Author Topic: Russia - worrying?  (Read 365230 times)

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Online ngb1066

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #195 on: March 10, 2015, 04:42:PM »
As an American, you were obviously brought up to see both Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union as the greatest of evils.
There is certainly a case for that, with Stalin's regime actually killing far more people than Hitler's. Although Hitler's regime brought about the holocaust, attempting to eradicate an entire race.

From a British perspective, we tend to see the Soviets role as allies during that time and point to things like their liberation of Auschwitz as a measure.

So maybe it's just a perspective thing?  :-\

Utter rubbish.


guest2181

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #197 on: March 10, 2015, 04:49:PM »
Just 10 million people in it. It seems.  :-\

Offline David1819

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #198 on: March 10, 2015, 04:58:PM »
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-2091670/Hitler-Stalin-The-murderous-regimes-world.html


Those figures are grossly exaggerated

Hitler 11 million estimate
Stalin 20 Million estimate
Mao 40 Million estimate

guest2181

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #199 on: March 10, 2015, 05:00:PM »
Those figures are grossly exaggerated

Hitler 11 million estimate
Stalin 20 Million estimate
Mao 40 Million estimate

Well okay. But in any event, NGB's 'UTTER RUBBISH', is well ....... 'utter rubbish'.

Just sayin'  ???

Offline David1819

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #200 on: March 10, 2015, 05:03:PM »
Well okay. But in any event, NGB's 'UTTER RUBBISH', is well ....... 'utter rubbish'.

Just sayin'  ???

Yes its a well established fact that Stalin killed more people than Hitler, almost double

guest2181

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #201 on: March 10, 2015, 05:05:PM »
Yes its a well established fact that Stalin killed more people than Hitler, almost double

Thank you, I thought I was going mad.  :P

Offline petey

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #202 on: March 10, 2015, 05:07:PM »
Well okay. But in any event, NGB's 'UTTER RUBBISH', is well ....... 'utter rubbish'.

Just sayin'  ???

All statistics are open to interpretation and whichever spin you wish to put on them.

You could argue that Hitler killed approximately 11 million non-combatants, whereas Stalin only killed 8-9 million non combatants, thus making Hitler worse.........

Online ngb1066

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #203 on: March 10, 2015, 05:10:PM »


Far from being a staunch ally the Soviets were simply allies because Germany decided to invade. 

Stalin was responsible for WWII beginning.   Germany was scared to start a 2 front war in 1939 because Germany was not on a footing to fight such a war.  The USSR formed a secret non-aggression pact with Germany.   In 1941 came the invasion of the USSR and that event is what caused the USSR to change sides.  It was because the Nazis invaded the USSR otherwise the Soviets would simply have stayed secret partners with the Nazis.




To suggest that the USSR was responsible for WW2 takes American anti-communism to new depths!  Even Churchill never claimed what you have, and he was certainly no fan of communism!

In the 1930s the USSR recognised the increasing threat arising from Hitler's expansionist vision.  The Soviet government and people were bitterly hostile topwards the Nazis.  The communists in Germany were the first group to be persecuted by the Nazis, with its leading members sent to concentration camps and the Communist Party itself brutally suppressed.  The USSR was ill prepared for war.  It tried repeatedly to negotiate defence treaties with Britain and France but was rejected.  In order to buy time the non aggression pact with Germany was signed.  The Soviet government had no illusions that this would last, they knew (because Hitler had made it no secret) that sooner of later the Nazis would attempt to annexe large parts of the Soviet Union.  The period between the signing of the treaty and the invasition of the USSR was used to enable a massive rearmament programme to be undertaken.  It also enabled much heavy industry to be moved to greater safety beyond the Urals.

The Soviet government were taken by surprise by the invasion on 22nd June 1941, but only because they thought it would take place later. Of course that resulted in the USSR joining the war and becoming allies with the UK and the Commonwealth countries.  At that time of course the USA was not involved.  It was neutral.  It entered the war against Japan as a result of the attack on Pearl Harbor on 7th December 1941.  It only entered the war against Germany following Hitler's declaration of war against the USA on 11th December 1941.  There was of course a very strong isolationist trend in the USA, which only changed as a result of Pearl Harbor. 

That is enough for one post.  I will challenge the rest of the garbage in your post later.

     

Online ngb1066

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guest2181

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #205 on: March 10, 2015, 05:13:PM »
The Daily Mail!  That's all right then.

Haha, maybe. It seems okay when quoting a Bamber story though.  :-\

Online ngb1066

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #206 on: March 10, 2015, 05:16:PM »
Those figures are grossly exaggerated

Hitler 11 million estimate
Stalin 20 Million estimate
Mao 40 Million estimate

Hitler was responsible for far more deaths than 11 million.  Over 20 million Soviet citizens alone died as a result of WW2.

I am not here to defend all of Stalin's actions, far from it (that is a separate discussion) but the figures for deaths in the USSR during that period are inflated by the inclusion of famine victims and are in any event magnified by those with a particular view of history.

   
 
« Last Edit: March 10, 2015, 05:18:PM by ngb1066 »

Online ngb1066

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #207 on: March 10, 2015, 05:17:PM »
Well okay. But in any event, NGB's 'UTTER RUBBISH', is well ....... 'utter rubbish'.

Just sayin'  ???

We will just have to disagree.


Online ngb1066

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #208 on: March 10, 2015, 05:18:PM »
Haha, maybe. It seems okay when quoting a Bamber story though.  :-\

Not for me.  I can't stand the paper.

 

Online ngb1066

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #209 on: March 10, 2015, 05:20:PM »
Yes its a well established fact that Stalin killed more people than Hitler, almost double

It's no surprise that you should take that view.  You and Scipio are a great team (except of course when it comes to Jeremy Bamber).  ;D