Author Topic: Russia - worrying?  (Read 362658 times)

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Offline gringo

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #2475 on: February 08, 2023, 01:13:AM »
     The promised "leaked" MOSSAD field report;

Claim: Ukrainian and Russian casualties according to MOSSAD
Allegedly, the field data of January 14, 2023, based on Israeli intelligence, is listed as follows:

RUSSIA:
Russian losses in the field with 418 thousand soldiers (plus 3,500,000 reservists) and the increasing number of Wagner mercenaries:
23 Planes
56 helicopter
200 (S)UAV
889 Tanks and armored vehicles
427 Howitzer (Artillery systems)
12 Air defense system
18,480 dead
44,500 Injured
323 Captive

UKRAINE:
The casualties of Ukraine, which was in the field with 734 thousand soldiers (plus 100 thousand reservists) and NATO officers, soldiers and mercenaries, are as follows:
302 Aircraft
212 Helicopter
2.750 (S)UAV
6,320 Tanks and armored vehicles
7.360 Howitzer (Artillery systems)
497 Air defense system
157,000 Dead
234,000 injured
17,230 Captive

234 Dead – NATO military trainers (US and UK)
2,458 Dead – NATO soldiers (Germany, Poland, Lithuania, ...)
5,360 Dead – Mercenaries

Where on earth did you get this nonsense from?  That's not from mossad, that's from some Russian troll in a basement somewhere.  How can Ukraine lose 6,320 tanks and AFVs when they barely had 1500 to begin with?  :))


    Your comprehension and critical thinking leave much to be desired.
    Mossad claim is 6,320 tanks and fighting vehicles.
    Ukraine started the war with around 1,000 to 1,500 tanks.
    They had an estimated 12,000 fighting vehicles at commencement of hostilities.
    Since then they have been sent 2,000 fighting vehicles from US alone, hundreds more tanks and are currently begging for more.
    Their air force and air defence was mostly destroyed in the opening weeks. Their Navy suffered the same fate.
    How many do you think they have lost?
    The numbers tell the tale.
    If anything the numbers are conservative.

Offline gringo

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #2476 on: February 08, 2023, 01:44:AM »
    The Pentagon (Dept of Defence)appears to be the latest "agency" distancing itself from the factions within the intel agencies driving this war. Colonel MacGregor has claimed that General Zaluzhny (head of Ukraine Army) told Lloyd Austin and General Milley of real Ukrainian losses of 257,000.
    That MacGregor has named Austin and Milley and their meeting with Zaluzhny hints that this "leak" is "authorised" by them. He could have said DoD or Pentagon sources. Directly naming those is suggestive that the military leadership is at odds with other intel agencies. No public denials of these numbers from the Pentagon. 
    The supposed "leaks" and accusations by the likes of Naftali Bennett show the increasing fractures within  NATO and its allies, as their best laid plans meet Russian reality. There is a growing realisation in the West of the size of this foreign policy debacle.

Offline David1819

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #2477 on: February 08, 2023, 03:27:AM »
Where on earth did you get this nonsense from?  That's not from mossad, that's from some Russian troll in a basement somewhere.  How can Ukraine lose 6,320 tanks and AFVs when they barely had 1500 to begin with?  :))


    Your comprehension and critical thinking leave much to be desired.
    Mossad claim is 6,320 tanks and fighting vehicles.
    Ukraine started the war with around 1,000 to 1,500 tanks.
    They had an estimated 12,000 fighting vehicles at commencement of hostilities.
    Since then they have been sent 2,000 fighting vehicles from US alone, hundreds more tanks and are currently begging for more.
    Their air force and air defence was mostly destroyed in the opening weeks. Their Navy suffered the same fate.
    How many do you think they have lost?
    The numbers tell the tale.
    If anything the numbers are conservative.

Mossad has not claimed anything. Numbers produced by some troll from a fictional local paper on the internet and claiming its from Mossad is not evidence of anything. According to the troll, Russia has lost only 18k troops, if that was the case they would not have conscripted and mobilised 300,000 men from their civilian lives last year.

