Author Topic: Do any former inmantes have any information about bamber?  (Read 27097 times)

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Offline Caroline

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Re: Do any former inmantes have any information about bamber?
« Reply #840 on: April 03, 2015, 06:46:PM »
I am not other poster, I have my own boundaries when it comes to what I tolerate from other people.
The other mods didn´t "buddy up" with the man, I don´t care about what stance people have, really I don´t - if they are not being condescendent that is.

No one buddied up with anyone - that was in your imagination. If I agreed with something Scipio said, then I have every right to say so. I didn't and don't agree with his style of posting and have made that CLEAR. You have chosen to hold a grudge about what you THINK occurred and that's your concern.
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Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: Do any former inmantes have any information about bamber?
« Reply #841 on: April 03, 2015, 06:48:PM »
To tell you the truth, skip´s post was very hurtful to me (btw, why include Lookout - just a jab out of the blue), and it was doubly hurtful that the moderators saw it as just fine and even buddied up with the abuser.
Ridiculous?

You constantly denigrated my posts and periodically said you refused to read what I wrote because my arguments were contradictory and made no sense.

My rebuttal to such was to note you lost any debates we engaged in and that was why you refused to read them it was simply a cop-out on your part.  You could not refute my posts so claimed you refused to read them and this was your way of saying you were not refuting my posts because you didn't even know what I was claiming.

Like some other people you have decided you want to believe Jeremy is innocent no matter what the evidence actually demonstrates.  You decided that he would never frame it as a suicide once he had to fire the second shot into Sheila and instead would have failed to stage the seen and just have run away from it.  That though would for sure have resulted in the police knocking on his door because he is the only one with a motive to execute the family and it plainly was an execution this could not be hidden so he framed it as an execution by Sheila.  You base your beliefs of whether he is guilty or innocent on subjective things that you believe he would have done as opposed to based on the relevant evidence that establishes what happened.  Lookout and many others do the same thing.

Anytime your claims are called out you have a problem with it because you are invested emotionally in your arguments.  Some of your arguments are constructed just to help support what you want to assert happened including the notion Sheila had insomnia though that wasn't the case at all.  he evidence was the opposite that she was constantly tired and over sedated.  Did that change your mind about your position?  No because your position wasn't driven by the things you kept raising you simply were looking for fodder to try to justify to others what you wanted to believe.

That is the big difference.  My positions are the ones that convince me of Jeremy's guilt.  I didn't decide he was guilty then just look for things to use to try to justify my position to others.  The things I discuss is the central evidence in the case that was used to convict Jeremy because that is what matters in assessing guilt or innocence.

Despite posts that clearly demonstrated your bias you kept insisting you were on the fence much like Graham did. This past week you seem to have finally admitted your real stance.  Your real stance was known your position was constantly betrayed by your posts so it was pointless even trying to conceal it and try top pretend you were on the fence.  I am glad that charade is over.

Some people like to claim they are fence sitters because they think it gives them more authority because they claim to be objective.  Others do so in order to maintain friendships because the reality is that a lot of people get nasty with those who have different views than theirs.

I see plenty of nasty comments and pettiness from people here it is funny watching others pretend they are above the fray. 

If my comments hurt people it is because those comments hit so close to home and people don't like thinking about the implications.

Attacks on me that are invalid roll right off my back because invalid attacks don't matter.  Those that hit close to home are the ones that strike a chord.

 
   
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline Stephanie

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Re: Do any former inmantes have any information about bamber?
« Reply #842 on: April 03, 2015, 06:53:PM »
Psychopaths also rely on something called gas lighting. I've seen posters allude to it but I don't think it's been explored here yet?

It is yet another useful manipulation tactic they use in order for their lies to remain hidden and for attention to be diverted away from them.

