Why did Neville make such a very very bad decision ?

[Adam]

Well, Jeremy's WS DOESN'T and as you're the one who so frequently refers to the wording of them, I suggest you quote ONLY what is in them, if only to prevent more myths occurring. Just because YOU think strange the words we are told Nevill said, it doesn't give you the right to change them to the one's YOU deem appropriate.

I am happy to go by what his WS says. It makes him seem more guilty in my view. Neville just ringing him and making an eight word statement before cutting the call off. The whole process taking about 5 seconds.

Neville having the time to spend several minutes speaking to the police several minutes later.

[Jane]

I am happy to go by what his WS says. It makes him seem more guilty in my view. Neville just ringing him and making an eight word statement before cutting the call off. The whole process taking about 5 seconds.

Neville having the time to spend several minutes speaking to the police several minutes later.

Adam. I'm curious to learn what variables you believe there are within a guilty -or even NON guilty- verdict.

[Mr. Gee]

It doesn't matter what JM says - were talking about what Jeremy says and it doesn't add up. His times are the one's that SHOULD add up IF he's innocent and he shouldn't NEED to change times at a later stage because there is only one truth, it doesn't alter just because you think you might have found a loop hole years later!

It's just a hunch, but if the same thing happened to me I shouldn't think I would have a watch with me just to time when everything happened. In fact I would be surprised if everything fitted together like a perfect jigsaw.

[Mr. Gee]

I am happy to go by what his WS says. It makes him seem more guilty in my view. Neville just ringing him and making an eight word statement before cutting the call off. The whole process taking about 5 seconds.

Neville having the time to spend several minutes speaking to the police several minutes later.

Times and timing only come tend to come into play when people write statements. One day our school was being burgled. They didn't get anything, but I chased the two guys through the school and off the premises. About a week later a policeman came round and asked me to make a statement. For the life of me I couldn't remember the time. I wonder if any of us could tell at what time they did certain things on a certain day a week ago and in which order they did them? I personally don't put too much weight onto the timings of certain events in this case, neither what order in which they took place. That to my mind is common sense thinking.
Another thing to consider is that if Bamber was going to lie about timings and such logically he would have worked it all out before he phoned the police.

[Adam]

Times and timing only come tend to come into play when people write statements. One day our school was being burgled. They didn't get anything, but I chased the two guys through the school and off the premises. About a week later a policeman came round and asked me to make a statement. For the life of me I couldn't remember the time. I wonder if any of us could tell at what time they did certain things on a certain day a week ago and in which order they did them? I personally don't put too much weight onto the timings of certain events in this case, neither what order in which they took place. That to my mind is common sense thinking.
Another thing to consider is that if Bamber was going to lie about timings and such logically he would have worked it all out before he phoned the police.

Well the post you quoted does not mention clock times. Just that Neville's eight word phone call to Jeremy would last about 5 seconds and would not really benefit either party.

Thought Neville would say 'Jeremy it's dad, I need you're help, please come over quickly. Sheila's gone crazy and needs calming down. She's got one of my rifles. Don't ring the police. I will leave the front door open for you. Do you understand ?'.

That would take 25 seconds.

[Caroline]

It's just a hunch, but if the same thing happened to me I shouldn't think I would have a watch with me just to time when everything happened. In fact I would be surprised if everything fitted together like a perfect jigsaw.

It's human nature to check the clock/watch if you get a call in the early hours of the morning.

[Adam]

Neville would be unaware that Jeremy could get in through windows. So between his 3.10am call to him, and his 3.26am call to the police, I thought he would have left the front door open. He didn't.

[Jane]

Neville would be unaware that Jeremy could get in through windows. So between his 3.10am call to him, and his 3.26am call to the police, I thought he would have left the front door open. He didn't.

WHY would Nevill be unaware that Jeremy could get in through a window. It seems he AND other family members had been doing it since childhood. You don't need to put your own spin on ANYTHING to make him sound guilty. The jury did it for you 30 years ago.

[lookout]

Even PE took an interest how,by using a file,you could get in via a window. Strange,that.

[lookout]

Even PE took an interest how,by using a file,you could get in via a window. Strange,that.

Which he'd only said a day or two after the murders.

