How do you come to the conclusion that the bloodied clothes were in the back kitchen for there are buckets in both. Its irrelevant surely which kitchen the clothes were soaking, the point of argument is whether they had been left soaking before or after June went to bed, the same applies to the tampon holder....I suppose even in hindsight we cannot say they were or were not.  What we are discussing is whether or not June would have allowed a tampon holder in her laying about in her living room, secondly would she have left buckets with blood stained knickers in full view of the men in the house ie Jeremy, Nevill and the children not to mention any male visitors like workmen on the farm etc. 

Because there was a thread on this board that debated this very issue which showed the photos of the buckets being in the scullery and quoted from witness statements like the housekeeper noting the buckets were normally in the room they were photographed in.

Since the housekeeper admitted that Sheila had left laundry to soak in the kitchen in the past and she was aware Sheila would do this, that means the notion that June would immediately move the buckets is not necessarily true.  Even if they had been in the main kitchen instead of back kitchen would not help establish she did so after June went to bed.  Obviously the only way the housekeeper would be aware of Sheila soaking clothing in the kitchen would be if such were left there.

The housekeeper said they were not there when she left Monday afternoon so either were left to soak Monday evening or sometime on Tuesday.  Obviously the panties would be left to soak as soon as she could take them off. Similarly her son's dirty clothes would be soaked upon seeing them stained.  She would not wait until the middle of the night then decide to go soak her panties and son's clothing.

The most amusing thing is people constantly ask me how I became so familiar with the facts of this case.  Outside of the 2002 COA decision most of my knowledge comes from documents, photos and debates on this site.  I retain and apply what is learned going forward as opposed to erasing everything from my memory and starting from a blank slate each time I engage in a new debate.

 

[Patti]

Thanks Scip

The buckets in the crime scene kitchen were green.  The one in view in back kitchen looks like a metal one, but obviously we can't see round the corner.

[Stephanie]

The most amusing thing is people constantly ask me how I became so familiar with the facts of this case.  Outside of the 2002 COA decision most of my knowledge comes from documents, photos and debates on this site.  I retain and apply what is learned going forward as opposed to erasing everything from my memory and starting from a blank slate each time I engage in a new debate.

People lose focus. They get sucked into the motivations of others for amusement. They don't want to see what is staring them in the face. To do so would put an end to what motivates them.

[scipio_usmc]

Isn't that what people like JB rely on. Isn't that why he still attempts to play the criminal justice system? He's the puppet master pulling the strings of his unsuspecting victims. He knows he can rely on the bias, motivation, personality and agendas of others.

He is opportunistic in using such to his advantage with his supporters but they allow it and even run further than he expects them to and that still only goes so far.  That doesn't translate into the legal arena.  Many of his supporters keep raising allegations disproved long ago that Jeremy isn't even pushing anymore. A puppetmaster has control over his puppets I don't see Jeremy as having much control over those who have decided to advance his cause if anything a lot of them use his cause as part of a larger agenda they have.

He is trying to play the criminal justice system because he wants out of jail and hopes that he can find some spin that will result in his release.  What he can use on the public to try to garner supports can't necessarily be used to try to secure his release from the courts though.  There is a dichotomy between the legal team and the campaign team. 



 

[Stephanie]

He is opportunistic in using such to his advantage with his supporters but they allow it and even run further than he expects them to and that still only goes so far.  That doesn't translate into the legal arena.  Many of his supporters keep raising allegations disproved long ago that Jeremy isn't even pushing anymore. A puppetmaster has control over his puppets I don't see Jeremy as having much control over those who have decided to advance his cause if anything a lot of them use his cause as part of a larger agenda they have.

He is trying to play the criminal justice system because he wants out of jail and hopes that he can find some spin that will result in his release.  What he can use on the public to try to garner supports can't necessarily be used to try to secure his release from the courts though.  There is a dichotomy between the legal team and the campaign team.

I agree, and the dichotomy between his legal team and supporters must really frustrate him.

Deviant is due out in a few months apparently. It will be interesting to watch behaviours following it's release.

[susan]

nugnug when I said side tracked I meant she wandered off to do something else and forgot the tampon holder if indeed it was found in the lounge. It is of no importance really just strange IMO.

[nugnug]

The most amazing thing to me is how fast people forget facts established on this very board.  It seems that instead of knowledge compounding it vanishes as soon as people abandon a thread so hey can revert to their biased agenda instead of applying the knowledge going forward.

I saw one thread that had photos taken by police on the day of the murders which showed the buckets in the scullery AKA back kitchen.  It was established that this is where the buckets were at the time of the murders not in the main kitchen.  Furthermore numerous threads quote from various witness statements about them being in the scullery including the housekeeper.  She was asked to look at the photo police took of the buckets and she identified them as normally being kept in that room.

 

She also noted that these buckets were used for soaking clothes before being placed in the washing machine.  She said that June soaked clothing in there but she never knew her to soak her panties before washing them.  She was too old to have a period so that explains why she would never need to.  In contrast Sheila did and Sheila was known to soak her panties in buckets left in the kitchen:



People seem to intentionally ignore the evidence to try to create something out of nothing.

Of course these same people ignore that someone who decided to kill her kids and commit suicide would not bother soaking her children's dirty clothes or her panties because clothing is of no use to the dead so she would have had no reason to bother.

No rational person would suggest the soaking clothing was in any way connected to the murders or of any relevance.

Isn't it funny how those trying to create controversy out of nothing are too cowardly or too biased to comment on the absurd suggestion that Sheila used the moderator as a tampon.  If such were suggested in any context other than one supportive of Jeremy the same people expressing no comment would be all over it like flies on stink.

people in acute states of psychosis do all sorts of strange things it cant be said that she wouldn't wash the clothes.

[Stephanie]

People lose focus. They get sucked into the motivations of others for amusement. They don't want to see what is staring them in the face. To do so would put an end to what motivates them.

And the case doesn't affect most of them personally, it doesn't interfere with their every day lives, so expediency is of no great importance.

[nugnug]

No one yet seems to have ascertained if the tampon applicator had been used. They ARE made to be disposable and once used for the intended purpose can be flushed down the loo, be it mains sewage or cesspit. Whilst I don't see Sheila wielding a rifle in one hand and holding a tampon applicator in the other it MIGHT be possible that whilst she was in the loo she heard noises which disturbed her and forgot to flush it.

no i dont see her doing that ethere.

[nugnug]

nugnug when I said side tracked I meant she wandered off to do something else and forgot the tampon holder if indeed it was found in the lounge. It is of no importance really just strange IMO.

sounds like a reasnable explantion.