Author Topic: Photographic still image taken from crime scene video - The shocking truth...  (Read 75638 times)

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Offline Alias

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There are many examples of prisoners being exhonerated after decades. Some people must have kept their mouths shut for all that time.

Offline scipio_usmc

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There are many examples of prisoners being exhonerated after decades. Some people must have kept their mouths shut for all that time.

Can you name a case where someone was exonerated where there was a vast conspiracy of the kind being alleged to have happened here?

Exonerations that far down the road happen when a key witness changes their story (and that witness was the main if not only evidence in the case), a cop admits to lying or planting evidence or new analysis of physical evidence is done (for instance when the criminal left blood/sperm behind and they test such for DNA to see if it matched the DNA of the convict) .  Grand conspiracies of the scale claimed are not known to have ever happened, no one ended up admitted to being part of such and helping establish such happened.

Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline Alias

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Can you name a case where someone was exonerated where there was a vast conspiracy of the kind being alleged to have happened here?

Exonerations that far down the road happen when a key witness changes their story (and that witness was the main if not only evidence in the case), a cop admits to lying or planting evidence or new analysis of physical evidence is done (for instance when the criminal left blood/sperm behind and they test such for DNA to see if it matched the DNA of the convict) .  Grand conspiracies of the scale claimed are not known to have ever happened, no one ended up admitted to being part of such and helping establish such happened.

Unfortunately they destroyed physical evidence in this case, so no DNA tests here....

(We have been here before, no need for another novel! I know what you will say....)

Offline David1819

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Can you name a case where someone was exonerated where there was a vast conspiracy of the kind being alleged to have happened here?

Exonerations that far down the road happen when a key witness changes their story (and that witness was the main if not only evidence in the case), a cop admits to lying or planting evidence or new analysis of physical evidence is done (for instance when the criminal left blood/sperm behind and they test such for DNA to see if it matched the DNA of the convict) .  Grand conspiracies of the scale claimed are not known to have ever happened, no one ended up admitted to being part of such and helping establish such happened.

You don't need a conspiracy as such where the police know your innocent but frame you. Its more the police become convinced your guilty and are under pressure to prosecute and it ends up distorting the investigation. Look into this case of stefan kiszko

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Lesley_Molseed


Offline David1819

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Can you name a case where someone was exonerated where there was a vast conspiracy of the kind being alleged to have happened here?

Exonerations that far down the road happen when a key witness changes their story (and that witness was the main if not only evidence in the case), a cop admits to lying or planting evidence or new analysis of physical evidence is done (for instance when the criminal left blood/sperm behind and they test such for DNA to see if it matched the DNA of the convict) .  Grand conspiracies of the scale claimed are not known to have ever happened, no one ended up admitted to being part of such and helping establish such happened.

Quote
The manslaughter claim undermined Kiszko's claims that he was totally innocent and destroyed his alibis (a defence known in legal parlance as 'riding two horses'). In fact, his innocence could have been demonstrated at the trial. The pathologist who examined Molseed's clothes found traces of sperm, whereas the sample taken from Kiszko by the police contained no sperm. There was medical evidence that Kiszko had broken his ankle some months before the murder and, in view of that and his being overweight, he would have found it difficult to scale the slope to the murder spot. The sperm findings were suppressed by the police and never disclosed to the defence team or the jury; neither was the medical evidence of his broken ankle disclosed to the court.

Offline Caroline

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You don't need a conspiracy as such where the police know your innocent but frame you. Its more the police become convinced your guilty and are under pressure to prosecute and it ends up distorting the investigation. Look into this case of stefan kiszko

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Lesley_Molseed

I was just going to mention Stefan.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2015, 10:27:PM by Caroline »
Few people have the imagination for reality

Offline Alias

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There is this case in the USA, Ryan Ferguson, convicted of murder.
Two who had witnessed against him stepped forward after some years and said they had lied initially - that didn´t impress the authorities....
Both witnesses said they were coerced to lie by the police.

From old article:
Ryan Ferguson:  "It's scary knowing that they're not looking for the truth, they're looking for a conviction… I might never have a chance to get my life back again."
http://abcnews.go.com/US/missouri-man-spent-decade-prison-murder-claims-innocence/story?id=20523262

He was finally freed in 2013 after a decade in prison, his youth gone out the window.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryan_W._Ferguson

If Ferguson had not had support from the outside and a good lawyer work for him pro bono, he would still be rotting in jail.

Another case The West Memphis Three (Google it if you don´t know the case). No one has stepped forward, but they had support on the outside, new evidence has come to light, but I guess the State of Arkansas feared to have to pay the three massive amounts, so they hurried to give them an Alford Plea- One of them freed from death row.
A killer of three innocent eight year olds is still running around free - State of Arkansas and its police couln´t care less.
It is a huge case, if you have an interest in it, please Google, can´t go into detail.
The three convicted spent 18 years in prison - their youths out the window too.