"Given that gaslighting is actually very common I feel it should be borne in mind that most of the time it is done in ignorance, unconsciously and is not done by malicious intent or design. There are actually very few people who consciously set about trying to undermine others. In most relationships and in most situations with most people you can put a stop to it quite quickly by being assertive, batting back the comments made, dismissing harmful ones, clearing the air or rising above them. No one can bully you if you do not react to them. Easier said than done I know. There are ways to combat it though e.g. changing the situation by changing your responses or walking away. Assertiveness techniques can help enormously and it can be taught and learnt. Ask your GP to be sure of a reputable trainer or counsellor."

http://mindwalking-ajournalofdiscovery.blogspot.co.uk/2012/02/gaslighting.html
« Last Edit: April 03, 2015, 06:56:PM by stephanie hall »
“The only people who are mad at you for telling the truth are those people who are living a lie. Keep telling the truth"

Offline Jane

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Re: Do any former inmantes have any information about bamber?
« Reply #843 on: April 03, 2015, 06:54:PM »
You have been reported to the moderator.

NGB is no doubt responding to my question, before responding to my report.

Well Grahame would be abusive to me and Scipio. He also said 'f--- off b----' to you after you changed stance.

Scipio has never been abusive to me. And has praised some of my threads.

It's no secret Jan, Lookout, Alias  yourself and April have been abusive to me. Harters even created a thread on me.


What will you do if every poster here tells you "YOU'RE AN IDIOT"?

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: Do any former inmantes have any information about bamber?
« Reply #844 on: April 03, 2015, 06:58:PM »
Can you tell me what's wrong with it.

Scipio, Caroline, April and Grahame will be the first to admit they have been abusive on a regular basis on here. Grahame was easily the most abusive poster on here, he will be the first to agree, partly because he was never banned.

The only posts I would characterize as abusive are those where people were called assholes, scubags, fukkers, told to f off and so forth.  Those go beyond the pale but simply embarrass the person who resorted to such in place of debating the facts or issues.  Inherent in resorting to cursing is the inability to debate the issues and a signal the person lost the debate. 

Your goal is beyond simply debating the facts and issues you want to get all Jeremy supporters to change their minds and believe he is guilty and end up causing a lot of your own problems in the process. You also want credit for any changes in beliefs that do happen. The debate is not its own reward, you want glory.

Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline Patti

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Re: Do any former inmantes have any information about bamber?
« Reply #845 on: April 03, 2015, 07:01:PM »
Can we get back on thread please otherwise the thread will be locked. I don't like having to do this, but its paramount that we stop heckling at each other it spoils the debate of the thread.

If anyone has a compliant then please send that complaint to all the moderators not just myself.

Thanks.

Offline Stephanie

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Re: Do any former inmantes have any information about bamber?
« Reply #846 on: April 03, 2015, 07:03:PM »
"Gaslighting is just one of the many weapons in the arsenal of personalities hell-bent on having their way, even if it means doing so by subtle and covert means of conning others. One of the most important points I make in all my articles, books, and other writings about the narcissistic and most especially, the aggressive personalities, is that they will do whatever it takes to secure and maintain a position of advantage over others. And some of the most effective means at their disposal are tactics that conceal their malevolent intent while simultaneously prompting their “target” to accede to their desires. I outline the most common ones covertly aggressive folks use to manipulate others in my book In Sheep’s Clothing [Amazon-US | Amazon-UK]. But it would be virtually impossible to fully list all of the various tactics expert manipulators use.

http://counsellingresource.com/features/2011/11/08/gaslighting/
“The only people who are mad at you for telling the truth are those people who are living a lie. Keep telling the truth"

Offline Caroline

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Re: Do any former inmantes have any information about bamber?
« Reply #847 on: April 03, 2015, 07:04:PM »
Can you tell me what's wrong with it.

Scipio, Caroline, April and Grahame will be the first to admit they have been abusive on a regular basis on here. Grahame was easily the most abusive poster on here, he will be the first to agree, partly because he was never banned.

I would be the first to say you are a shit stirrer if that helps?  ???  ;D
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Offline Caroline

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Re: Do any former inmantes have any information about bamber?
« Reply #848 on: April 03, 2015, 07:05:PM »
Can we get back on thread please otherwise the thread will be locked. I don't like having to do this, but its paramount that we stop heckling at each other it spoils the debate of the thread.

If anyone has a compliant then please send that complaint to all the moderators not just myself.

Thanks.

