Author Topic: Russia - worrying?  (Read 363307 times)

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Offline gringo

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #3045 on: September 20, 2023, 03:45:PM »
     It should be clear by now, even to the most committed NATO Kool Aid drinker, that the Kostiantynivka market attack was a deliberately targeted attack by NATO/Ukraine. The attack was immediately and without evidence blamed on Russia by every NATO government official and all western media. The attack was to be used to justify the ever increasing NATO involvement in Ukraine to their own indoctrinated masses.
     In a nutshell, a false flag attack. The deliberate targeting of civilians in a market to be blamed on Russia, but they were found out and had to change narrative quickly. The stray air defence missile story is demonstrably untrue and the NYT "investigation" is simply a cover up to take eyes away from the fact that NATO deliberately targeted civilians in Ukraine.
     It should cause a rethink amongst believers of many other evidence free accusations from NATO against Russia.
     Bucha, MH17, Kramatorsk station attack, blowing up NS2, bombing their own POW camp, Skripals, chemical weapons in Syria, Russiagate and on and on...
     What really happened in Kostiantynivka is obvious to anyone who cares about evidence. Its implications are also obvious to anyone prepared to deal with the evidence in front of them. NATO are a criminally aggressive warmongering axis. They are guilty of all the crimes listed above plus many more too numerous to list. Only the easily manipulated and gullible still believe the lies about Putin, Russia, Syria, Assad, Libya, Ghaddafi, China, Xi, Iran, The "Ayatollah", freedom, democracy, covid, climate emergency and on...

Online Steve_uk

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #3046 on: September 20, 2023, 07:11:PM »
     It should be clear by now, even to the most committed NATO Kool Aid drinker, that the Kostiantynivka market attack was a deliberately targeted attack by NATO/Ukraine. The attack was immediately and without evidence blamed on Russia by every NATO government official and all western media. The attack was to be used to justify the ever increasing NATO involvement in Ukraine to their own indoctrinated masses.
     In a nutshell, a false flag attack. The deliberate targeting of civilians in a market to be blamed on Russia, but they were found out and had to change narrative quickly. The stray air defence missile story is demonstrably untrue and the NYT "investigation" is simply a cover up to take eyes away from the fact that NATO deliberately targeted civilians in Ukraine.
     It should cause a rethink amongst believers of many other evidence free accusations from NATO against Russia.
     Bucha, MH17, Kramatorsk station attack, blowing up NS2, bombing their own POW camp, Skripals, chemical weapons in Syria, Russiagate and on and on...
     What really happened in Kostiantynivka is obvious to anyone who cares about evidence. Its implications are also obvious to anyone prepared to deal with the evidence in front of them. NATO are a criminally aggressive warmongering axis. They are guilty of all the crimes listed above plus many more too numerous to list. Only the easily manipulated and gullible still believe the lies about Putin, Russia, Syria, Assad, Libya, Ghaddafi, China, Xi, Iran, The "Ayatollah", freedom, democracy, covid, climate emergency and on...
It may have been fired accidentally by untrained personnel, who are trying to reclaim their own territory in the Donbas. Let's not forget why this war started and who is ultimately responsible for the half a million fatalities and five million internally displaced in Ukraine. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/sep/19/ukrainian-market-tragedy-may-have-been-caused-by-errant-missile-fired-by-ukraine
« Last Edit: September 20, 2023, 08:26:PM by Steve_uk »

Offline gringo

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #3047 on: September 20, 2023, 10:04:PM »
It may have been fired accidentally by untrained personnel, who are trying to reclaim their own territory in the Donbas. Let's not forget why this war started and who is ultimately responsible for the half a million fatalities and five million internally displaced in Ukraine. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/sep/19/ukrainian-market-tragedy-may-have-been-caused-by-errant-missile-fired-by-ukraine
    You are missing the forest for the trees, Steve. your bias against Russia and towards NATO prevents you from seeing NATO criminality and collusion even when it is in front of you, in flashing neon lights.
      Ask yourself where the Guardian and NYT "investigations" were when the market was hit. Let's have a look shall we. I'm sure that the articles written in the immediate aftermath by the "Guardian" and "NYT" will be guarded in attributing blame in this "yet to be investigated" incident.
      The Guardian first;
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/sep/06/russian-strike-on-crowded-ukraine-market-leaves-many-dead-blinken-visit