There are lots and lots of cases like that.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2015, 10:36:PM by Alias »

Offline Jan

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and the police have admitted their "tactics" from the 80s  so we know it happened.

Theresa May is trying to change the rules to give protection for "whstleblowers"  because we all know what happened to them in the past.

Offline scipio_usmc

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You don't need a conspiracy as such where the police know your innocent but frame you. Its more the police become convinced your guilty and are under pressure to prosecute and it ends up distorting the investigation. Look into this case of stefan kiszko

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Lesley_Molseed

The grand conspiracy that would be necessary for Jeremy to be innocent requires the lab, police, Julie and the family to have all conspired together.  It would have required a significant undertaking.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2015, 12:25:AM by scipio_usmc »
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline scipio_usmc

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There is this case in the USA, Ryan Ferguson, convicted of murder.
Two who had witnessed against him stepped forward after some years and said they had lied initially - that didn´t impress the authorities....
Both witnesses said they were coerced to lie by the police.

From old article:
Ryan Ferguson:  "It's scary knowing that they're not looking for the truth, they're looking for a conviction… I might never have a chance to get my life back again."
http://abcnews.go.com/US/missouri-man-spent-decade-prison-murder-claims-innocence/story?id=20523262

He was finally freed in 2013 after a decade in prison, his youth gone out the window.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryan_W._Ferguson

If Ferguson had not had support from the outside and a good lawyer work for him pro bono, he would still be rotting in jail.

Another case The West Memphis Three (Google it if you don´t know the case). No one has stepped forward, but they had support on the outside, new evidence has come to light, but I guess the State of Arkansas feared to have to pay the three massive amounts, so they hurried to give them an Alford Plea- One of them freed from death row.
A killer of three innocent eight year olds is still running around free - State of Arkansas and its police couln´t care less.
It is a huge case, if you have an interest in it, please Google, can´t go into detail.
The three convicted spent 18 years in prison - their youths out the window too.

There are lots and lots of cases like that.

Going to police to say you think you were involved in a murder is bizarre.  In any event there wasn't a vast conspiracy of the nature required for Jeremy to be innocent.

For Jeremy to be innocent the lab had to decide to frame Jeremy by planting blood in the moderator, paint on the moderator and concealing the finding of blood in the rifle.  Also to have doctored evidence so that spatter of the victims on Sheila and GSR/lead on Sheila was concealed. Also to get the family and police to lie and to have police go back and doctor records in addition to the lab doctoring records.  The notion the lab would trust police and the family to keep quiet is absurd.  They also would have to have gotten Julie to lie.  This still would not account for the bible being placed in a puddle of blood that formed after Sheila's death.  That still is evidence someone else had to be there. So not even a conspiracy claim can explain away everything.

Raising cases where prosecutors withheld evidence or police coerced statements from people doesn't even start to approach the conspiracy that had to take place in this case for Jeremy to be innocent.

Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline Patti

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Going to police to say you think you were involved in a murder is bizarre.  In any event there wasn't a vast conspiracy of the nature required for Jeremy to be innocent.

For Jeremy to be innocent the lab had to decide to frame Jeremy by planting blood in the moderator, paint on the moderator and concealing the finding of blood in the rifle.  Also to have doctored evidence so that spatter of the victims on Sheila and GSR/lead on Sheila was concealed. Also to get the family and police to lie and to have police go back and doctor records in addition to the lab doctoring records.  The notion the lab would trust police and the family to keep quiet is absurd.  They also would have to have gotten Julie to lie.  This still would not account for the bible being placed in a puddle of blood that formed after Sheila's death.  That still is evidence someone else had to be there. So not even a conspiracy claim can explain away everything.

Raising cases where prosecutors withheld evidence or police coerced statements from people doesn't even start to approach the conspiracy that had to take place in this case for Jeremy to be innocent.

Its not about framing though is it? Its about failing to investigate a crime scene using proper procedures at the onset.

Allowing a member of the raid team to use the phone is one example.  Failing to take proper samples from the crime scene, failing to take swabs from Sheila's hands prior to being placed in bags, allowing the crime scene to get contaminated, failing to search the premises, failing to remove all weapons from the crime scene, delaying entrance to the building, failing to take statements from the raid team on the day, altering the statement that Colin made, asking AE not to mention the taking of black canvas shoes, failing to tell the truth that an off duty copper escorted two witnesses to the bank, destroying evidence when a man is claiming he is innocent. So, its nothing to do with lab technicians, all they did were send  hand swabs back because they arrived with weapons and there was a risk of contamination, also the silencer was at risk....There was no framing going on at all.  The crime fit and in 1986 Jeremy was found guilty by 10-2 verdict.  There is no evidence to support his innocence, or maybe there was, but that has been destroyed in 1996.  Is it possible that Jeremy killed his family, of course it is, but its also possible that he might not have.  ;D ;D ;D ;D

Offline scipio_usmc

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Its not about framing though is it? Its about failing to investigate a crime scene using proper procedures at the onset.