I would like nothing better but second you have an opposing view, people take it personally and it's getting worse.
Few people have the imagination for reality

Offline Stephanie

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Re: Do any former inmantes have any information about bamber?
« Reply #849 on: April 03, 2015, 07:09:PM »
How Psychopaths manipulate and Deceive -

"We’ve all been burned by psychopaths largely because we fell for their lies and their lines.  The better informed people are with their techniques of deception, the more they can recognize them and protect themselves against them. A psychopath gets you within his power largely through deception. As Cleckley noted in The Mask of Sanity, the main reason why people are easily taken in by their lies is not because the lies themselves are that convincing, but because of the psychopaths’ effective rhetorical strategies. What are those?
1. Glibness and Charm. We’ve already seen that these are two of the main personality traits of psychopaths. They know how to use them to their advantage. Psychopaths lie very easily and in a smooth manner. They often pass lie detector tests as well because such tests register emotion, not deception. Psychopaths tend to remain cool under pressure. They can tell you the most implausible stories–such as when they get a call from their girlfriend but tell you that it’s a random call from a jailbird–but do it so matter-of-factly that it makes you want to believe them. Sometimes they distract you from the content of their words with their charm. They look at you lovingly, stroke your hair or your arm and punctuate their speech with kisses, caresses and tender words, so that you’re mesmerized by them instead of focusing on what they’re actually saying.
2. Analogies and Metaphors. Because their facts are so often fabrications, psychopaths often rely upon analogies and metaphors to support their false or manipulative statements. For instance, if they wish to persuade you to cheat on your husband or significant other, they may present their case in the form of an analogy. They may ask you to think of the cheating (or breaking up with your current partner) as a parent who is sparing his drafted child greater harm by breaking his leg to save him from going to war. This analogy doesn’t work at all, of course, if you stop and think about it. Your significant other isn’t drafted to be dumped for a psychopath. You’re not sparing him any pain by breaking his leg or, in this case, his heart. You’re only giving credit to the psychopath’s sophistry and misuse of analogy to play right into his hands, thus hurting both yourself and your spouse.
3. Slander. A psychopath often slanders others, to discredit them and invalidate their truth claims. He projects his faults and misdeeds upon those he hurts. To establish credibility, he often maligns his wife or girlfriend, attributing the failure of his relationship to her faults or misdeeds rather than his own.
4. Circumlocution. When you ask a psychopath a straightforward question that requires a straightforward answer, he usually goes round and round in circles or talks about something else altogether. For instance, when you ask him where he was on the previous night, sometimes he lies. At other times, he tries to divert you by bringing up another subject. He may also use flattery, such as saying how sexy your voice sounds and how much you turn him on. Such distractions are intended to cloud your reasoning and lead you to forget your original question.
5. Evasion. Relatedly, psychopaths can be very evasive. When you ask a psychopath a specific question, he will sometimes answer in general terms, talking about humanity, or men, or women, or whatever: anything but his own self and actions, which is what you were inquiring about in the first place.
6. Pointing Fingers at Others. When you accuse a psychopath of wrongdoing, he’s likely to tell you that another person is just as bad as him or that humanity in general is. The first point may or may not be true. At any rate, it’s irrelevant. So what if person x, y or z–say, one of the psychopath’s friends or girlfriends–has done similarly harmful things or manifests some of his bad qualities? The most relevant point to you, if you’re the psychopath’s partner, should be how he behaves and what his actions say about him. The second point is patently false. All human beings have flaws, of course. But we don’t all suffer from an incurable personality disorder. If you have any doubts about that, then you should research the matter. Google his symptoms, look up psychopathy and see if all or even most of the people you know exhibit them. Of course, even normal individuals can sometimes be manipulative, can sometimes lie and can sometimes cheat. But that doesn’t make our actions comparable to the magnitude of remorseless deceit, manipulation and destruction that psychopaths are capable of. Furthermore, most of us, whatever our flaws, care about others.
7. Fabrication of Details. In The Postmodern Condition, Jean-François Lyotard shows how offering a lot of details makes a lie sound much more plausible. When you give a vague answer, your interlocutor is more likely to sense evasion and pursue her inquiries. But when you present fabricated details–such as when you are with your girlfriend in a hotel room but tell your wife that you were with your male buddy named X, at a Chinese restaurant named Y and ate General Gao chicken and rice which cost a mere $ 5 at a restaurant and discussed your buddy’s troubles with his girlfriend, who has left him because he cheated too much on her–your wife’s more likely to believe your elaborate fiction. Because they excel at improvisation, psychopaths are excellent fabricators of details. Even novelists have reason to envy their ability to make up false but believable “facts” on the spot.
8. Playing upon your Emotions. Very often, when confronted with alternative accounts of what happened, psychopaths play upon your emotions. For example, if his girlfriend compares notes with the wife, a psychopath is likely to ask his wife: “Who are you going to believe? Me or her?” This reestablishes complicity with the wife against the girlfriend, testing the wife’s love and loyalty to him. It also functions as a subterfuge. That way he doesn’t have to address the information offered by the other source. To anybody whose judgment remains unclouded by the manipulations of a psychopath, the answer should be quite obvious. Just about any person, even your garden-variety cheater and liar, is far more credible than a psychopath. But to a woman whose life and emotions are wrapped around the psychopath, the answer is likely to be that she prefers to believe him over his girlfriend or anybody else for that matter. Even in such a hopeless situation–if a psychopath’s partner doesn’t want to face the truth about him–it’s still important to share information with her. Psychopaths form co-dependent, addictive bonds with their so-called “loved” ones. They’re as dangerous to their partners as any hard drug is likely to be. If their partners know about their harmful actions and about their personality disorder, then at least they’re willingly assuming the risk. Everyone has the right to make choices in life, including the very risky one of staying with a psychopath. But at least they should make informed choices, so that they know whom they’re choosing and are prepared for the negative consequences of their decision.
Deception constitutes a very entertaining game for psychopaths. They use one victim to lie to another. They use both victims to lie to a third. They spin their web of mind-control upon all those around them. They encourage antagonisms or place distance among the people they deceive, so that they won’t compare notes and discover the lies. Often they blend in aspects of the truth with the lies, to focus on that small grain of truth if they’re caught. The bottom line remains that psychopaths are malicious sophists. It really doesn’t matter how often they lie or how often they tell the truth. Psychopaths use both truth and lies instrumentally, to persuade others to accept their false and self-serving version of reality and to get them under their control. For this reason, it’s pointless to try to sort out the truth from the lies. As M. L. Gallagher, a contributor to the website lovefraud.com has eloquently remarked, psychopaths themselves are the lie. From hello to goodbye, from you’re beautiful to you’re ugly, from you’re the woman of my life to you mean nothing to me, from beginning to end, the whole relationship with a psychopath is one big lie.