      The first paragraphs give the general flavour, Steve, copied below;

A Russian strike has hit a crowded market in the Ukrainian city of Kostiantynivka, killing at least 17 people, as the US secretary of state, Antony Blinken, was in Kyiv for an unannounced visit, his first for a year to the Ukrainian capital.

Ukrainian officials said a further 32 people were wounded in the attack, one of Russia’s deadliest attacks in months, 12 miles (20km) from the frontlines in the Donetsk region of eastern Ukraine.

Video of the aftermath showed fires raging in destroyed buildings and soldiers carrying body bags away from the scene. The Ukrainian prime minister, Denys Shmyhal, said a child was among those killed.

“A regular market. Shops. A pharmacy. People who did nothing wrong. Many wounded,” the Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelenskiy, wrote in a post on Telegram.

He called the strike “a terrorist attack” and said in a later press conference that it reflected the situation on the battlefield. “Whenever there are any positive advances by Ukrainian defence forces in that direction, Russians always target civilian people and civilian objects.”


     Oh dear! Not very balanced reporting is it?  What suddenly brought about their "investigation" after such opening certainty? Could it have been the fact that publicly available open source intel was widely disseminated which proved that the missile came from a direction which ruled out Russian culpability? The Guardian and NYT "investigations " are self evidently cover ups of an attempted false flag attack which they have to now explain away as no longer deliberate. That the missile hit the most population dense part of the city(ie. the market at busy period) is now a mere unfortunate coincidence. You would not believe this crock of shit if the roles were reversed and Russian media were reporting such inconsistent drivel.
     In a nutshell, Steve, here is what happened in a few easy steps as your bias seems to be preventing you from seeing what is glaringly obvious.

    1) NATO fire deliberately targeted missile at market in Kostiantynivka
    2) All of western media report the attack as unquestionably,  A "Russian strike has hit a crowded market in the Ukrainian city of Kostiantynivka, killing at least 17 people, as the US secretary of state, Antony Blinken, was in Kyiv for an unannounced visit, his first for a year to the Ukrainian capital."
    3) The footage released inadvertently contained evidence that blew the Russian culpability narrative( there were attempts to remove the footage and new "cleaned up" footage was released, but the cat was out of the bag)
    4) Houston we have a problem!!
    5) Western media now have a deliberately targeted attack on civilians but need to somehow spin the facts because Russia, have been ruled out as the culprit. What to do?
    6) "Respected papers of record"  ::) :-[ the Guardian and NYT carry out "investigations".
    7) The result of the hastily and shoddily written MI5/6/CIA cover story Guardian and NYT "investigations" reassures us that the deaths are now an unfortunate accident which "may" have been caused bla bla...
    8) All of the other attacks that have been reported with such certainty previously were still definitely done by the Russians though and require no further investigation.
   
     Steve, they got caught in an attempted false flag that was debunked. The Guardian and NYT, as well as all other western MSM, have outed themselves as mere propagandists. The small time frame between setting up the false flag, having media sing off the same hymn sheet, and that narrative falling apart is small enough that the "reporting" of these paid propagandists is well and truly exposed. It is impossible not to see.
     You cannot read their initial reporting and take seriously their new "investigation".
   

