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[Jane]

You'd be surprised April. No emotion towards Jeremy whatsoever.It wouldn't matter if it was Joe Egg. It's the injustice that's staring me in the face which enrages me.Jeremy could be anyone,it could even be a Jane,I'd still feel the same having read yards of information attached to the case. I tend not to think of the person themselves,but their background from childhood onwards to get an overall idea of what he or she's about.

But everything you say of him belies that claim. Every time you tell us that "Jeremy would/would never have" you speak as if you know him intimately. Indeed, at times, it sounds as if you know him in greater depth than any one else here which is odd for one as detached as you claim to be.

[lookout]

But everything you say of him belies that claim. Every time you tell us that "Jeremy would/would never have" you speak as if you know him intimately. Indeed, at times, it sounds as if you know him in greater depth than any one else here which is odd for one as detached as you claim to be.

I don't know him at all.I only know of him. It's the case which interests me more than the man,although certain things along the way,particularly in his childhood,I can relate to a lot,so I put myself in his shoes as I look back to my own childhood days,and Sheila's too,and I suppose because of that and the way that I was brought up,has helped me to judge what kind of a person he is.

My past work was a good learning curve as regards being detached.   

[Jane]

I don't know him at all.I only know of him. It's the case which interests me more than the man,although certain things along the way,particularly in his childhood,I can relate to a lot,so I put myself in his shoes as I look back to my own childhood days,and Sheila's too,and I suppose because of that and the way that I was brought up,has helped me to judge what kind of a person he is.

My past work was a good learning curve as regards being detached.   

As do ALL our past experiences but does yours REALLY equip you to adamantly proclaim that Jeremy would have shot them cleanly and efficiently -I use that as an example because I found the claim quite extraordinary- you would need an in depth knowledge of someone to know what was their shooting  capability.

[lookout]

As do ALL our past experiences but does yours REALLY equip you to adamantly proclaim that Jeremy would have shot them cleanly and efficiently -I use that as an example because I found the claim quite extraordinary- you would need an in depth knowledge of someone to know what was their shooting  capability.

Jeremy knew how to shoot vermin,but that's about it so far as I'm concerned. Anyone who had serious thoughts on killing humans would have obtained a suitable gun,not a less-powerful rifle that had to be fired in such a way as to make sure that everyone was dead.
Had Jeremy KNOWN ALL the facts about Sheila's illness,then yes,I'd have said that it WOULD have been him without doubt,but as it happened neither he,nor anyone else knew just what she WAS capable of.

The killings were carried out in the most MAD and frenzied way,that it could only have been executed by someone with very deep emotional problems,and from where I'm sitting,only one person fitted that criteria and that was Sheila.
I make no apologies for saying that Jeremy is innocent,just to fit in with everyone else's views. Like the 2 jury members who obviously had their own personal views,didn't mean that they were " emotionally attached " in any way,or even knew the man.

[Jane]

Jeremy knew how to shoot vermin,but that's about it so far as I'm concerned. Anyone who had serious thoughts on killing humans would have obtained a suitable gun,not a less-powerful rifle that had to be fired in such a way as to make sure that everyone was dead.
Had Jeremy KNOWN ALL the facts about Sheila's illness,then yes,I'd have said that it WOULD have been him without doubt,but as it happened neither he,nor anyone else knew just what she WAS capable of.

The killings were carried out in the most MAD and frenzied way,that it could only have been executed by someone with very deep emotional problems,and from where I'm sitting,only one person fitted that criteria and that was Sheila.
I make no apologies for saying that Jeremy is innocent,just to fit in with everyone else's views. Like the 2 jury members who obviously had their own personal views,didn't mean that they were " emotionally attached " in any way,or even knew the man.

Surely, what you are saying is, if YOU had serious thoughts about killing someone, YOU would have obtained what YOU believed to be a suitable weapon. It would probably make YOUR weapon of choice different from the weapon SELECTED for use.

I argue that there was HUGE rage behind what happened, but that doesn't necessarily denote emotional problems.

I would NEVER expect anyone to change their views JUST to follow everyone else's line of thought.............................but I WOULD view holding on to one's own view as perverse if it's done out of refusal to acknowledge that there could be some truth in the views of others.

[lookout]

Surely, what you are saying is, if YOU had serious thoughts about killing someone, YOU would have obtained what YOU believed to be a suitable weapon. It would probably make YOUR weapon of choice different from the weapon SELECTED for use.

I argue that there was HUGE rage behind what happened, but that doesn't necessarily denote emotional problems.

I would NEVER expect anyone to change their views JUST to follow everyone else's line of thought.............................but I WOULD view holding on to one's own view as perverse if it's done out of refusal to acknowledge that there could be some truth in the views of others.

C,mon April,my choice of weapon would have been a bit easier to have handled as well as more powerful instead of leaving the mess which was a bloodbath by using a .22 for killing rats and rabbits. I'd have taken more care by not ramming rounds of bullets into someone. The way those murders were carried out was horrendous.
Even police/vets use care when shooting a mad dog,or putting a horse down. This WHF killing was madness personified.

I'm NOT being perverse in any way just because I don't agree with any of the views of others. What a strange mind you have ?
I just firmly believe that Jeremy is innocent and I certainly don't see anything wrong in that ? Thank God I'm a level-headed person is all I can say.

[susan]

Hello lookout you are of course allowed to have your own thoughts and beliefs maybe different from mine to an extent but I respect you for your firm stance on your views.  IMO the use of the 22 rifle was to make it more convincing a novice had carried out the murders and not somebody who was use to handling weapons.

[Caroline]

C,mon April,my choice of weapon would have been a bit easier to have handled as well as more powerful instead of leaving the mess which was a bloodbath by using a .22 for killing rats and rabbits. I'd have taken more care by not ramming rounds of bullets into someone. The way those murders were carried out was horrendous.
Even police/vets use care when shooting a mad dog,or putting a horse down. This WHF killing was madness personified.

I'm NOT being perverse in any way just because I don't agree with any of the views of others. What a strange mind you have ?
I just firmly believe that Jeremy is innocent and I certainly don't see anything wrong in that ? Thank God I'm a level-headed person is all I can say.

What excuse would Jeremy have to leave a shot gun out? I guess instead of rabbits, he could have said their were a few marauding elephants out in the yard? :D

[maggie]

Hello lookout you are of course allowed to have your own thoughts and beliefs maybe different from mine to an extent but I respect you for your firm stance on your views.  IMO the use of the 22 rifle was to make it more convincing a novice had carried out the murders and not somebody who was use to handling weapons.

Well said Susan we are all allowed our own thought and opinions and should be able to debate these opinions without feeling bullied or disrespected.
I can see your point about the .22 rifle and accept it is a possibility like Alias I am of the Middle ground, too many assumptions and not enough hard fact to form an opinion.

[lookout]

 Hi Susan. At the very beginning I looked at the aspect of a " copy-cat " type murder where it could have been possible that Jeremy had emulated Sheila's illness,but it didn't work for me with so many other things involved. There was more to it than just sitting back with those thoughts and saying to yourself well that's that,that's how he did it.
Jeremy would have known,probably,that's what people would have thought. He was intelligent enough to have worked that one out.

Intelligent,though he was/is, his attitude got him locked up. It was arrogant and cavalier towards the law,and police don't like that. I don't much care for it myself and can understand why the police must have been riled,as I probably would have been. My own brother was an arrogant sod,always so cock-sure of himself,but he got on in life all the same. I could have choked him for it many a time

This is why I don't see Jeremy as a killer,because of the attitude he displayed. I remember years ago during a personality exam I was doing,I failed on one slide which was shown during the exam. It showed two people sitting at a meeting. One was sitting upright and looked attentive,the other slouched in his chair. I was asked who the confident one was.I answered the former------------wrong ! I tried to argue the toss but it was no good until I realised that the tutor was right. The one slouched,showing a bored expression was the confident one. Which years later I only came to realise.

 

[Caroline]

Hi Susan. At the very beginning I looked at the aspect of a " copy-cat " type murder where it could have been possible that Jeremy had emulated Sheila's illness,but it didn't work for me with so many other things involved. There was more to it than just sitting back with those thoughts and saying to yourself well that's that,that's how he did it.
Jeremy would have known,probably,that's what people would have thought. He was intelligent enough to have worked that one out.

Intelligent,though he was/is, his attitude got him locked up. It was arrogant and cavalier towards the law,and police don't like that. I don't much care for it myself and can understand why the police must have been riled,as I probably would have been. My own brother was an arrogant sod,always so cock-sure of himself,but he got on in life all the same. I could have choked him for it many a time

This is why I don't see Jeremy as a killer,because of the attitude he displayed. I remember years ago during a personality exam I was doing,I failed on one slide which was shown during the exam. It showed two people sitting at a meeting. One was sitting upright and looked attentive,the other slouched in his chair. I was asked who the confident one was.I answered the former------------wrong ! I tried to argue the toss but it was no good until I realised that the tutor was right. The one slouched,showing a bored expression was the confident one. Which years later I only came to realise.

 

You don't always describe Jeremy as intelligent though Lookout?

Your example just describes how confident Jeremy was about getting away with it.

[susan]

Hello lookout

I hear what you say and who am I to say you are wrong as I told Jan last night I look at this case from every angle and my thoughts change daily.  You may have seen the post I made to Scipio last night about the Romeo killer he reminded me so much of Jeremy he was nice to look at confident liked the high life but had little funds and people said he had never shown any signs of violence in his life but killed his Father and nearly his Mother for money in the most horrendous fashion.  Incidents like this make me think perhaps Jeremy is no different and he shows himself as two different people. Why was Sheila so clean and according to Caroline after seeing the original photograph of Ralph Bamber she said Sheila could not have inflicted such injuries to her Dad.  I think this case will never be explained and we will all be left wondering unless the new books due out in the summer provide us with new evidence to convince us one way or another. 

[lookout]

What excuse would Jeremy have to leave a shot gun out? I guess instead of rabbits, he could have said their were a few marauding elephants out in the yard? :D

But HE didn't leave a shot-gun out,unless you know differently of course.I believe all the guns were scattered about ?

[lookout]

You don't always describe Jeremy as intelligent though Lookout?

Your example just describes how confident Jeremy was about getting away with it.

I've always said he was intelligent----------but not clever. Also I've described him as being gormless too,which he most likely was at not being sharp enough to notice that his relatives disliked him intensely or would one day gang up on him. He took everyone at face value in other words.

Jeremy was showing the confidence that he DIDN'T do it,hence his arrogant remark to the officer by telling him that it was " for him to find out ". Something which my own brother would have said.

[Caroline]

But HE didn't leave a shot-gun out,unless you know differently of course.I believe all the guns were scattered about ?

That's not what I meant - you said you wouldn't have used a .22 - so what would you have used? A shotgun?