[guest154]

It doesn't matter what JM says - were talking about what Jeremy says and it doesn't add up. His times are the one's that SHOULD add up IF he's innocent and he shouldn't NEED to change times at a later stage because there is only one truth, it doesn't alter just because you think you might have found a loop hole years later!

Loophole is the perfect word for Jeremy's changing story.

[Jan]

an observation . Even if JB had been accurate with his times and not waivered at all, the police were "allowed" to make mistakes , as were Julie and her flatmates - it would not have made a blind bit of difference . Because it would be his word against theirs. And as it appears to me the phone timings were all over the place, the police account - despite station clocks that were wrong and accounts being written down wrong would probably have prevailed.

as none of us KNOW who was telling the truth its a bit pointless arguing about it really.


The main question would be if EP and JM and her friends were persuaded to change the times of the call then why would that be - what would it achieve.
 
Its a bit like the Witham Question - its JB against EP - Why would JB deny it id it happened?

If it did not happen why did EP want it to be recorded that someone made a call to Witham?

[Jan]

Why are you using a pic of someone you hate with a vengeance ? I find that quite insane.
Surely,a person like yourself would not wish to see anything connected to the man ? I certainly wouldn't use a pic of Myra Hindley to get my point across,her face makes me feel physically sick.

I think it's sad that you feel you have to be noticed in this way !!

I agree Lookout.

[Caroline]

an observation . Even if JB had been accurate with his times and not waivered at all, the police were "allowed" to make mistakes , as were Julie and her flatmates - it would not have made a blind bit of difference . Because it would be his word against theirs. And as it appears to me the phone timings were all over the place, the police account - despite station clocks that were wrong and accounts being written down wrong would probably have prevailed.

as none of us KNOW who was telling the truth its a bit pointless arguing about it really.


The main question would be if EP and JM and her friends were persuaded to change the times of the call then why would that be - what would it achieve.
 
Its a bit like the Witham Question - its JB against EP - Why would JB deny it id it happened?

If it did not happen why did EP want it to be recorded that someone made a call to Witham?

When people change the times, it makes them look suspicious, this goes for Jeremy too, you surely have to admit that?

[Jan]

A lot of discussion on Neville's call to Jeremy has been on why Neville would not phone Jeremy. However what is the main reason he would phone ?

Despite several options, Neville obviously felt Jeremy was the best option. Rather than telephoning  other relatives, waking June, or telephoning the Foakes's.  And a better option than the police unless you believe Neville actually called them.

Neville hoped/expected Jeremy to rush over, force entry into WHF  and restrain/calm down Sheila. As well as not involve the police as Neville liked to keep things private.

Quite why Neville and June could not restrain/calm down Sheila themselves I do not know. If they couldn't, there is no reason Jeremy could if/when he arrived at WHF. Neville was also putting Jeremy in danger.

Why did Neville make such a very very bad decision ?

Jeremy did the complete opposite to what Neville expected/hoped. Ringing the police after 26 minutes and then not leaving his cottage until phoning Julie and putting on several layers of clothes.  Then driving very slowly to WHF, rather than rushing over.

Upon arriving at WHF he made no attempt to go within 50 feet of WHF. Unwilling to attempt to restrain and calm down Sheila as Neville hoped/expected. He failed to tell the police he knew of ways inside WHF.

Perhaps Jeremy was scared and confused. Which is understandable. Neville obviously felt he would be brave and focused, willing to risk his own life and attempt to save his family. Although Neville would have to leave the front door open for Jeremy, something he did not do.

Jeremy also had a very poor relationship with Sheila. Telling the police she would not be pleased to see him and saying several distasteful things to the police about her.  Admitting himself decades later he did not understand her illness. Surely Neville knew this. He was both their father.

Neville was not stupid and  knew Jeremy better than anyone. Why do people believe Neville made such a bad judgement call in such a serious situation at 3am ?

You know the answer to this . If the call was made there was very good reason why NB could not have calmed her down . Just look at the statement from Freddie Emani - your answer is there .

As you said he did not like to involve family members - Anne and others admitted they had no idea of the extent of Sheilas illness . Perhaps they were ashamed ? Some people in those days were . ( I hope people are better educated these days )

And was it a mistake?

I don't quite know how you can even ask this . Its a bit obvious . And I am sure if she had fired a shot by the time he called then he would have called the police.