     

Online Steve_uk

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #3048 on: September 30, 2023, 08:49:PM »
Lavrov has rejected a ceasefire. https://youtu.be/9yb36pEmT7E

Offline gringo

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #3049 on: October 01, 2023, 01:29:AM »
Lavrov has rejected a ceasefire. https://youtu.be/9yb36pEmT7E
    All NATO and Western officials were stating unequivocally that Russia must be defeated militarily until very recently. NATO/Ukraine are in no position to dictate the terms of any ceasefire and never have been nor ever will be. This has always been entirely predictable and predicted by many realistic observers of geopolitics and arms/weapons development and procurement. It will end when NATO/Ukraine accept reality and agree to Russian terms/demands. I am surprised to see you linking to the two Alex's at the Duran. What did you make of their analysis/view of the situation?
      Unfortunately the UK government/establishment are set on escalating and are now sending "advisors" to work on the ground in Ukraine and making claims of sending ships to the Black Sea. Things are getting desperate in NATOstan and it is becoming clearer to many that much remains to be uncovered in Ukraine and final defeat threatens many "interests". The desperation of some NATO members to continue, no matter the cost in lives and money, hints at the extent of the crimes being covered up with increasingly reckless escalation.
      It is also becoming increasingly difficult to pretend not to see the huge Nazi problem, not just in Ukraine but in NATO more widely. Canada recently inviting and honouring a Waffen SS member to Parliament where he was honoured as a "freedom fighter who fought the Russians in World War 2". Cue wild applause. Zelensky, Trudeau, Freeland cheering, applauding and beaming with joy. I'm sure you have seen it as the whole episode went viral(not surprisingly) and the pathetic "apologies" after the event tells all you need to know. Unbelievable.
      It was never an "unprovoked Russian invasion", Steve. It is and has always been Operation Barbarossa 2.
     

Offline Hardy Boy

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #3050 on: October 01, 2023, 08:47:AM »
    All NATO and Western officials were stating unequivocally that Russia must be defeated militarily until very recently. NATO/Ukraine are in no position to dictate the terms of any ceasefire and never have been nor ever will be. This has always been entirely predictable and predicted by many realistic observers of geopolitics and arms/weapons development and procurement. It will end when NATO/Ukraine accept reality and agree to Russian terms/demands. I am surprised to see you linking to the two Alex's at the Duran. What did you make of their analysis/view of the situation?
      Unfortunately the UK government/establishment are set on escalating and are now sending "advisors" to work on the ground in Ukraine and making claims of sending ships to the Black Sea. Things are getting desperate in NATOstan and it is becoming clearer to many that much remains to be uncovered in Ukraine and final defeat threatens many "interests". The desperation of some NATO members to continue, no matter the cost in lives and money, hints at the extent of the crimes being covered up with increasingly reckless escalation.
      It is also becoming increasingly difficult to pretend not to see the huge Nazi problem, not just in Ukraine but in NATO more widely. Canada recently inviting and honouring a Waffen SS member to Parliament where he was honoured as a "freedom fighter who fought the Russians in World War 2". Cue wild applause. Zelensky, Trudeau, Freeland cheering, applauding and beaming with joy. I'm sure you have seen it as the whole episode went viral(not surprisingly) and the pathetic "apologies" after the event tells all you need to know. Unbelievable.
      It was never an "unprovoked Russian invasion", Steve. It is and has always been Operation Barbarossa 2.
     
Read it this morning Gringo.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-12579411/PETER-HITCHENS-SS-veteran-proved-war-never-simple-battle-good-versus-evil.html

Online Steve_uk

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #3051 on: October 04, 2023, 03:44:PM »
    All NATO and Western officials were stating unequivocally that Russia must be defeated militarily until very recently. NATO/Ukraine are in no position to dictate the terms of any ceasefire and never have been nor ever will be. This has always been entirely predictable and predicted by many realistic observers of geopolitics and arms/weapons development and procurement. It will end when NATO/Ukraine accept reality and agree to Russian terms/demands. I am surprised to see you linking to the two Alex's at the Duran. What did you make of their analysis/view of the situation?
      Unfortunately the UK government/establishment are set on escalating and are now sending "advisors" to work on the ground in Ukraine and making claims of sending ships to the Black Sea. Things are getting desperate in NATOstan and it is becoming clearer to many that much remains to be uncovered in Ukraine and final defeat threatens many "interests". The desperation of some NATO members to continue, no matter the cost in lives and money, hints at the extent of the crimes being covered up with increasingly reckless escalation.
      It is also becoming increasingly difficult to pretend not to see the huge Nazi problem, not just in Ukraine but in NATO more widely. Canada recently inviting and honouring a Waffen SS member to Parliament where he was honoured as a "freedom fighter who fought the Russians in World War 2". Cue wild applause. Zelensky, Trudeau, Freeland cheering, applauding and beaming with joy. I'm sure you have seen it as the whole episode went viral(not surprisingly) and the pathetic "apologies" after the event tells all you need to know. Unbelievable.
      It was never an "unprovoked Russian invasion", Steve. It is and has always been Operation Barbarossa 2.
     
