Author Topic: Why remove the sights and silencer from the rifle?  (Read 1723 times)

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Mr. Gee

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Why remove the sights and silencer from the rifle?
« on: January 28, 2015, 02:16:PM »
Iike most people who are interested in this case I have doubts either way. One of those doubts is this. Why would anyone anyone interested in a rifle for sports remove the sights? The silencer I can accept that under certain circumstances it could be more of a hindrance than a help. But why remove the sights which apparently take a bit of setting up? Did Bamber want to be like a cowboy gallopping around on his bike shooting into the air as he rode into town?
What possible reason would he have to remove the sights of a rifle unless it was for overhauling or cleaning the weapon?

Offline lookout

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Re: Why remove the sights and silencer from the rifle?
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2015, 02:18:PM »
Mr G,while you're on about the rifle,did it have a " hair trigger " ?

Offline ngb1066

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Re: Why remove the sights and silencer from the rifle?
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2015, 02:30:PM »
Mr G,while you're on about the rifle,did it have a " hair trigger " ?

Yes it did.


Mr. Gee

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Re: Why remove the sights and silencer from the rifle?
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2015, 02:31:PM »
Yes it did.
Oh ok. Would the trigger be adjustible?

Offline lookout

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Re: Why remove the sights and silencer from the rifle?
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2015, 02:36:PM »
Yes it did.





Thankyou so much,ngb.

Offline ngb1066

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Re: Why remove the sights and silencer from the rifle?
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2015, 03:03:PM »
Oh ok. Would the trigger be adjustible?

Yes, but it is something that would need to be done by an expert.


Offline lookout

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Re: Why remove the sights and silencer from the rifle?
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2015, 03:11:PM »
 My bet is that Sheila wouldn't/mightn't have realised that the slightest touch of the trigger would have immediately fired it.

Offline lookout

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Re: Why remove the sights and silencer from the rifle?
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2015, 03:28:PM »
 If only Sheila had realised that her brother was going to be implicated. I also wonder if she realised that a second shot would automatically follow in such a quick succession , quashing any thoughts of leaving Jeremy out of the equation.? By having just the one injury,Sheila I'm sure, wouldn't purposely have intended a second,knowing that the first shot would eventually kill her.

I'm confusing myself now. Only because I know that Jeremy's innocent.

Offline lookout

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Re: Why remove the sights and silencer from the rifle?
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2015, 03:57:PM »
 This could throw a whole new light in what my own personal thoughts on how Sheila came by the two shots,and not as I've always thought about her being shot.
I wonder if Sheila would have realised that one shot would immediately follow the other in such quick succession.?
This girl,in her own way was trying to protect her brother,but in a horrible twist of fate,as the second shot was delivered,it would have been too late for her to have had any thoughts that he could well have taken the blame.
I'm still of the opinion that this took place in the kitchen and not the bedroom.

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: Why remove the sights and silencer from the rifle?
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2015, 04:26:PM »
Iike most people who are interested in this case I have doubts either way. One of those doubts is this. Why would anyone anyone interested in a rifle for sports remove the sights? The silencer I can accept that under certain circumstances it could be more of a hindrance than a help. But why remove the sights which apparently take a bit of setting up? Did Bamber want to be like a cowboy gallopping around on his bike shooting into the air as he rode into town?
What possible reason would he have to remove the sights of a rifle unless it was for overhauling or cleaning the weapon?

The sights didn't even need to be removed in order to clean the weapon. It disassembled into 2 halves and that could be done with the sights still attached. The only reason to remove the sights would be because one wanted to use it at close quarters and the sight would inhibit accurate shooting at close quarters.

According to witnesses the weapon was not stored with the moderator and scope removed.  Thus Jeremy's claim he found it with the scope and moderator removed is not particularly believable.  To make matters worse, Jeremy initially told DCI Jones during his September interrogation that he last used the weapon a week to fortnight before the murders.