The fact you have bought this hook, line and sinker shows its not me that lacks comprehension and critical thinking its you!

https://twitter.com/WashingtonPoint/status/1622475655815331845?s=20
« Last Edit: February 08, 2023, 03:29:AM by David1819 »

Offline gringo

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #2478 on: February 08, 2023, 03:52:AM »
Mossad has not claimed anything. Numbers produced by some troll from a fictional local paper on the internet and claiming its from Mossad is not evidence of anything. According to the troll, Russia has lost only 18k troops, if that was the case they would not have conscripted and mobilised 300,000 men from their civilian lives last year.

The fact you have bought this hook, line and sinker shows its not me that lacks comprehension and critical thinking its you!


    The 300k mobilised are only being deployed in numbers now. This is not a secret. That is why there is lots of activity all along the front now and Russia are pushing and probing all along the line. Ukraine armed forces are stretched and weakened. That is what the 300,000 were for. They didn't go straight to the front lines. They were training ready the big push now happening. How do you think that suddenly Ukraine's lines are breaking? Russian losses are easily a magnitude lower than Ukraine armed forces. Every other metric points to this. The equipment losses claimed are given credibility by the admitted number of donated equipment from NATO countries. If Ukraine haven't had those losses of equipment, then it needs to be explained where the initial equipment and additional weapons and equipment has gone, because they are still desperate for equipment. They have self evidently lost, at least, the numbers of equipment listed.
    The acknowledged fact of artillery attrition rates, up to 10 to 1 in Russia's favour.
    The waves of conscription in Ukraine. Utterly desperate for men and sending 18 year olds and 60 years old untrained conscripts to the front as fodder. 
    The above are all acknowledged numbers. How on earth given these huge imbalances do you imagine that attrition rates favour Ukraine?

Offline David1819

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #2479 on: February 08, 2023, 05:53:AM »

Offline gringo

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #2480 on: February 08, 2023, 12:37:PM »
Kremlin planning malign influence operations in Britain

https://lansinginstitute.org/2023/02/02/kremlin-planning-malign-influence-operations-in-britain/
   You should be more concerned with the UK government planning "malign influence operations in Britain"

Offline David1819

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #2481 on: February 08, 2023, 04:13:PM »
Do Tankies ever admit they are wrong?


Offline gringo

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #2482 on: February 08, 2023, 04:31:PM »
Do Tankies ever admit they are wrong?


    He was right. Russia acted under Article 51 of the UN Charter and the Responsibility to Protect doctrine. Ukraine were preparing to invade Donbass and had increased shelling. Russia under Art. 51 acted to prevent ethnic cleansing and crimes against humanity. I did a thread on the legalities in order for you to add meat to your accusations of illegal invasion. You failed, predictably, to challenge any part of Russia's legal case.
    Russia have acted in accordance with the UN Charter in their attempts to solve the problems in regions of Ukraine ever since the 2014 Maidan coup. They acted only when all other avenues had been exhausted. Every one of those avenues was blocked because of the admitted bad faith of Ukraine and its Western backers. This is not disputable and has played out in front of the whole world throughout those years. Only deluded souls such as yourself give any credibility to the proven liars in Western media and governments.
    There was no invasion. It is a SMO under Art. 51 of the UN Charter. You call it an illegal invasion but have failed to articulate your case despite an entire thread devoted to it.
   

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11616.0.html

Offline David1819

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #2483 on: February 08, 2023, 04:48:PM »

Offline gringo

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #2484 on: February 08, 2023, 05:34:PM »
    To re-frame the question that you keep avoiding. If you find the claimed losses of Ukrainian equipment not believable- then what do you believe them to be?

    For instance, to take the tanks and fighting vehicles figure. Of the 1,000 to 1,500 tanks they started with and 12,000 fighting vehicles and the known donations (too many to list) of more tanks and fighting vehicles amounting to easily 4,000+. How many do you think are left of the 18,000+ tanks and fighting vehicles? They are asking for thousands more. all evidence supports that the figures given are conservative.
     Now try the same with planes, air defence systems, artillery units. How many to start with? How many donated? How many still begging for? What is the inevitable conclusion?