You really do overegg the pudding. Anthony Rota blundered with the ex-Nazi, he lost his job and the Prime Minister apologized on television. Canada is a Western democracy, which is why when mistakes are made they make amends.

Sergei Lavrov has been touted by supporters as a world statesman, a force for good, and other such rubbish. He has shown himself in his true colours, a puppet of Putin, a Ribbentrop to use your Nazi analogy.

The justification for not honouring the Minsk Accords is again bogus, because they were ambiguous in the first place. It's evident Putin was fomenting violence and dissent in the Donbas, attested by the downing of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17.

The best thing that can be hoped for now is partitioning the country and a ceasefire to save lives. To reject this is criminal.

Online Steve_uk

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #3052 on: October 04, 2023, 09:24:PM »
Ukraine latest, summing up at 27:00 onwards. https://youtu.be/BGVSS-Wf7tI

Offline gringo

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #3053 on: October 06, 2023, 03:54:PM »
You really do overegg the pudding. Anthony Rota blundered with the ex-Nazi, he lost his job and the Prime Minister apologized on television. Canada is a Western democracy, which is why when mistakes are made they make amends.

Sergei Lavrov has been touted by supporters as a world statesman, a force for good, and other such rubbish. He has shown himself in his true colours, a puppet of Putin, a Ribbentrop to use your Nazi analogy.

The justification for not honouring the Minsk Accords is again bogus, because they were ambiguous in the first place. It's evident Putin was fomenting violence and dissent in the Donbas, attested by the downing of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17.

The best thing that can be hoped for now is partitioning the country and a ceasefire to save lives. To reject this is criminal.
     Give your head a wobble, Steve. You are seriously suggesting that they invited a "Waffen SS Nazi", introduced as, "fighting against the Russians in WW2", by accident. Do you hear yourself? I will give you a little more background on the "accidental" inviting of a Nazi to Canada's parliament. It requires a new thread which I will start in the next few days. You are currently, unwittingly or otherwise, acting as an apologist for Nazism. It is in your face, but so blinded are you by your hatred for Russia and all things Russian that you have lost your mind and all reason.
     You bring the Minsk accords and their alleged ambiguity and the downing of MH17 into every post despite knowing the square root of fuck-all about either. I started a thread to discuss the Minsk Accords where you had the opportunity to put up or shut up. I started it only because of your continued drive by mentions which lacked any depth or even understanding. You demonstrated on that thread your ignorance of the Minsk Accords. As my Dad was fond of saying, you could fit your entire knowledge on the back of a standard postage stamp and still leave room for the Lord's Prayer. You failed dismally to put up any coherent understanding of Minsk and the "ambiguities" that you claim exist. They don't exist and all you do is repeat the non specific allegations of others. You are incapable of fleshing out your position because it isn't "your position". You are just repeating the vague accusations of others. It is now about time that you shut up about Minsk. You have no coherent understanding of the whole process and it shows.
     I ask you this, Steve. Imagine the whole scenario of a Waffen SS Nazi being honoured in any other parliament(let's say for example, Hungary or Serbia). Would you accept an explanation that it was all a mistake? Would you believe that the speaker made a mistake and that all the applauding MP's were unaware? How about ISIS members or Al Qaeda members being honoured by (choose a govt. we are trained to hate)? Would you believe it was all a mistake and we should all move on-Russian propaganda?
     Wake up!! Stop acting as an unthinking apologist for Nazis.

