submit questions for the Essex Police Challenge

[Caroline]

   I would think it unreasonable to assume that Patti assumes that there is a 50/50 chance of the call happening. Patti believes JB innocent so therefore assumes the call happened.
     Your reasoning is faulty anyway, assuming as it does that the only alternative to not knowing is a 50/50 chance. It is fair to say that we cannot tell whether the call occurred or not, but I would think it more reasonable to assume that Patti places the odds on whether it did or not somewhere between 90/10 and 100/0 given that she believes JB innocent.
     Why would you care enough to know what odds Patti places on it anyway that you would make assumptions in the absence of Patti quoting an accurate percentage for the strength of her belief.

You're arguing for arguing sake. I honestly don't care if she meant 50/50, 40/60 or just doesn't have a clue. But perhaps you should let her speak for herself?

[Caroline]

I think something is being missed.

Taking the possibility of a call in isolation,  there is no reasonable argument of whether it occurred or not.

It is only when you consider other evidence that you can form an opinion as to whether the call occurred or not. Obviously if you believe Sheila is guilty, then the call existed; if you believe JB is the killer, then it didn't.

The initial point being made, was that if JB is guilty and therefore no call took place, then by making up the call, he sealed his own fate.

That is clearly the case.

Which is what I said - more than once. 

[Jan]

Well I knew nothing at all about the case, I was told 'what the situation was' by others, I set out to find out for myself and form my own opinion. I've been on this forum on and off almost since it's inception, arguably I know the case as well as anybody.

I've formed the opinion that I have regarding JB's guilt, based on my take on the information available.

I don't believe there was foul play of any kind regarding the sound moderator. There have been many claims made about the SM, from exhibit references, multiple SM's, the find date etc, etc. Every single claim has been found out to be a concoction.
The claims may sound compelling at first, but when you actually delve in to them, you can see that they are fantastical. It's not just a case of misunderstanding either, they are outright lies attempting to pull the wool over people's eyes. They are obviously not given any mileage, other than on these types of message boards.

That's where I am anyway.

personally in your opinion why has he spent all this time trying to prove his innocence?

and how could he judge that he could commit such a crime and stand next to the police calmly telling lies when apparently he had never committed any sort of violent crime before?

Having once seen someone die in not such violent circumstances I think you would be in shock for hours let alone stand next to your potential jailers?

And if he is guilty and JM is telling the truth - how did she carry on for a month and ID those poor children?

[Caroline]

That's a possibility but it requires nerves of steel and an ability to completely disassociate himself emotionally from killing his close family.  Is he capable of this?  There's nothing that proves he is but he could be, we have been told all psychological tests show he is not a psychopath, has no personality disorders and is sane.  That is what we're told, we have no proof as far as I know that this isn't true.

In other words, being a psychopath.

[Jan]

Inavertently!  That was me, so if I make a good point, it is per definition inadvertently.

Of course it was a good point - advertently. What super-idiot shoots someone twice, then proceeds to stage it as a suicide, crawls out a window, locks it from outside (never heard of such a thing anywhere else, but never mind, it didn´t have to be proven.....), then calls the cops with a made up claim about a phone call, which excludes anyone else but you or the victim you shot twice and staged as a suicide - what massive moron would do that?
In fact i made a brilliant point, if I may say so myself!

I agree - if you wrote this as a plan you would be certified as insane .

[David1819]

In other words, being a psychopath.

worse!

[guest2181]

Which is what I said - more than once. 

Yes you did. That's where I got it from.  :D

[Caroline]

Yes you did. That's where I got it from.  :D

Good, I thought I as writing in hieroglyphics!! 

[David1819]

Well I knew nothing at all about the case, I was told 'what the situation was' by others, I set out to find out for myself and form my own opinion. I've been on this forum on and off almost since it's inception, arguably I know the case as well as anybody.

I've formed the opinion that I have regarding JB's guilt, based on my take on the information available.

I don't believe there was foul play of any kind regarding the sound moderator. There have been many claims made about the SM, from exhibit references, multiple SM's, the find date etc, etc. Every single claim has been found out to be a concoction.
The claims may sound compelling at first, but when you actually delve in to them, you can see that they are fantastical. It's not just a case of misunderstanding either, they are outright lies attempting to pull the wool over people's eyes. They are obviously not given any mileage, other than on these types of message boards.

That's where I am anyway.

What do you make of the of evidence that suggests it may not have been used?

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2012/feb/04/jeremy-bamber-murders-ballistics-challenge

I'm also very suspicious that no photograph exists of the 1/4 inch long blood flake, plus the tests in 1999 couldn't find any trace of Shelia and also found the DNA of an unknown male how did that get in there?

[guest2181]

personally in your opinion why has he spent all this time trying to prove his innocence?

and how could he judge that he could commit such a crime and stand next to the police calmly telling lies when apparently he had never committed any sort of violent crime before?

Having once seen someone die in not such violent circumstances I think you would be in shock for hours let alone stand next to your potential jailers?

And if he is guilty and JM is telling the truth - how did she carry on for a month and ID those poor children?

Heck, how can I answer that, most of that is derived from your own issues that you may take if you were to consider JB to be guilty.

Why he protests his innocence,  I don't know, maybe he doesn't want to acknowledge what he's done, or perhaps he values his notorioty. Or maybe he has nothing better to do?
I honestly have no idea.

[David1819]

I agree - if you wrote this as a plan you would be certified as insane .

No you wont  in a legal sense insanity means that you cannot distinguish right from wrong or fantasy from reality

[guest2181]

What do you make of the of evidence that suggests it may not have been used?

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2012/feb/04/jeremy-bamber-murders-ballistics-challenge

I'm also very suspicious that no photograph exists of the 1/4 inch long blood flake, plus the tests in 1999 couldn't find any trace of Shelia and also found the DNA of an unknown male how did that get in there?

I think it's desperate, and I dont believe it to be true.

The CCRC dismissed it and the solicitor who put it together stopped representing Jeremy.

I actually think it was a clever attempt to find a loop hole in the prosecutions case, rather than provide evidence of innocence.

If further submissions show otherwise, then I'd look at it subjectively again.

[Patti]

I think it's desperate, and I dont believe it to be true.

The CCRC dismissed it and the solicitor who put it together stopped representing Jeremy.

I actually think it was a clever attempt to find a loop hole in the prosecutions case, rather than provide evidence of innocence.

If further submissions show otherwise, then I'd look at it subjectively again.

Its all gone very quiet of late.  Does anyone know who is representing Bamber now?

Personally I don't think there will be any new evidence to make any new submissions...

[guest2181]

I'm also very suspicious that no photograph exists of the 1/4 inch long blood flake, plus the tests in 1999 couldn't find any trace of Shelia and also found the DNA of an unknown male how did that get in there?

I don't know whether such a photograph exists or not, either way I don't find that particularly suspicious.

The tests in 1999 found DNA which closely matched a blood relative of Sheila, but it is not sufficient in law to prove that it 'was' from Sheila. I think it's extremely likely however, that it was.
I always assumed the unidentified male DNA was one of the twins, but it's also possible that the highly sensitive LC tests picked up DNA that was from contamination over the years.
In the end, they couldn't even be sure the DNA was derived from blood, the results were largely meaningless.

[guest2181]

Its all gone very quiet of late.  Does anyone know who is representing Bamber now?

Personally I don't think there will be any new evidence to make any new submissions...

I'm not sure anybody is at the moment. I don't know.