https://psychopathyawareness.wordpress.com/2011/09/13/dangerous-mind-games-how-psychopaths-manipulate-and-deceive/

“The only people who are mad at you for telling the truth are those people who are living a lie. Keep telling the truth"

Offline Stephanie

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Re: Do any former inmantes have any information about bamber?
« Reply #850 on: April 03, 2015, 07:14:PM »
How Psychopaths manipulate and Deceive -

"We’ve all been burned by psychopaths largely because we fell for their lies and their lines.  The better informed people are with their techniques of deception, the more they can recognize them and protect themselves against them. A psychopath gets you within his power largely through deception. As Cleckley noted in The Mask of Sanity, the main reason why people are easily taken in by their lies is not because the lies themselves are that convincing, but because of the psychopaths’ effective rhetorical strategies. What are those?
1. Glibness and Charm. We’ve already seen that these are two of the main personality traits of psychopaths. They know how to use them to their advantage. Psychopaths lie very easily and in a smooth manner. They often pass lie detector tests as well because such tests register emotion, not deception. Psychopaths tend to remain cool under pressure. They can tell you the most implausible stories–such as when they get a call from their girlfriend but tell you that it’s a random call from a jailbird–but do it so matter-of-factly that it makes you want to believe them. Sometimes they distract you from the content of their words with their charm. They look at you lovingly, stroke your hair or your arm and punctuate their speech with kisses, caresses and tender words, so that you’re mesmerized by them instead of focusing on what they’re actually saying.
2. Analogies and Metaphors. Because their facts are so often fabrications, psychopaths often rely upon analogies and metaphors to support their false or manipulative statements. For instance, if they wish to persuade you to cheat on your husband or significant other, they may present their case in the form of an analogy. They may ask you to think of the cheating (or breaking up with your current partner) as a parent who is sparing his drafted child greater harm by breaking his leg to save him from going to war. This analogy doesn’t work at all, of course, if you stop and think about it. Your significant other isn’t drafted to be dumped for a psychopath. You’re not sparing him any pain by breaking his leg or, in this case, his heart. You’re only giving credit to the psychopath’s sophistry and misuse of analogy to play right into his hands, thus hurting both yourself and your spouse.
3. Slander. A psychopath often slanders others, to discredit them and invalidate their truth claims. He projects his faults and misdeeds upon those he hurts. To establish credibility, he often maligns his wife or girlfriend, attributing the failure of his relationship to her faults or misdeeds rather than his own.
4. Circumlocution. When you ask a psychopath a straightforward question that requires a straightforward answer, he usually goes round and round in circles or talks about something else altogether. For instance, when you ask him where he was on the previous night, sometimes he lies. At other times, he tries to divert you by bringing up another subject. He may also use flattery, such as saying how sexy your voice sounds and how much you turn him on. Such distractions are intended to cloud your reasoning and lead you to forget your original question.
5. Evasion. Relatedly, psychopaths can be very evasive. When you ask a psychopath a specific question, he will sometimes answer in general terms, talking about humanity, or men, or women, or whatever: anything but his own self and actions, which is what you were inquiring about in the first place.
6. Pointing Fingers at Others. When you accuse a psychopath of wrongdoing, he’s likely to tell you that another person is just as bad as him or that humanity in general is. The first point may or may not be true. At any rate, it’s irrelevant. So what if person x, y or z–say, one of the psychopath’s friends or girlfriends–has done similarly harmful things or manifests some of his bad qualities? The most relevant point to you, if you’re the psychopath’s partner, should be how he behaves and what his actions say about him. The second point is patently false. All human beings have flaws, of course. But we don’t all suffer from an incurable personality disorder. If you have any doubts about that, then you should research the matter. Google his symptoms, look up psychopathy and see if all or even most of the people you know exhibit them. Of course, even normal individuals can sometimes be manipulative, can sometimes lie and can sometimes cheat. But that doesn’t make our actions comparable to the magnitude of remorseless deceit, manipulation and destruction that psychopaths are capable of. Furthermore, most of us, whatever our flaws, care about others.
7. Fabrication of Details. In The Postmodern Condition, Jean-François Lyotard shows how offering a lot of details makes a lie sound much more plausible. When you give a vague answer, your interlocutor is more likely to sense evasion and pursue her inquiries. But when you present fabricated details–such as when you are with your girlfriend in a hotel room but tell your wife that you were with your male buddy named X, at a Chinese restaurant named Y and ate General Gao chicken and rice which cost a mere $ 5 at a restaurant and discussed your buddy’s troubles with his girlfriend, who has left him because he cheated too much on her–your wife’s more likely to believe your elaborate fiction. Because they excel at improvisation, psychopaths are excellent fabricators of details. Even novelists have reason to envy their ability to make up false but believable “facts” on the spot.
8. Playing upon your Emotions. Very often, when confronted with alternative accounts of what happened, psychopaths play upon your emotions. For example, if his girlfriend compares notes with the wife, a psychopath is likely to ask his wife: “Who are you going to believe? Me or her?” This reestablishes complicity with the wife against the girlfriend, testing the wife’s love and loyalty to him. It also functions as a subterfuge. That way he doesn’t have to address the information offered by the other source. To anybody whose judgment remains unclouded by the manipulations of a psychopath, the answer should be quite obvious. Just about any person, even your garden-variety cheater and liar, is far more credible than a psychopath. But to a woman whose life and emotions are wrapped around the psychopath, the answer is likely to be that she prefers to believe him over his girlfriend or anybody else for that matter. Even in such a hopeless situation–if a psychopath’s partner doesn’t want to face the truth about him–it’s still important to share information with her. Psychopaths form co-dependent, addictive bonds with their so-called “loved” ones. They’re as dangerous to their partners as any hard drug is likely to be. If their partners know about their harmful actions and about their personality disorder, then at least they’re willingly assuming the risk. Everyone has the right to make choices in life, including the very risky one of staying with a psychopath. But at least they should make informed choices, so that they know whom they’re choosing and are prepared for the negative consequences of their decision.
Deception constitutes a very entertaining game for psychopaths. They use one victim to lie to another. They use both victims to lie to a third. They spin their web of mind-control upon all those around them. They encourage antagonisms or place distance among the people they deceive, so that they won’t compare notes and discover the lies. Often they blend in aspects of the truth with the lies, to focus on that small grain of truth if they’re caught. The bottom line remains that psychopaths are malicious sophists. It really doesn’t matter how often they lie or how often they tell the truth. Psychopaths use both truth and lies instrumentally, to persuade others to accept their false and self-serving version of reality and to get them under their control. For this reason, it’s pointless to try to sort out the truth from the lies. As M. L. Gallagher, a contributor to the website lovefraud.com has eloquently remarked, psychopaths themselves are the lie. From hello to goodbye, from you’re beautiful to you’re ugly, from you’re the woman of my life to you mean nothing to me, from beginning to end, the whole relationship with a psychopath is one big lie.