When Stan Jones took over the interrogation he said that the last known user of the weapon was AP and that AP had told police he found the gun with the moderator and scope attached and that he put it away in the same manner.  That resulted in Jeremy changing his story to prevent AP from being the last known user.  He didn't change his story though to forgetting that he used it once after Ap used it.  Rather he changed it to repeatedly using it the week before the murders and Neville repeatedly using it as well.  He claimed that during the week before the murders both mend used it repeatedly and sometimes it had the moderator and scope attached when he fetched it from the closet but other times it didn't.  He claimed the week prior to the murders Neville was repeatedly removing the accessories and sometimes put the gun away with them attached but other times he put it away with them removed.  The fact he changed his story from not using it to repeatedly using it is bad enough but worse he presented a tale of Neville and himself using the gun constantly and both Neville no removing the scope and moderator a single time but repeatedly removing them.

The kicker is that Neville used a 410 to shoot vermin, the rifle was purchased for Jeremy.  His father wasn't into competitive shooting anymore so not even interested in target shooting.  If the gun had been used constantly as Jeremy claims then the gun should not have looked brand new and removing the scope constantly would result in scratches as the screwdriver slipped, which invariably happens because the screws are small.

Perhaps worst of all, Jeremy staged bullets to support his tale of taking the gun out to shoot rabbits.  The bullets were next to the telephone (that June used to speak to her sister). He staged too many bullets though.  He either did not keep track of how many shots he fired total or didn't even think about trying to match up the bullets missing to the number fired. He staged 5 bullets more than would have been left if his claims were true. That is evidence he lied and staged the bullets. The only way for his claims to be true is if the killer used 20 bullets from that supply and decided to not continue to use it but instead to go to the closet for 5 more rounds.  Why would any killer do that?  It makes no sense whatsoever.

These are big problems for Jeremy's lawyers because how do you mitigate the above?  They didn't have any witnesses (apart from Jeremy) who said Neville routinely used the rifle or even any that said they saw him use it ever.  So that rules out having an independent witness who could testify that he removed the sights after use and stored the gun without the accessories attached.

Jeremy changing his story to using the gun repeatedly the week before the murders and the whole tale about the rabbit and leaving the gun out are all not very believable. Saying he was nervous and thus initially forgot he used it repeatedly and only remembered he used it repeatedly after he found out AP was the last known user doesn't sound very convincing it sounds like he changed his story because he needed to prevent AP from being the last known user because that would mean he had to find the gun with the moderator and scope attached. 

When you take this and add it to the other evidence it is very troublesome.  Evidence compounds and when it does you have a hard time explaining it away.


 
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Mr. Gee

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Re: Why remove the sights and silencer from the rifle?
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2015, 06:51:PM »
The sights didn't even need to be removed in order to clean the weapon. It disassembled into 2 halves and that could be done with the sights still attached. The only reason to remove the sights would be because one wanted to use it at close quarters and the sight would inhibit accurate shooting at close quarters.

According to witnesses the weapon was not stored with the moderator and scope removed.  Thus Jeremy's claim he found it with the scope and moderator removed is not particularly believable.  To make matters worse, Jeremy initially told DCI Jones during his September interrogation that he last used the weapon a week to fortnight before the murders.

When Stan Jones took over the interrogation he said that the last known user of the weapon was AP and that AP had told police he found the gun with the moderator and scope attached and that he put it away in the same manner.  That resulted in Jeremy changing his story to prevent AP from being the last known user.  He didn't change his story though to forgetting that he used it once after Ap used it.  Rather he changed it to repeatedly using it the week before the murders and Neville repeatedly using it as well.  He claimed that during the week before the murders both mend used it repeatedly and sometimes it had the moderator and scope attached when he fetched it from the closet but other times it didn't.  He claimed the week prior to the murders Neville was repeatedly removing the accessories and sometimes put the gun away with them attached but other times he put it away with them removed.  The fact he changed his story from not using it to repeatedly using it is bad enough but worse he presented a tale of Neville and himself using the gun constantly and both Neville no removing the scope and moderator a single time but repeatedly removing them.

The kicker is that Neville used a 410 to shoot vermin, the rifle was purchased for Jeremy.  His father wasn't into competitive shooting anymore so not even interested in target shooting.  If the gun had been used constantly as Jeremy claims then the gun should not have looked brand new and removing the scope constantly would result in scratches as the screwdriver slipped, which invariably happens because the screws are small.

Perhaps worst of all, Jeremy staged bullets to support his tale of taking the gun out to shoot rabbits.  The bullets were next to the telephone (that June used to speak to her sister). He staged too many bullets though.  He either did not keep track of how many shots he fired total or didn't even think about trying to match up the bullets missing to the number fired. He staged 5 bullets more than would have been left if his claims were true. That is evidence he lied and staged the bullets. The only way for his claims to be true is if the killer used 20 bullets from that supply and decided to not continue to use it but instead to go to the closet for 5 more rounds.  Why would any killer do that?  It makes no sense whatsoever.