Offline David1819

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #2485 on: February 08, 2023, 05:40:PM »
    He was right. Russia acted under Article 51 of the UN Charter and the Responsibility to Protect doctrine. Ukraine were preparing to invade Donbass and had increased shelling. Russia under Art. 51 acted to prevent ethnic cleansing and crimes against humanity. I did a thread on the legalities in order for you to add meat to your accusations of illegal invasion. You failed, predictably, to challenge any part of Russia's legal case.
    Russia have acted in accordance with the UN Charter in their attempts to solve the problems in regions of Ukraine ever since the 2014 Maidan coup. They acted only when all other avenues had been exhausted. Every one of those avenues was blocked because of the admitted bad faith of Ukraine and its Western backers. This is not disputable and has played out in front of the whole world throughout those years. Only deluded souls such as yourself give any credibility to the proven liars in Western media and governments.
    There was no invasion. It is a SMO under Art. 51 of the UN Charter. You call it an illegal invasion but have failed to articulate your case despite an entire thread devoted to it.
   

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11616.0.html

You are crazy!
« Last Edit: February 08, 2023, 05:41:PM by David1819 »

Offline David1819

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #2486 on: February 08, 2023, 05:43:PM »
    To re-frame the question that you keep avoiding. If you find the claimed losses of Ukrainian equipment not believable- then what do you believe them to be?


Answer my question.

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,6518.msg535901.html#msg535901


I find the stats backed by photos to be credible. You say its been proven many of these photos are duplicates, so I am awaiting your source for this alleged proof.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #2487 on: February 08, 2023, 05:55:PM »
    He was right. Russia acted under Article 51 of the UN Charter and the Responsibility to Protect doctrine. Ukraine were preparing to invade Donbass and had increased shelling. Russia under Art. 51 acted to prevent ethnic cleansing and crimes against humanity. I did a thread on the legalities in order for you to add meat to your accusations of illegal invasion. You failed, predictably, to challenge any part of Russia's legal case.
    Russia have acted in accordance with the UN Charter in their attempts to solve the problems in regions of Ukraine ever since the 2014 Maidan coup. They acted only when all other avenues had been exhausted. Every one of those avenues was blocked because of the admitted bad faith of Ukraine and its Western backers. This is not disputable and has played out in front of the whole world throughout those years. Only deluded souls such as yourself give any credibility to the proven liars in Western media and governments.
    There was no invasion. It is a SMO under Art. 51 of the UN Charter. You call it an illegal invasion but have failed to articulate your case despite an entire thread devoted to it.
   

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11616.0.html
Russia did a good job then. https://youtu.be/-sc4hW21UC0

The Budapest Memorandum commentary. https://theconversation.com/ukraine-war-what-is-the-budapest-memorandum-and-why-has-russias-invasion-torn-it-up-178184

Offline David1819

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #2488 on: February 09, 2023, 05:25:AM »

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #2489 on: February 09, 2023, 07:50:PM »
    He was right. Russia acted under Article 51 of the UN Charter and the Responsibility to Protect doctrine. Ukraine were preparing to invade Donbass and had increased shelling. Russia under Art. 51 acted to prevent ethnic cleansing and crimes against humanity. I did a thread on the legalities in order for you to add meat to your accusations of illegal invasion. You failed, predictably, to challenge any part of Russia's legal case.
    Russia have acted in accordance with the UN Charter in their attempts to solve the problems in regions of Ukraine ever since the 2014 Maidan coup. They acted only when all other avenues had been exhausted. Every one of those avenues was blocked because of the admitted bad faith of Ukraine and its Western backers. This is not disputable and has played out in front of the whole world throughout those years. Only deluded souls such as yourself give any credibility to the proven liars in Western media and governments.
    There was no invasion. It is a SMO under Art. 51 of the UN Charter. You call it an illegal invasion but have failed to articulate your case despite an entire thread devoted to it.
   

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11616.0.html
Donbass was part of Ukraine until annexation by Russia.