Everyone caught by surprise - by an unknown female ?

[lookout]

Playing Devil's Advocate doesn't do it for me,Adam. It's not your style when you KNOW that Jeremy is guilty. There was NO psychopath and NO burglar.! It was a random domestic which WOULDN'T have happened if Sheila hadn't been there.Simple as that.

[lookout]

According to some of the " boffins " on here,they ALL died at the same time ?

Even the prosecution had argued that Sheila had died between midnight and 3am.?

[Adam]

But Jeremy said Neville may have said 'she'. And other people said a guilty Jeremy would never have phoned the police.

There is no question that everyone at WHF was caught by surprise. Which rules out Sheila. And Jeremy was asleep in his cottage.

The only way everyone could be caught by surprise was by a female burglar/random psychopath.

[nugnug]

Even the prosecution had argued that Sheila had died between midnight and 3am.?

no time of death was given so we dont know when they died.

[lookout]

no time of death was given so we dont know when they died.

Exactly,nugs.Which has been my argument all along. No time of death given.
 Because of it being such a big case at the time,a pathologist SHOULD have been sent to WHF in order to have given appx times of death. These are my thoughts anyway.

[nugnug]

it was somtime after they had got ready for bed but nobody is certan what time they went to bed.

[lookout]

I really don't think that Neville went to bed,or even got as far as the bedroom itself. He was late finishing in the fields,then he took the dogs out,came back,probably had a drink of tea and a smoke,then showered and put his pyjamas on,so it would have been quite late/early morning when Sheila kicked off,if she hadn't already killed her mother and the twins.
It's the way I see it. The three upstairs could quite possibly have been killed while Neville was out with the dogs,so that Sheila only had to contend with her father,and with a few rapid shots would have put him out of action against trying to fight back.

[scipio_usmc]

Jeremy told the police Neville may have said 'She' rather than 'Sheila' on the phone. This was after the police started speaking about Sheila being shot twice.

The theory that a female burglar or random psychopath had got into WHF, massacred everyone, framed Sheila and exited through the kitchen window, has been shot down before.

However there is no doubt everyone was caught by surprise -

Neville:

In his PJ's and bare footed. Obviously no time to dress or put slippers on. And no time to arm himself. He only had time to phone Jeremy. Before his 8 shots and brutal beating.

Everything suggests he got had just got out of bed.

June:

Fast asleep and shot in bed. She wasn't even given the chance to be caught by surprise.

Sheila:

In her nightie and barefooted so almost certainly had just got out of bed. Only time to go to her parents bedroom and retreat to the far corner.

Nicolas/Daniel:

Shot in bed while asleep.


Jeremy didn't commit the massacre. He has always said he was in bed when Neville called him. But Sheila has been ruled out as well.

There is no doubt everyone was caught by surprise, or killed before being given the chance to be caught by surprise. Perhaps the massacre was carried out by a female burglar or psychopath.

The "she" that Jeremy spoke of referred to either June or Sheila.  He said he wasn't sure which one Nevill meant and he said such when they told him Sheila could not have done it in which case he said it must have meant June.

Jeremy never suggested some third party female burglar.

[scipio_usmc]

No signs of defence marks on Jeremy either,where 3 adults would have reached out at him to take the rifle from him.? This was purely an inside" job ",where there was no escape.

What marks would be left on Jeremy?  He was wearing shoes and gloves, the only damage the killer would have suffered would have been to his/her hands and feet and only if not wearing gloves and shoes. Sheila was barefoot and there were no bloody gloves found at the scene that she could have been wearing.   

[lookout]

What marks would be left on Jeremy?  He was wearing shoes and gloves, the only damage the killer would have suffered would have been to his/her hands and feet and only if not wearing gloves and shoes. Sheila was barefoot and there were no bloody gloves found at the scene that she could have been wearing.

Silly me,he was wearing a balaclava as well which wouldn't have shown scratches to his face and neck as Sheila landed out at him in defence of her boys.

[scipio_usmc]

Silly me,he was wearing a balaclava as well which wouldn't have shown scratches to his face and neck as Sheila landed out at him in defence of her boys.

What scratches would be on Jeremy's face?  He had a long rifle aimed at his victims. Did they have arms like plasticman? Only with the gun empty could someone try to safely disarm him and that means only Nevill.  Nevill was the only one who faced him when the gun was empty but had already been shot 4 times before the gun was empty and he tried to disarm Jeremy by trying to take the rifle away not scratching Jeremy like a girl does.  His efforts to strip Jeremy of the weapon failed as Jeremy bludgeoned him with it.   

[lookout]

What scratches would be on Jeremy's face?  He had a long rifle aimed at his victims. Did they have arms like plasticman? Only with the gun empty could someone try to safely disarm him and that means only Nevill.  Nevill was the only one who faced him when the gun was empty but had already been shot 4 times before the gun was empty and he tried to disarm Jeremy by trying to take the rifle away not scratching Jeremy like a girl does.  His efforts to strip Jeremy of the weapon failed as Jeremy bludgeoned him with it.   

Yes,I'm sure Sheila would have just stood back and watched while her children were being shot. The same as she herself lay down gracefully ready to be shot too.

[scipio_usmc]

Yes,I'm sure Sheila would have just stood back and watched while her children were being shot. The same as she herself lay down gracefully ready to be shot too.

They were shot in a different room than her so obviously were not shot in her presence. They were either shot before her while she was still in her room or after her.  Jeremy could have told her to obey his commands or he would kill them as well.  Your presumption he would have to have scratches is nonsense which you make up just to try to pretend Jeremy is innocent. Never do you actually look at the evidence and facts you instead choose to look at made up things by people who defend Jeremy and to make up some of your own as well to come to his defense.

The one more likely for people to try to disarm and to oppose was Sheila.  She didn't ever use the weapon before and was weaker than Jeremy so much easier to disarm and challenge than he would be.  So if the argument is that the killer would have to have wounds then that means Sheila would have to have wounds. She didn't- neither she nor Jeremy had any wounds which means quite clearly the killer wasn't wounded. 

The only way for the killer not to have wounded feet would be if the killer had been wearing shoes and not to have a cut hand from the stock of the weapon breaking would be if the killer had been wearing gloves (gloves are the only way no prints of the killer would be found in the blood that was on the weapon as well).  A killer with long nails using the rifle to bludgeon someone so forcefully that the stock broke would surely have damaged their nails in the process as well. 

You and other Jeremy supporters ignore these things because you want to believe Jeremy is innocent. Ignoring them doesn't refute them which is what is required to establish his innocence. Establishing his innocence is the only way to convince objective rational people of his innocence and thus the only way to get him released from prison. 

[lookout]

And where do you get all your " accurate " information from ?? Where ? Were you there,or know someone who was ? If not,then stop casting aspersions at my posts.

I,at least,know of someone who KNOWS an officer who was at the scene. Do you ?

[Adam]

I wonder who the mystery female burglar/psychopath was ?

The evidence has ruled out Sheila and Jeremy says he was at home when Neville phoned him.

Whoever she was, she choose the perfect time. Everyone asleep in their PJ's and nighties.