Offline Hardy Boy

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #3054 on: October 06, 2023, 05:40:PM »
     Give your head a wobble, Steve. You are seriously suggesting that they invited a "Waffen SS Nazi", introduced as, "fighting against the Russians in WW2", by accident. Do you hear yourself? I will give you a little more background on the "accidental" inviting of a Nazi to Canada's parliament. It requires a new thread which I will start in the next few days. You are currently, unwittingly or otherwise, acting as an apologist for Nazism. It is in your face, but so blinded are you by your hatred for Russia and all things Russian that you have lost your mind and all reason.
     You bring the Minsk accords and their alleged ambiguity and the downing of MH17 into every post despite knowing the square root of fuck-all about either. I started a thread to discuss the Minsk Accords where you had the opportunity to put up or shut up. I started it only because of your continued drive by mentions which lacked any depth or even understanding. You demonstrated on that thread your ignorance of the Minsk Accords. As my Dad was fond of saying, you could fit your entire knowledge on the back of a standard postage stamp and still leave room for the Lord's Prayer. You failed dismally to put up any coherent understanding of Minsk and the "ambiguities" that you claim exist. They don't exist and all you do is repeat the non specific allegations of others. You are incapable of fleshing out your position because it isn't "your position". You are just repeating the vague accusations of others. It is now about time that you shut up about Minsk. You have no coherent understanding of the whole process and it shows.
     I ask you this, Steve. Imagine the whole scenario of a Waffen SS Nazi being honoured in any other parliament(let's say for example, Hungary or Serbia). Would you accept an explanation that it was all a mistake? Would you believe that the speaker made a mistake and that all the applauding MP's were unaware? How about ISIS members or Al Qaeda members being honoured by (choose a govt. we are trained to hate)? Would you believe it was all a mistake and we should all move on-Russian propaganda?
     Wake up!! Stop acting as an unthinking apologist for Nazis.
As my Dad was fond of saying, you could fit your entire knowledge on the back of a standard postage stamp and still leave room for the Lord's Prayer.  Ha Ha, that used to be a saying in the mines as well.

Offline gringo

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #3055 on: October 06, 2023, 05:53:PM »
As my Dad was fond of saying, you could fit your entire knowledge on the back of a standard postage stamp and still leave room for the Lord's Prayer.  Ha Ha, that used to be a saying in the mines as well.
   The old ones are always the best, HB. Happy to have given you a chuckle  :)

Offline Hardy Boy

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #3056 on: October 06, 2023, 06:08:PM »
   The old ones are always the best, HB. Happy to have given you a chuckle  :)
Ha Ha i know, my Dad's favourite when we used to play tricks on him was "If tha catche's me asleep tha can Piss in me tab"

Online Steve_uk

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #3057 on: October 06, 2023, 07:26:PM »
    Give your head a wobble, Steve. You are seriously suggesting that they invited a "Waffen SS Nazi", introduced as, "fighting against the Russians in WW2", by accident. Do you hear yourself? I will give you a little more background on the "accidental" inviting of a Nazi to Canada's parliament. It requires a new thread which I will start in the next few days. You are currently, unwittingly or otherwise, acting as an apologist for Nazism. It is in your face, but so blinded are you by your hatred for Russia and all things Russian that you have lost your mind and all reason.
     You bring the Minsk accords and their alleged ambiguity and the downing of MH17 into every post despite knowing the square root of fuck-all about either. I started a thread to discuss the Minsk Accords where you had the opportunity to put up or shut up. I started it only because of your continued drive by mentions which lacked any depth or even understanding. You demonstrated on that thread your ignorance of the Minsk Accords. As my Dad was fond of saying, you could fit your entire knowledge on the back of a standard postage stamp and still leave room for the Lord's Prayer. You failed dismally to put up any coherent understanding of Minsk and the "ambiguities" that you claim exist. They don't exist and all you do is repeat the non specific allegations of others. You are incapable of fleshing out your position because it isn't "your position". You are just repeating the vague accusations of others. It is now about time that you shut up about Minsk. You have no coherent understanding of the whole process and it shows.
     I ask you this, Steve. Imagine the whole scenario of a Waffen SS Nazi being honoured in any other parliament(let's say for example, Hungary or Serbia). Would you accept an explanation that it was all a mistake? Would you believe that the speaker made a mistake and that all the applauding MP's were unaware? How about ISIS members or Al Qaeda members being honoured by (choose a govt. we are trained to hate)? Would you believe it was all a mistake and we should all move on-Russian propaganda?
     Wake up!! Stop acting as an unthinking apologist for Nazis.
My head has passed more examinations over the decades than you could only dream about. I have told you many times that the Minsk agreements are difficult to comprehend and to a large extent attempted to paper over the cracks between conflicting Ukraine's and Russia's positions. For Ukraine the most important part of the agreement was the withdrawal of Russian-backed forces to its own border, which of course would give the game away, so never happened.

I now note Putin is holding court at the Valdai conference, preaching about the equality of other regimes around the world, ignoring his own despotism of chemical poisonings, throwing opponents out of high-storey buildings and planting bombs on planes, Xi's security law on Hong Kong or the re-education camps of the Uighurs, fraud in India's elections and the politicization of its armed forces, or Cyril Ramaphosa allegedly losing $500,000 stuffed under a sofa cushion.

Yes, the Nazi guest at the Canadian parliament was a diplomatic blunder, but the Speaker has lost his job. Why the conspiracy theory? Do you think Zelensky, who is himself Jewish, would have applauded the man had he known his military history?

Offline Hardy Boy

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #3058 on: October 07, 2023, 09:46:AM »
I'm fully against any kind of war, but these things happen and are totally out of our control.. But sometimes you have to ask yourself, how would the Yanks Respond again if Russia started arming and putting bases in Cuba again, how would the Uk respond if Russia started putting missile defence systems in the Republic of Ireland who are not a part of Nato? 


This is why Russia has took the action they have, i don't agree with wars or the killings of humans with any Country, but Russia has a duty to protect it's own citizens, It see's Nato as a threat and the thought of Ukraine joining will be an even bigger threat, they're also fed up with the domination of the Greenback and think it's time to change their reliance of such, who can blame them, why should one Country dominate world order.  You also have to understand,  if Russia was so minded and evil, they have the total power and arsenal to totally wipe Ukraine off the face of this earth without loss of life and face whatever happens.

We can all pick faults with any Regime in Power and look to what happened in the Past, No one can tell me the UK and the Yanks French and German's are Squeeky clean, but that's upto the Public to decide not us, but the only way through this now, is Diplomacy at the highest level taking into account what Russia want and Ukraine and the encroachment of Nato.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2023, 10:56:AM by Hardy Boy »

Online Steve_uk

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #3059 on: October 07, 2023, 11:10:AM »
I'm fully against any kind of war, but these things happen and are totally out of our control.. But sometimes you have to ask yourself, how would the Yanks Respond again if Russia started arming and putting bases in Cuba again, how would the Uk respond if Russia started putting missile defence systems in the Republic of Ireland who are not a part of Nato? 


This is why Russia has took the action they have, i don't agree with wars or the killings of humans with any Country, but Russia has a duty to protect it's own citizens, It see's Nato as a threat and the thought of Ukraine joining will be an even bigger threat, they're also fed up with the domination of the Greenback and think it's time to change their reliance of such, who can blame them, why should one Country dominate world order.  You also have to understand,  if Russia was so minded and evil, they have the total power and arsenal to totally wipe Ukraine off the face of this earth without loss of life and face whatever happens.

We can all pick faults with any Regime in Power and look to what happened in the Past, No one can tell me the UK and the Yanks French and German's are Squeeky clean, but that's upto the Public to decide not us, but the only way through this now, is Diplomacy at the highest level taking into account what Russia want and Ukraine and the encroachment of Nato.
I hope Hamas remember that in Gaza.