These are big problems for Jeremy's lawyers because how do you mitigate the above?  They didn't have any witnesses (apart from Jeremy) who said Neville routinely used the rifle or even any that said they saw him use it ever.  So that rules out having an independent witness who could testify that he removed the sights after use and stored the gun without the accessories attached.

Jeremy changing his story to using the gun repeatedly the week before the murders and the whole tale about the rabbit and leaving the gun out are all not very believable. Saying he was nervous and thus initially forgot he used it repeatedly and only remembered he used it repeatedly after he found out AP was the last known user doesn't sound very convincing it sounds like he changed his story because he needed to prevent AP from being the last known user because that would mean he had to find the gun with the moderator and scope attached. 

When you take this and add it to the other evidence it is very troublesome.  Evidence compounds and when it does you have a hard time explaining it away.
(1) Why did Pargeter use Jeremy's rifle although he had a rifle of his own? It was obviously without his permission, otherwise Jeremy would have remembered. (2) Are there any independent witnesses who can testify that Pargeter used Jeremy's rifle when he said he did?
(3) Could you please direct me to all these places where it is claimed Bamber changed his story many times?

Offline lookout

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Re: Why remove the sights and silencer from the rifle?
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2015, 07:40:PM »
 Jeremy was the only one who hadn't changed his story ! Strange,that. The rest all suffered from selective memory loss.

Mr. Gee

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Re: Why remove the sights and silencer from the rifle?
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2015, 08:56:PM »
Jeremy was the only one who hadn't changed his story ! Strange,that. The rest all suffered from selective memory loss.
So where did scipio get his information that Jeremy changed his story several times? I personally have only see one statement of his. So where do these people get their information from?

Offline lookout

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Re: Why remove the sights and silencer from the rifle?
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2015, 09:28:PM »
So where did scipio get his information that Jeremy changed his story several times? I personally have only see one statement of his. So where do these people get their information from?




I don't know,Mr G,but I have an inbuilt ignore facility which works well. ;D ;D

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: Why remove the sights and silencer from the rifle?
« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2015, 05:07:PM »
(1) Why did Pargeter use Jeremy's rifle although he had a rifle of his own? It was obviously without his permission, otherwise Jeremy would have remembered. (2) Are there any independent witnesses who can testify that Pargeter used Jeremy's rifle when he said he did?
(3) Could you please direct me to all these places where it is claimed Bamber changed his story many times?

1) Well he said he was because it was a new gun he never used before and he was very attracted to it because it had a moderator and scope which he had recently purchased for his weapon but they were at his home and his weapon was at WHF so he hadn't had a chance to try them out on his weapon yet.

Translation:  Wow a new toy I got to try this out because it is different from mine.

2) Jeremy confirmed he shot it with AP.  I don't know if anyone else saw him or not but Jeremy's claim seems to make it impossible for the defense to deny it

3) Jeremy told first responders different things than he put in his statements or said during his interrogation.  Among other things he changed the location where he supposedly left the murder weapon but most significantly he dropped his claim that Sheila fired all weapons in the house changing to he had not known her to fire any weapons and dropped his claim he taught her how to use the murder weapon.

He changed minor things like the claim he heard rabbits which is absurd to he saw rabbits. He changed his claim that he had not used the weapon a week to fortnight before taking it out to try to shoot the rabbits to constantly using it the week before the murders.

Those are just ones offhand. Evidence that contradicts what he claimed is even more significant though.  For instance evidence that his father was shot in a room containing no phone and fled to the kitchen later severely harms his claim his father called him before any shooting had occurred to ask for his help.  The fact he would have made matters worse instead of calming Sheila down harms the claim Neville would have called him.  The evidence Sheila didn't do anything undermines the claim Neville would have called Jeremy to report she had the gun.  The evidence that Jeremy staged the bullets by leaving too many undermines his claim he took out the gun and bullets out and left them out so that Sheila could have gotten a hold.  All of the evidence compounds and one would have to believe that a huge series of unlikely events happened in order for Jeremy to be innocent.   

Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry