Author Topic: Russia - worrying?  (Read 365149 times)

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Offline David1819

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #2295 on: January 22, 2023, 11:09:AM »
   Don't know about that(David Irving. There are many other accounts about Srebenica that show the official western version to be a collection of half truths and outright mis/dis-information.
     As to the suspicions that the writer could be? David Irving. His views aside, which I don't know enough to care about, he is an excellent historian.
   

It wouldn't surprise me if you are a holocaust denier. Wouldn't surprise me if you attended the 2006 Iranian holocaust denial conference. 

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Crank_magnetism

Offline gringo

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #2296 on: January 22, 2023, 01:53:PM »
It wouldn't surprise me if you are a holocaust denier. Wouldn't surprise me if you attended the 2006 Iranian holocaust denial conference. 

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Crank_magnetism
   Your "interventions" on this thread add nothing at all. Just a series of irrelevant bullshit and name calling from the sidelines. You are incapable of discussion and instead just run interference. Akin to a child demanding attention whilst the grown ups are talking.
    When you do raise a question-your follow up shows how willing and capable of discussion that you are. You asked about Wagner (a reasonable point to discuss). I answered you and it turns out that you didn't raise Wagner to discuss the use of these groups in wars by all sides-what it means-whys-wherefores. No. Your only point was "Russia bad". No discussion or response to the reply on a subject that you raised and seemingly wanted to discuss. Your next intervention is shown below.
     Holocaust denier-probably attended 2006 conference in Iran.
     Your previous intervention was;
   Gringo wants to live the Russian dream. Work 50 hours a week in an asbestos mine, watch state propaganda on TV all night. His conscripted grandchildren upgrading the towns only working toilet with one they stole from Ukraine is a family honour.

    You are way out of your depth on this thread so do yourself, and us all a favour, and go and play with your toys-the grown ups are talking.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2023, 01:59:PM by gringo »


Offline David1819

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #2298 on: January 23, 2023, 01:18:AM »
Bradley fighting vehicles being delivered to Ukraine

https://imgur.io/gallery/cBOpQ9t#6LDV8pT

Offline handymanz

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #2299 on: January 23, 2023, 01:27:AM »
It wouldn't surprise me if you are a holocaust denier. Wouldn't surprise me if you attended the 2006 Iranian holocaust denial conference. 

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Crank_magnetism

A lot of information about what happened in the camps came from the Russians. They were the first liberators of Auschwitz which appears to be the Gold standard for measuring the horrors of the holocaust...
https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/liberation-of-nazi-camps

https://archive.org/details/DavidColeTheTruthBehindTheGatesOfAuschwitz1Of2

https://archive.org/details/DavidColeTheTruthBehindTheGatesOfAuschwitz2Of2

Offline David1819

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #2300 on: January 23, 2023, 01:33:AM »
   Your "interventions" on this thread add nothing at all. Just a series of irrelevant bullshit and name calling from the sidelines. You are incapable of discussion and instead just run interference. Akin to a child demanding attention whilst the grown ups are talking.
    When you do raise a question-your follow up shows how willing and capable of discussion that you are. You asked about Wagner (a reasonable point to discuss). I answered you and it turns out that you didn't raise Wagner to discuss the use of these groups in wars by all sides-what it means-whys-wherefores. No. Your only point was "Russia bad". No discussion or response to the reply on a subject that you raised and seemingly wanted to discuss. Your next intervention is shown below.
     Holocaust denier-probably attended 2006 conference in Iran.
     Your previous intervention was;
   Gringo wants to live the Russian dream. Work 50 hours a week in an asbestos mine, watch state propaganda on TV all night. His conscripted grandchildren upgrading the towns only working toilet with one they stole from Ukraine is a family honour.

    You are way out of your depth on this thread so do yourself, and us all a favour, and go and play with your toys-the grown ups are talking.

For someone who made up claims about CCTV on Skripals front door,  posting links to the works of a convicted pedophile and paleo conservative creationists to support your claims. Claiming NATO are behind certain things that the Russians themselves don't deny doing. You are in no position to criticize me.

You are an emperor with no clothes.



« Last Edit: January 23, 2023, 01:37:AM by David1819 »

Offline David1819

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #2301 on: January 23, 2023, 01:37:AM »
A lot of information about what happened in the camps came from the Russians. They were the first liberators of Auschwitz which appears to be the Gold standard for measuring the horrors of the holocaust...
https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/liberation-of-nazi-camps

https://archive.org/details/DavidColeTheTruthBehindTheGatesOfAuschwitz1Of2

https://archive.org/details/DavidColeTheTruthBehindTheGatesOfAuschwitz2Of2

https://streamable.com/e16jc


Offline handymanz

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #2302 on: January 23, 2023, 01:43:AM »
« Last Edit: January 23, 2023, 06:28:AM by handyman »

