From Julie Mugford's statements to her 'compelling evidence'

[Roch]

Mike,

if you have copies of different and differing statements by JM, within the evidence available to you, is it possible you could post these?  Perhaps in chronological order?  This would allow posters to test the theory that JM may have been 'coached'.  It might help posters to assess how far any alleged statements from JB to JM may have been 'adjusted'. 

[FredPerry]

nn ink it has  been mentioned once before,but isn't it just possible JM wasn't in fact being "coached" but that the police wanted to ensure she was telling the truth and did not change details of her story, particularly under pressure etc ? After all they would hardly want their main witness to be lying, it would be a complete waste of their time to put her on the stand otherwise!

[FredPerry]

Sorry should say I think  at start

[Hartley]

I think it has  been mentioned once before,but isn't it just possible JM wasn't in fact being "coached" but that the police wanted to ensure she was telling the truth and did not change details of her story, particularly under pressure etc ? After all they would hardly want their main witness to be lying, it would be a complete waste of their time to put her on the stand otherwise!

Of course it's possible and has been accepted by the courts.

The unsubstantiated claims of lying or being coached is just a theory without evidence.

[grahameb]

nn ink it has  been mentioned once before,but isn't it just possible JM wasn't in fact being "coached" but that the police wanted to ensure she was telling the truth and did not change details of her story, particularly under pressure etc ? After all they would hardly want their main witness to be lying, it would be a complete waste of their time to put her on the stand otherwise!

That seems to be the logical line to take. To continually interview her to see if there are any inconsistencies in her story. I simply don't buy the theory that EP wanted to convict JB no matter what? Anyway it is the counsel's job to "coach" the witness. And they do it because they want what is said in the witness box to match what they have in her written statement. They all do it. It is normal practice. Every counsel wants to win a case and they will do it within the law. To hell with justice, as long as it is within the framework of the law. And so that is why not everything is brought out in court even vital evidence sometimes will be left out because it doesn't fit within their framework.

[lebaleb]

Reading about JM's testemony
http://www.homepage-link.to/JUSTICE/judgements/Bamber/index.html
section 107,
She states that Jeremy told her that there was a bit of a problem with Neville putting up a fight and that Shiela had been told to lie down and shoot herself last. Strangely, no mention of the difficulties with the silencer. Since according to JM, Jeremy had no problem confessing to her all the details, why would he leave out the crucial part when he realised Shiela couldn't reach the trigger with the silencer attached? Plus why would he say the bible was on her chest when the photos show it on the floor next to her??

[Kaldin]

Reading about JM's testemony
http://www.homepage-link.to/JUSTICE/judgements/Bamber/index.html
section 107,
She states that Jeremy told her that there was a bit of a problem with Neville putting up a fight and that Shiela had been told to lie down and shoot herself last. Strangely, no mention of the difficulties with the silencer. Since according to JM, Jeremy had no problem confessing to her all the details, why would he leave out the crucial part when he realised Shiela couldn't reach the trigger with the silencer attached? Plus why would he say the bible was on her chest when the photos show it on the floor next to her??

I agree. Also, if Sheila was told to shoot to herself and that's what she did, then there would be no reason for the killer to move her body afterwards or plant her hand on the gun.

I'm not at all convinced that the Bible was not moved - the blood stains on it are strange and at some point someone closed it and opened it again. You can see where the blood from one page is mirrored on the other page. Whether it was originally on her chest is not clear.

Jeremy apparently told Julie that Nevill had put up a fight so he had been shot seven times. There was no mention of him being shot in the bedroom first.

If Jeremy really did tell Julie that story he got a lot of it wrong considering he was supposed to have been there carrying out the murders himself.

[grahameb]

Reading about JM's testemony
http://www.homepage-link.to/JUSTICE/judgements/Bamber/index.html
section 107,
She states that Jeremy told her that there was a bit of a problem with Neville putting up a fight and that Shiela had been told to lie down and shoot herself last. Strangely, no mention of the difficulties with the silencer. Since according to JM, Jeremy had no problem confessing to her all the details, why would he leave out the crucial part when he realised Shiela couldn't reach the trigger with the silencer attached? Plus why would he say the bible was on her chest when the photos show it on the floor next to her??

If anyone reading this was told by someone to lie down and shoot yourself how many would do it?

[clifford]

Reading about JM's testemony
http://www.homepage-link.to/JUSTICE/judgements/Bamber/index.html
section 107,
She states that Jeremy told her that there was a bit of a problem with Neville putting up a fight and that Shiela had been told to lie down and shoot herself last. Strangely, no mention of the difficulties with the silencer. Since according to JM, Jeremy had no problem confessing to her all the details, why would he leave out the crucial part when he realised Shiela couldn't reach the trigger with the silencer attached? Plus why would he say the bible was on her chest when the photos show it on the floor next to her??

If anyone reading this was told by someone to lie down and shoot yourself how many would do it?

If she had just seen the slaughter of her family, especually her children she may of just wanted to die.

[smiffy]

Grahame posted;

If anyone reading this was told by someone to lie down and shoot yourself how many would do it?


hmm very few I would think...however who knows what any particular person with a schizophrenic condition may do...especially unpredictable if having a delusion brought on ...say if a killer was killing the others??

someone who hands you a firearm  ..loaded......after they killed others in your family..or before...why not shoot the person telling you what to do!!!!

[Alias]

Grahame posted;

If anyone reading this was told by someone to lie down and shoot yourself how many would do it?


hmm very few I would think...however who knows what any particular person with a schizophrenic condition may do...especially unpredictable if having a delusion brought on ...say if a killer was killing the others??

someone who hands you a firearm  ..loaded......after they killed others in your family..or before...why not shoot the person telling you what to do!!!!

Personally I find that very, very unlikely!
It could be interesting to start a thread about inconsistencies, unlikely claims and perhaps even lies in Julie Mugford´s testimony, going through it systematically and meticulously. To me there seem to be many. I don´t want to start such a thread, since as a noob, I don´t know if it has already been done. Has it?

[Jackiepreece]

Cliff i disagree with you i cant think of a single women that would lay down and shoot herself if her children had just been killed more likely completely flip out and have the strength of an ox

There is no way she would do that if her children had been killed

[Alias]

Cliff i disagree with you i cant think of a single women that would lay down and shoot herself if her children had just been killed more likely completely flip out and have the strength of an ox

There is no way she would do that if her children had been killed

I agree. She would have fought to try to save her kids. People are in denial right after a loved one passes away - I don´t think it would have sunk in that her kids were really dead. She would have put up one hell of a resistance - yet she is lying there looking almost peaceful - that is strange!

[sandy]

It is the same old story, making comments without knowing the facts.  Sheila was taking medication for her condition which left her sedated. What would you do if a gun was pushed in your face hero??

Sheila would not have know anyone was dead, let alone her two sons.

[Jackiepreece]

I dont know anything about suicide but she seemed a really troubled soul maybe she felt at peace before killing herself

I hate it when people say suicide victims are selfish because you would not really know what you were doing I used to work with a nice guy he had only got married a year before and he was an only child and he was only 23 he started a new job at a hotel in Colchester as a trainee manager and he was only there 3 months and one night he went into the hotel garage and hung himself and before he had hung himself he had tried to cut his wrists.  He left no note and i think of sheila shooting herself twice if the first bullet hadnt killed her.  In her head she just wanted some peace i know colin thought she was capable of suicide so was her doctor