https://psychopathyawareness.wordpress.com/2011/09/13/dangerous-mind-games-how-psychopaths-manipulate-and-deceive/

Do other posters recognise anything in the above in relation to the behaviour of JB... Especially in relation to his supporters? By supporters I mean people he is in regular contact with and those people who campaign on his behalf.

And for further clarification I am not referring to any posters on here today, save for maybe Adam  ;D (Though Adam appears to be in a ball park all of his own  ;D just my opinion of course).
« Last Edit: April 03, 2015, 07:22:PM by stephanie hall »
“The only people who are mad at you for telling the truth are those people who are living a lie. Keep telling the truth"

Offline Alias

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Re: Do any former inmantes have any information about bamber?
« Reply #851 on: April 03, 2015, 07:22:PM »

I also seem to recall telling you that I was sorry that you felt the way you did................actually I still am because it appears to me that your attitude makes life rather difficult for you at times. You are entitled to your own boundaries -but you cannot expect others to automatically respect them, especially when they might not be aware of where they are- but they're your responsibility.

I have no idea to what you refer when you accuse me of "Buddying up" toScip but I can tell you that had he made the one-legged race comment to me, I'd have told him that I'd won the last one I'd entered..................you see, I have this ridiculous sense of the ridiculous :D

Oh really?

 ::) Who do you think you are? Giosh

Offline Caroline

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Re: Do any former inmantes have any information about bamber?
« Reply #852 on: April 03, 2015, 07:23:PM »
Do other posters recognise anything in the above in relation to the behaviour of JB... Especially in relation to his supporters? By supporters I mean people he is in regular contact with and those people who campaign on his behalf.

And for further clarification I am not referring to any posters on here today, save for maybe Adam  ;D Though Adam appears to be in a ball park all of his own  ;D just my opinion of course.

Most definitely.

4. Circumlocution. When you ask a psychopath a straightforward question that requires a straightforward answer, he usually goes round and round in circles or talks about something else altogether. For instance, when you ask him where he was on the previous night, sometimes he lies. At other times, he tries to divert you by bringing up another subject. He may also use flattery, such as saying how sexy your voice sounds and how much you turn him on. Such distractions are intended to cloud your reasoning and lead you to forget your original question.
5. Evasion. Relatedly, psychopaths can be very evasive. When you ask a psychopath a specific question, he will sometimes answer in general terms, talking about humanity, or men, or women, or whatever: anything but his own self and actions, which is what you were inquiring about in the first place.
Few people have the imagination for reality

Offline Jane

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Re: Do any former inmantes have any information about bamber?
« Reply #853 on: April 03, 2015, 07:26:PM »
Oh really?

 ::) Who do you think you are? Giosh



I'm NOT the one making complaints about being insulted and feeling hurt :D

Offline susan

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Re: Do any former inmantes have any information about bamber?
« Reply #854 on: April 03, 2015, 07:28:PM »
Alias if it means anything I have always found you a very level headed great poster who can be firm when you need to be but you don't hold a grudge and you contribute so much to the forum.  Some comments can be so offensive to one poster whereas another will laugh it off we all should try and respect how another person reacts to our posts.