The killlers

[Alias]

  Some people accept it Alias. Had Jeremy committed the murders, I agree that once the need for a second shot arose, then he would surely have felt that it would not be possible to pass off Sheila's murder as suicide. It is argued that because two shot suicides are viable and do indeed happen then Jeremy would have felt no need to change the plan. Even if Jeremy had been aware of this, which I think unlikely, he could not be confident that Sheila's death would easily be accepted as such.
     This alongside the fact that he also messed up by using the silencer, which he discovered was too long for Sheila to have committed suicide, so he had to replace it in the gun cupboard after murdering Sheila. Oddly he didn't discover the fact that the silencer was too long until after the second fatal shot. There are two, rather than one, massive blunders in the staged suicide scenario and yet supposedly neither of these blunders made Jeremy change course.
     Anyway after putting the silencer back, which was too long, he coolly invents a phone call and convinces Essex Police and armed units to remain outside for hours with his cunning, or so we are led to believe.
      You are right Alias, this part of the prosecution case sounds so unlikely that it merits scrutiny.

Thank you gringo, I am glad that at least one can see where I am coming from - and you put it much better than I can do!

[maggie]

Thank you gringo, I am glad that at least one can see where I am coming from - and you put it much better than I can do!

I can see where you're coming from alias. To go along with the guilters explanations there seems to be a need for a leap of faith at times. 

[Alias]

I can see where you're coming from alias. To go along with the guilters explanations there seems to be a need for a leap of faith at times.

I think so too.

[Jane]

I can see where you're coming from alias. To go along with the guilters explanations there seems to be a need for a leap of faith at times.

As does the thought of Sheila shooting herself twice with a weapon which was too long.

[guest154]

As does the thought of Sheila shooting herself twice with a weapon which was too long.

And a full conspiracy of the police/relatives and lab technicians.

[gringo]

Thank you gringo, I am glad that at least one can see where I am coming from - and you put it much better than I can do!

   You put it perfectly clearly yourself, Alias. I am sure there are more than me who can see exactly where you are coming from despite the misrepresentations of your views on here.

[Jane]

And a full conspiracy of the police/relatives and lab technicians.

..........Judge, jury and Uncle Tom Cobblers and all

[gringo]

As does the thought of Sheila shooting herself twice with a weapon which was too long.

  As does the thought of Jeremy not discovering it was too long after the first shot and Jeremy shooting Sheila with a weapon that too long, twice.

[Jane]

  As does the thought of Jeremy not discovering it was too long after the first shot and Jeremy shooting Sheila with a weapon that too long, twice.

Like I said, he hadn't done it before so it was a question of learning as he went. There may have been a lot that he'd have done differently had he had time over again...................trouble was, he didn't.

[Alias]

Like I said, he hadn't done it before so it was a question of learning as he went. There may have been a lot that he'd have done differently had he had time over again...................trouble was, he didn't.

You said you changed your stance because you felt you were making excuses for Jeremy. Isn´t this an example of an excuse, just "mirrored"?

[Jane]

You said you changed your stance because you felt you were making excuses for Jeremy. Isn´t this an example of an excuse, just "mirrored"?

It may be how you see see it but I'm fully aware that he didn't just walk in, do the deed, and walk out. To suggest such and to insinuate that there were no problems would be to live in La La Land.

[gringo]

Like I said, he hadn't done it before so it was a question of learning as he went. There may have been a lot that he'd have done differently had he had time over again...................trouble was, he didn't.

   But surely he would have learnt that the gun with silencer was too long after the first failed shot.
   I hear what you are saying. In the heat of the moment mistakes would be made and there is no template to follow. It just seems a stretch too far that after these blunders he would replace the silencer and then invent the phone call, which would obviously implicate himself if the silencer was discovered.
   He could not be wholly confident that the suicide of Sheila would be accepted after messing up so spectacularly, not only needing two shots but also using a silencer for both shots despite it being too long. But we are to believe that he went ahead with a plan that pointed to his guilt the moment it was discovered that Sheila was murdered.
   As a matter of interest, April, do you believe in the silencer evidence or do you believe it fabricated?
   I ask not to argue over the silencer evidence on this thread but as a matter of interest. It is possible to believe that the silencer evidence is fabricated and that Jeremy is guilty obviously, as I am aware that some do.
     
     

[Caroline]

  Some people accept it Alias. Had Jeremy committed the murders, I agree that once the need for a second shot arose, then he would surely have felt that it would not be possible to pass off Sheila's murder as suicide. It is argued that because two shot suicides are viable and do indeed happen then Jeremy would have felt no need to change the plan. Even if Jeremy had been aware of this, which I think unlikely, he could not be confident that Sheila's death would easily be accepted as such.
     This alongside the fact that he also messed up by using the silencer, which he discovered was too long for Sheila to have committed suicide, so he had to replace it in the gun cupboard after murdering Sheila. Oddly he didn't discover the fact that the silencer was too long until after the second fatal shot. There are two, rather than one, massive blunders in the staged suicide scenario and yet supposedly neither of these blunders made Jeremy change course.
     Anyway after putting the silencer back, which was too long, he coolly invents a phone call and convinces Essex Police and armed units to remain outside for hours with his cunning, or so we are led to believe.
      You are right Alias, this part of the prosecution case sounds so unlikely that it merits scrutiny.

Jeremy had the phone call from Nevill as a means of distancing himself from the scene and he didn't have to explain the two shots to Sheila's throat once they bought his story and initially, they did.

Don't believe the silencer was used.

He didn't convince them to stay outside - it's police procedure not to storm in until they deem it fit to do so.

[Patti]

  Some people accept it Alias. Had Jeremy committed the murders, I agree that once the need for a second shot arose, then he would surely have felt that it would not be possible to pass off Sheila's murder as suicide. It is argued that because two shot suicides are viable and do indeed happen then Jeremy would have felt no need to change the plan. Even if Jeremy had been aware of this, which I think unlikely, he could not be confident that Sheila's death would easily be accepted as such.
     This alongside the fact that he also messed up by using the silencer, which he discovered was too long for Sheila to have committed suicide, so he had to replace it in the gun cupboard after murdering Sheila. Oddly he didn't discover the fact that the silencer was too long until after the second fatal shot. There are two, rather than one, massive blunders in the staged suicide scenario and yet supposedly neither of these blunders made Jeremy change course.
     Anyway after putting the silencer back, which was too long, he coolly invents a phone call and convinces Essex Police and armed units to remain outside for hours with his cunning, or so we are led to believe.
      You are right Alias, this part of the prosecution case sounds so unlikely that it merits scrutiny.

I think that is a very good point Gringo one that has never been discussed thoroughly. We are talking 1985 before the google age....Jeremy could not have been aware that a two shot suicide would have been accepted.  To try to pass it off as a suicide would have been rather iffy...IMO....Great post BTW...

[Patti]

Jeremy had the phone call from Nevill as a means of distancing himself from the scene and he didn't have to explain the two shots to Sheila's throat once they bought his story and initially, they did.

Don't believe the silencer was used.

He didn't convince them to stay outside - it's police procedure not to storm in until they deem it fit to do so.

But did he know at the time he did not have to explain the two shots? Why did the phone call from NB omit him from this explanation?