Allowing a member of the raid team to use the phone is one example.  Failing to take proper samples from the crime scene, failing to take swabs from Sheila's hands prior to being placed in bags, allowing the crime scene to get contaminated, failing to search the premises, failing to remove all weapons from the crime scene, delaying entrance to the building, failing to take statements from the raid team on the day, altering the statement that Colin made, asking AE not to mention the taking of black canvas shoes, failing to tell the truth that an off duty copper escorted two witnesses to the bank, destroying evidence when a man is claiming he is innocent. So, its nothing to do with lab technicians, all they did were send  hand swabs back because they arrived with weapons and there was a risk of contamination, also the silencer was at risk....There was no framing going on at all.  The crime fit and in 1986 Jeremy was found guilty by 10-2 verdict.  There is no evidence to support his innocence, or maybe there was, but that has been destroyed in 1996.  Is it possible that Jeremy killed his family, of course it is, but its also possible that he might not have.  ;D ;D ;D ;D

The only way Jeremy could be innocent is if he was framed and even that still is not enough to account for certain things.  The sloppy police efforts might have harmed their chance of getting an even stronger case against Jeremy but there is nothing that suggests anything was lost that could have established his innocence.  GSR would not dissipate in the bags and deny them from being able to find the GSR.  The visible stains that lead causes when loading the bullets would not vanish from being placed in plastic.

Had police tested Jeremy and his clothing the day of the murders who knows what they might have found.  Most of their sloppiness was in his favor including not initially finding the moderator.  They were too busy looking for and collecting anything that fit their perceived idea of what happened- Sheila committing murder suicide to have bothered.

Their sloppiness can't have caused her blood to get in the moderator though nor could it have accounted for her body being moved flat after her death but while she was still bleeding.  Nor could it have accounted for the Bible being placed in a pool of blood that formed after her death.  Even planting of evidence can't be behind the latter 2. The only explanation for the latter 2 is someone else was there at the scene to move her body while she was still bleeding and to put the bible in the pool of her blood after the pool formed but before it dried. What could they have found that they didn't that could have refuted Julie's claims? 

Jeremy is guilty as sin. Some people don't want to face it but that is the obvious reality.  People who don't want to face it make every excuse in the world for the lies he told and ignore all evidence of his guilt but that doesn't make it go away.

The argument of Jeremy supporters taken to its penultimate conclusion would be everyone should be released from prison because the police might have lied and the evidence might have been fabricated and these theoretical possibilities makes any conviction unsafe.   

 
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline mike tesko

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The bottom line is that all convicted suspects have been put in the frame. That is what police and investigators are trained to do. They have a person they suspect of having committed the crime, and they set out to build a volume of evidence against that person, or those people, and ignore anything that might tend to show a suspect as being innocent. There is nothing wrong with putting suspects in the frame, until dishonest intentions come into play, not just by investigating police officers, but it may also involve dishonest members of the public who are just out to cause mischief for somebody, who they dislike, or have a grudge to grind with somebody. Experts can be unknowingly drawn into this circle of lies by examining what is put before them - if the evidence out before them has been dishonestly presented, any findings through examination by an expert would on the face of it be true, but part of a conspiracy against a targeted suspect. There does not have to be a direct lunk between every party in a conspiracy, a conspiracy can involve people who do not know one another who never had any direct dealings with someone else in the conspiracy. All you need are at least two people or more, who know one another, or who had direct dealings in an instant case with each other, and involvement with or dealings with someone else in the same matter, who in turn had no dealings with others in the same matter, and all these people, be they police officers, members of the publuc!, experts, etc...

So, that is how a conspiracy can come about, everybody involved does not have to sit around a table and talk about how they can dishonestly do this or that...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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There exists many still photographic images taken from the crime  newscene video footage, and news real ofthe day of the tragedy. I can capture all the Iimages if needs be to make my point.  Another thing, let the record show that I have never once said that actors anld actresses were not usd in the making of the documentary.What I have said, and what I contunue to maintain, is that somw stil photigraphic images, and some footage in the dicumentary, are images that have been  taken from true to lufw and death video footage, and news reel footage of the day.  I am also saying that  alteration has been done to at least one stillcrime scene image using special effects, whereby  the image of an actor has been super imposed onto a photograph conttaining one of the real victims. I am saying the producer is responsible for doing this...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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There exists many still photographic images taken from the crime scene video footage, and news real on the day of the tragedy. I can capture all the Iimages if needs be to make my point.  Another thing, let the record show that I have never once said that actors anld actresses were not usd in the making of the documentary.What I have said, and what I contunue to maintain, is that somw stil photigraphic images, and some footage in the dicumentary, are images that have been  taken from true to lufw and death video footage, and news reel footage of the day.  I am also saying that  alteration has been done to at least one stillcrime scene image using special effects, whereby  the image of an actor has been super imposed onto a photograph conttaining one of the real victims. I am saying the producer is responsible for doing this...
« Last Edit: February 17, 2015, 10:25:AM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...