Author Topic: Bambers Application for Prerogative of Pardon 2005  (Read 20201 times)

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Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: Bambers Application for Prerogative of Pardon 2005
« Reply #195 on: February 25, 2015, 07:08:PM »
Where did I say I was on the fence? I said no such thing neither have I ever said such a thing. I said that I am not a Bamber supporter but rather a supporter of justice. You I think would rather belong to an 18th century lynch mob.
I pick holes in your opinons, but you are so thick that you carry on believing your scenarios in spite of the fact they are based entirely upon prejudice.

1) I laid out what a rational evaluation of the claims and evidence would look like and far from poking holes in my points you simply responded that Julie is a liar.

2) declaring Julie to be a liar without any evidence to support it and ability to establish it sounds a lot like exhibiting prejudice

3) Numerous times in the past you attacked me for calling you a Jeremy supporter and swore you were on the fence.  It was like when biblical Peter denied the Lord 3 times before the cock crowed.

If you really want me to find your posts and embarrass you I will but it would be better to simply turn over a new slate, admit where you stand in terms of your agenda and then trying making well supported arguments in spite of your agenda. It is your call whether you want me to go find your posts and embarrass you or you want to just move on.  I assure you I didn't dream your professions of objectivity up.   
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Mr. Gee

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Re: Bambers Application for Prerogative of Pardon 2005
« Reply #196 on: February 25, 2015, 07:18:PM »
1) I laid out what a rational evaluation of the claims and evidence would look like and far from poking holes in my points you simply responded that Julie is a liar.

2) declaring Julie to be a liar without any evidence to support it and ability to establish it sounds a lot like exhibiting prejudice

3) Numerous times in the past you attacked me for calling you a Jeremy supporter and swore you were on the fence.  It was like when biblical Peter denied the Lord 3 times before the cock crowed.

If you really want me to find your posts and embarrass you I will but it would be better to simply turn over a new slate, admit where you stand in terms of your agenda and then trying making well supported arguments in spite of your agenda. It is your call whether you want me to go find your posts and embarrass you or you want to just move on.  I assure you I didn't dream your professions of objectivity up.   
Again you ommitted to acknowledge the evidence that she was a liar that I gave. I shall repeat what I said which is quite a valid and logical point. She would lie because she was a love sick jilted woman. The relationship ended and she wanted to get back at Bamber and that is how she did it.
Where is your evidence that her private alleged conversations with Bamber are true?

Mr. Gee

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Re: Bambers Application for Prerogative of Pardon 2005
« Reply #197 on: February 25, 2015, 07:19:PM »
1) I laid out what a rational evaluation of the claims and evidence would look like and far from poking holes in my points you simply responded that Julie is a liar.

2) declaring Julie to be a liar without any evidence to support it and ability to establish it sounds a lot like exhibiting prejudice

3) Numerous times in the past you attacked me for calling you a Jeremy supporter and swore you were on the fence.  It was like when biblical Peter denied the Lord 3 times before the cock crowed.

If you really want me to find your posts and embarrass you I will but it would be better to simply turn over a new slate, admit where you stand in terms of your agenda and then trying making well supported arguments in spite of your agenda. It is your call whether you want me to go find your posts and embarrass you or you want to just move on.  I assure you I didn't dream your professions of objectivity up.   
Show me any particular post where I have said I was "on the fence". I don't believe I have ever used that expression? I've tried to be fair if that is what you mean? I have acknowledged difficulties and have praise other for good posts even though I don't agree with them.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2015, 07:20:PM by Mr. Gee »

Mr. Gee

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Re: Bambers Application for Prerogative of Pardon 2005
« Reply #198 on: February 25, 2015, 07:23:PM »
Scipio go ahead and find the posts. I will not be embarrassed. Because I am not self obsessed as some are and am on record for apologising and acknowledging my errors. But I don't think I have ever used the expression "on the fence" in regard to myself?
« Last Edit: February 25, 2015, 07:37:PM by Mr. Gee »

Offline susan

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Re: Bambers Application for Prerogative of Pardon 2005
« Reply #199 on: February 25, 2015, 07:24:PM »
Scipio to be totally honest with you I have never thought Mr. Gee was on the fence I have heard him say many times that he did not like Jeremy Bamber but thought he had a very unfair trial and I think Mr Gee is more interested in Justice.  I am not saying he has never said he was on the fence but I have never seen that.

Offline Alias

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Re: Bambers Application for Prerogative of Pardon 2005
« Reply #200 on: February 25, 2015, 07:28:PM »
Scipio to be totally honest with you I have never thought Mr. Gee was on the fence I have heard him say many times that he did not like Jeremy Bamber but thought he had a very unfair trial and I think Mr Gee is more interested in Justice.  I am not saying he has never said he was on the fence but I have never seen that.

I can´t recall seeing it either.
I am sure there are little busy bees trawling through old threads to clear it up for us.  ;)

Offline susan

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Re: Bambers Application for Prerogative of Pardon 2005
« Reply #201 on: February 25, 2015, 07:33:PM »
Alias how can anyone be bothered if Mr Gee is on the fence falls off the fence gets up on the wrong side does it matter NO.  He is just a nice genuine guy who has no badness in him he looses it now and then as do most of us some express themselves in a different manner but it means the same as Mr.Gee and his swearing just different words from the English Language ;D ;D ;D

guest154

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Re: Bambers Application for Prerogative of Pardon 2005
« Reply #202 on: February 25, 2015, 07:36:PM »
I think the word grahame used was "neutral".