Offline nugnug

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #2303 on: January 23, 2023, 12:23:PM »
A lot of information about what happened in the camps came from the Russians. They were the first liberators of Auschwitz which appears to be the Gold standard for measuring the horrors of the holocaust...
https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/liberation-of-nazi-camps

https://archive.org/details/DavidColeTheTruthBehindTheGatesOfAuschwitz1Of2

https://archive.org/details/DavidColeTheTruthBehindTheGatesOfAuschwitz2Of2

yes while the ukriane was activly taking part in the holcolst

Offline nugnug

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #2304 on: January 23, 2023, 01:25:PM »

Offline gringo

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #2305 on: January 23, 2023, 07:45:PM »
https://youtu.be/L5j1qQb-Ch0
  https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/ukraine-holocaust

     The Nazi ideology of the Bandera followers in Western Ukraine and Galicia region never went away. It has festered since the end of WW2. Western Ukrainians/Galicians were savage and willing participants in the murder of communists, Bolshevik sympathisers, Jews and anyone else who wasn't "ideologically pure". The divisions in Ukraine have always been there-Nazis in the West who view the Eastern populations as sub-human mongol hordes. Twas ever thus.
     What we are witnessing now is in many ways WW2 still playing out. The mongol hordes in the way of NATO/Nazi lebensraum. They want the rich land, the people on it a mere inconvenience to be cleansed/genocided. Russia, successor state to USSR, still standing in the way.
      The fourth reich, NATO, pulling the strings this time.
      Nazi,
      NATO,
      Tomah-to, Tomay-to

     A few excerpts from the article linked above;

Based on present-day borders, one in every four Jewish victims of the Holocaust was murdered in Ukraine.

In the history of the Holocaust, the summer and fall of 1941 are especially significant because they represent a period of critical escalation. In a matter of months mobile Nazi killing units, which had begun shooting all adult male Jews during the invasion of the Soviet Union, expanded to include a genocide targeting women, children, and entire Jewish communities.


  The mass shooting of Jewish victims in the summer and fall of 1941 represents the first phase of the Holocaust, often referred to by historians as “the Holocaust by bullets.” It was during this initial phase that special German killing squads (Einsatzkommandos) coordinated the mass murder of Jews by bullets with the help of the SS, Wehrmacht troops, the Romanian military, special “operational squadrons,” order police units, and local collaborators.

   Just days before the invasion, the Nazi leadership also issued a memorandum entitled “Guidelines for the Conduct of Troops of Russia,” which directly linked Jews as a racial group to the broader category of political enemies. The “Guidelines” described Bolshevism as the deadliest threat to the German people’s existence; justified the killing of Bolshevik agitators, armed insurgents, saboteurs, and Jews; and encouraged the total elimination of active or passive resistance.

As the historian Wendy Lower argues, “the German military helped prepare for the invasion by drafting and distributing orders for the ruthless isolation or elimination of individuals broadly defined as Bolsheviks and resistors[sic] and more narrowly identified as Jews.”

   The term “security measures,” encompassed a wide range of duties but, initially, the main focus was the murder of Soviet political functionaries and other perceived political enemies. In order to fulfill this goal, security task forces were instructed to kill all Jews occupying state and party positions and target Jewish able-bodied men who might foment serious resistance on the behalf of the Soviet state. Consequently, during the first weeks of the invasion, as German troops secured territory in Ukraine, large numbers of Jewish men were rounded up in cities and towns. Those who were deemed useful—skilled laborers, doctors, and specialists—were spared, while the rest were shot.


     Read the full article, that is just a few excerpts to show the ideology that is being used to fuel the conflict.

Offline ngb1066

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #2306 on: January 23, 2023, 09:31:PM »
  https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/ukraine-holocaust

     The Nazi ideology of the Bandera followers in Western Ukraine and Galicia region never went away. It has festered since the end of WW2. Western Ukrainians/Galicians were savage and willing participants in the murder of communists, Bolshevik sympathisers, Jews and anyone else who wasn't "ideologically pure". The divisions in Ukraine have always been there-Nazis in the West who view the Eastern populations as sub-human mongol hordes. Twas ever thus.
     What we are witnessing now is in many ways WW2 still playing out. The mongol hordes in the way of NATO/Nazi lebensraum. They want the rich land, the people on it a mere inconvenience to be cleansed/genocided. Russia, successor state to USSR, still standing in the way.
      The fourth reich, NATO, pulling the strings this time.
      Nazi,
      NATO,
      Tomah-to, Tomay-to

     A few excerpts from the article linked above;

Based on present-day borders, one in every four Jewish victims of the Holocaust was murdered in Ukraine.

In the history of the Holocaust, the summer and fall of 1941 are especially significant because they represent a period of critical escalation. In a matter of months mobile Nazi killing units, which had begun shooting all adult male Jews during the invasion of the Soviet Union, expanded to include a genocide targeting women, children, and entire Jewish communities.


  The mass shooting of Jewish victims in the summer and fall of 1941 represents the first phase of the Holocaust, often referred to by historians as “the Holocaust by bullets.” It was during this initial phase that special German killing squads (Einsatzkommandos) coordinated the mass murder of Jews by bullets with the help of the SS, Wehrmacht troops, the Romanian military, special “operational squadrons,” order police units, and local collaborators.

   Just days before the invasion, the Nazi leadership also issued a memorandum entitled “Guidelines for the Conduct of Troops of Russia,” which directly linked Jews as a racial group to the broader category of political enemies. The “Guidelines” described Bolshevism as the deadliest threat to the German people’s existence; justified the killing of Bolshevik agitators, armed insurgents, saboteurs, and Jews; and encouraged the total elimination of active or passive resistance.

As the historian Wendy Lower argues, “the German military helped prepare for the invasion by drafting and distributing orders for the ruthless isolation or elimination of individuals broadly defined as Bolsheviks and resistors[sic] and more narrowly identified as Jews.”

   The term “security measures,” encompassed a wide range of duties but, initially, the main focus was the murder of Soviet political functionaries and other perceived political enemies. In order to fulfill this goal, security task forces were instructed to kill all Jews occupying state and party positions and target Jewish able-bodied men who might foment serious resistance on the behalf of the Soviet state. Consequently, during the first weeks of the invasion, as German troops secured territory in Ukraine, large numbers of Jewish men were rounded up in cities and towns. Those who were deemed useful—skilled laborers, doctors, and specialists—were spared, while the rest were shot.


     Read the full article, that is just a few excerpts to show the ideology that is being used to fuel the conflict.

It is good that you post this gringo.  The crawling adulation of the current Ukrainian regime, especially in the "liberal" press is nauseating.  Ukrainian nationalism is a disgusting ideology, rooted in fascism.  The cult of Bandera is beyond sick, and the idea that the Azov Battalion are defenders of liberal democracy is beyond ludicrous.  The BBC and the Guardian hiding Nazi insignia in their images of "brave Ukranians" has been sickening.  It is as bad as the eulogising of those "freedom fighting mujahidin"  scumbags in Afghanistan, who with CIA backing defeated the only decent society that the people there experienced.  Look where Afghanistan is now, compared to where it was in the 1970s.

 

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #2307 on: January 23, 2023, 10:04:PM »
Of course the Soviet Union was squeaky clean..https://youtu.be/yYdfpsd-Eh4

..and Putin is the legitimate leader of Russia. https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/why-we-must-not-recognize-russias-fraudulent-election/

Offline ngb1066

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #2308 on: January 23, 2023, 10:28:PM »
Of course the Soviet Union was squeaky clean..https://youtu.be/yYdfpsd-Eh4

..and Putin is the legitimate leader of Russia. https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/why-we-must-not-recognize-russias-fraudulent-election/

Who said the Soviet Union was "squeaky clean" ?  I agree the Katyn massacre was a crime and frankly unforgivable. It was made worse by the fact that for a long time good people were persuaded that the Soviet account was correct.  However, overall the Soviet Union played a positive and progressive role internationally, throughout its existence.  This is unlike the Roman Catholic Church, of which you are still apparently a loyal acolyte.  The USSR opposed fascism and the Nazis throughout.  This is in stark contrast to the Vatican, and in particular Pope Pius XII, who was not only an appeaser but an active supporter of Franco, Hitler, Mussolini and everything evil in the world. I do not see you condemn or renounce the Catholic Church and its dreadful record.   Take the mote out of your own eye first.     


Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #2309 on: January 23, 2023, 10:41:PM »
Who said the Soviet Union was "squeaky clean" ?  I agree the Katyn massacre was a crime and frankly unforgivable. It was made worse by the fact that for a long time good people were persuaded that the Soviet account was correct.  However, overall the Soviet Union played a positive and progressive role internationally, throughout its existence.  This is unlike the Roman Catholic Church, of which you are still apparently a loyal acolyte.  The USSR opposed fascism and the Nazis throughout.  This is in stark contrast to the Vatican, and in particular Pope Pius XII, who was not only an appeaser but an active supporter of Franco, Hitler, Mussolini and everything evil in the world. I do not see you condemn or renounce the Catholic Church and its dreadful record.   Take the mote out of your own eye first.     
Well what I have highlighted in bold certainly isn't true. Do you think Eastern Europe wished to be subjugated for 44 years? As for religion, I'm not a Roman Catholic but we are High Church admittedly. I have researched the issue and agree it was a mixed record but wonder given the situation what else the Pope could have done? https://www.vaticannews.va/en/church/news/2022-02/feldkamp-pope-pius-xii-holocaust-history-archives.html