Mr. Gee

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Re: Bambers Application for Prerogative of Pardon 2005
« Reply #203 on: February 25, 2015, 07:37:PM »
I think the word grahame used was "neutral".
Yes mat I think that word springs to mind to me as well? Some times I appear to be and it is probably me  trying to understand the opposite argument? Make no mistake I think scipio makes some good arguments, he just needs a good kicking sometimes. ::)
« Last Edit: February 25, 2015, 07:40:PM by Mr. Gee »

Offline Alias

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Re: Bambers Application for Prerogative of Pardon 2005
« Reply #204 on: February 25, 2015, 07:39:PM »
I think the word grahame used was "neutral".

As far as I remember, that is what he said.

Offline susan

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Re: Bambers Application for Prerogative of Pardon 2005
« Reply #205 on: February 25, 2015, 07:43:PM »
Hello Mat/Alias I must have missed that I always thought Grahame thought Jeremy was innocent but EP messed up big time and I always felt he was more interested in British Justice.

Mr. Gee

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Re: Bambers Application for Prerogative of Pardon 2005
« Reply #206 on: February 25, 2015, 07:47:PM »
Hello Mat/Alias I must have missed that I always thought Grahame thought Jeremy was innocent but EP messed up big time and I always felt he was more interested in British Justice.
Susan. Sometimes I wonder if he is guilty after all. But then I think that certain things don't fit? I am totally interested in British Justice because I fear that we rarely see it? As regards the Bamber case I am convinced that some of those coppers were crooked.

Offline susan

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Re: Bambers Application for Prerogative of Pardon 2005
« Reply #207 on: February 25, 2015, 07:59:PM »
Grahame I agree with every word you have just said.  I can think he is guilty then I cannot get bits to fit so I try and keep an open mind. 

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: Bambers Application for Prerogative of Pardon 2005
« Reply #208 on: February 25, 2015, 08:04:PM »
Scipio to be totally honest with you I have never thought Mr. Gee was on the fence I have heard him say many times that he did not like Jeremy Bamber but thought he had a very unfair trial and I think Mr Gee is more interested in Justice.  I am not saying he has never said he was on the fence but I have never seen that.

He has posted at various times that he is not a supporter and on the fence.  To be sure he stated things like you say such as:

"Just to clarify my position on the Bamber case. I am not a Bamber supporter I am a free thinker on this and a believer in justice. The accusation by some people whose thinking has been polarized to that they cannot see except in one direction alone reminds me of a story that was born out of the troubles in Northern Ireland. A man was held up at gunpoint and asked, "Are you a Catholic or a Protestant". The man relied, " I'm an Atheist". To which came the confused reply, "Yes, but are you Catholic Atheist, or a Protestant Atheist?"

These people remind me of those gunmen. The believe I must be one or the other? In other words if I do not hold to certain views of theirs then it is obvious that I must be a Bamber supporter even though I say I am not. Then they are further confused when I ask questions and have doubts about Bamber and so they come to the conclusion that I am lying and must still be a Bamber supporter.

I am posting this not only to try and clarify where I am in relation to Bamber's guilt or innocence, but also to highlight the inability for these people to look at this case with an open mind and having an open mind, to look at the evidence from all sides instead of having a closed mind on the subject. This I believe is the only way to look at this case fairly and without prejudice. Sadly it is the position of so few on this forum? All I am doing is trying to keep a balanced mind in all this."

The problem is that time and again he demonstrates he is not approaching it with balance as he claims he is doing. Nor is he raising valid arguments about getting an unfair trial.  He constantly raises claims of Jeremy being innocent and Julie the police etc all lying without having evidence to support such claims thus demonstrating he is operating on bias.

Earlier tonight he said Julie was a liar and when challenged for proof of this all he could come up with was to say she because she was jilted it means she lied.  All this amounts to objectively is a motivation for her to possibly lie it doesn't establish she did lie let alone lied out of such motivation.  I went through all the main evidence in support of her claims and discussed how if she were going to make up a claim Jeremy confessed that she would have made up  the claim he confessed to doing it himself not made up a hitman claim and identify someone who would be able to prove her claims false.  Grahame ignored all these considerations and simply has decided Julie lied without undertaking the rational assessment and approach he professes to use.

Grahame among other Jeremy supports have a very dim view of police and that bias seems to paly a large role in what they choose to believe.  Their dim view of police not personal love of Jeremy results in supporting him.  It is still bias though as opposed to following the evidence where it leads.

Since there is no solid evidence to rebut any of the evidence that convicted Jeremy there is some blind faith engaged in by his supporters. That blind faith often relies on distrust of the police and family more than anything else.  Thinking that police might have framed Jeremy though there is no evidence of it is by definition speculation not established fact.  Some go beyond speculating it is possible and insist it did happen. Speculating is one thing it is a leap of faith if you believe it definitely happened. 

Grahame professes to be objective hoping that somehow will give him more credibility.  It actually gives you less when you unsuccessfully try to conceal that you have an agenda.  He should be concentrating on looking for evidence to back up his claims not professing his objectivity.



 
 

Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline susan

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Re: Bambers Application for Prerogative of Pardon 2005
« Reply #209 on: February 25, 2015, 08:13:PM »
Scipio he may have said that but I never saw it.  Loved the bit about the Atheist now that is what I call boxing clever ;D

I think you as a Lawyer will look at the case without any emotion and objectively but such as myself I do struggle to fit the bits together but in saying that I find it easier to believe Jeremy is the guilty one not Sheila I could be wrong of course.