Did Jeremy phone Witham police station ?

[lookout]

Bews and Myall had made a second " inspection " of the farmhouse at around 4am ( not logged/reported ) but neither of them bothered looking in a window or even knocking at the door.Why ? Because of the sighting of a figure at the window who was possibly armed which is why,if the truth be told,that neither approached the farmhouse for this reason. Even the dogs had been quiet at that stage,but according to one entry just after 4am,it was when the firearms team were deployed because " both dogs were barking ".
All those present were kept informed of the situation---------but it's these recorded messages/logs which have never been seen or heard and which had been denied prior to 2001.
Everything had been recorded as a matter of course,but EP have remained tight-lipped about the tapes.

[David1819]

There is no mention of a phone call to Witham In PC Wests August 9th statement. It only appears in Wests September 13th statement.

I have quickly skimmed through the September police interview's with Jeremy. Unless I have missed it the police never put the question to him. (please correct me if I am wrong)

We are led to believe that Jeremy had told PC West he rang Witham. But PC West fails to record this in his statement. Then Jeremy denies calling Witham.

Since West never recorded this alleged conversation during his August 9th statement. Plus there is no good reason for Jeremy to deny calling Witham.  I believe the answer is no.

Here is RWBs diary entry for the 30th of August. 

[Caroline]

Bews and Myall had made a second " inspection " of the farmhouse at around 4am ( not logged/reported ) but neither of them bothered looking in a window or even knocking at the door.Why ? Because of the sighting of a figure at the window who was possibly armed which is why,if the truth be told,that neither approached the farmhouse for this reason. Even the dogs had been quiet at that stage,but according to one entry just after 4am,it was when the firearms team were deployed because " both dogs were barking ".
All those present were kept informed of the situation---------but it's these recorded messages/logs which have never been seen or heard and which had been denied prior to 2001.
Everything had been recorded as a matter of course,but EP have remained tight-lipped about the tapes.

If the have never been seen ,how does anyone know they exist?

[Stephanie]

There is no mention of a phone call to Witham In PC Wests August 9th statement. It only appears in Wests September 13th statement.

I have quickly skimmed through the September police interview's with Jeremy. Unless I have missed it the police never put the question to him. (please correct me if I am wrong)

We are led to believe that Jeremy had told PC West he rang Witham. But PC West fails to record this in his statement. Then Jeremy denies calling Witham.

Since West never recorded this alleged conversation during his August 9th statement. Plus there is no good reason for Jeremy to deny calling Witham.  I believe the answer is no.

Here is RWBs diary entry for the 30th of August. 

Local people know that Witham is closed from 2-6am.

Jeremy Bamber was a local. He knew Witham was closed between 2-6am.


I don't understand why you are making so many excuses for him David? You need to look at ALL the evidence. ALL the evidence shows withoutdoubt Jeremy Bamber is guilty.

PC West explained during the trial why the Witham phone call wasn't in his first statement. There's no conspiracy.

I agree with Caroline that when Jeremy phoned the police he told him it was his sister. And as has been pointed out during his interviews, he slipped up big time over the questioning of Sheila & she has. He couldn't keep up the pretense.

His conversations with police outside the farmhouse show how he set the scene. His witness statements attempt to solidify his stories but his plans back fire. Did you notice in his statement how he said his father paused before speaking? What a load of cobblers! He over egged it.. There was no phone call from his father! His father was already deceased.

Remember how the dog was whining when he and the police arrived at the farmhouse? Jeremy made a point of stating the dog never did that.

The dog was whining because his master had been killed. 

Only an idiot would phone a police station that all the locals knew was closed between 2-6am.


 

[notsure]

If the have never been seen ,how does anyone know they exist?

I don't know about this particular recording and such but if things like this are referred to in later police documents then they obviously do exist.

I don't get it Caroline, after 30 years why doesn't EP just let someone in and take the whole lot away and let them be inspected. If they are so sure there is nothing in those documents that could make him innocent then there shouldn't be a problem.

When I first came on this forum one of my main concerns was of non disclosure, having read about other MOJ's it most alwaysrerevolves around this.

I'm sure everyone on this forum, the ct etc would dearly like to know once and for all if they got the right person.but it's because they won't release I think it's become political.

Guilty or innocent I would like to know once and foral. This is never going to go away is it. Someone will always want to get to the truth either way and it's a sad day when a court order has been issued and ep think they are above the law. this is something that should be made more of in the media.

I

[lebaleb]

Local people know that Witham is closed from 2-6am.

Jeremy Bamber was a local. He knew Witham was closed between 2-6am.


I don't understand why you are making so many excuses for him David? You need to look at ALL the evidence. ALL the evidence shows withoutdoubt Jeremy Bamber is guilty.

PC West explained during the trial why the Witham phone call wasn't in his first statement. There's no conspiracy.

I agree with Caroline that when Jeremy phoned the police he told him it was his sister. And as has been pointed out during his interviews, he slipped up big time over the questioning of Sheila & she has. He couldn't keep up the pretense.

His conversations with police outside the farmhouse show how he set the scene. His witness statements attempt to solidify his stories but his plans back fire. Did you notice in his statement how he said his father paused before speaking? What a load of cobblers! He over egged it.. There was no phone call from his father! His father was already deceased.

Remember how the dog was whining when he and the police arrived at the farmhouse? Jeremy made a point of stating the dog never did that.

The dog was whining because his master had been killed. 

Only an idiot would phone a police station that all the locals knew was closed between 2-6am.

So PC West was an idiot because he called Witham... but wait, he got a reply from Saxby who stated they had just returned to the police station. Obviously not closed between 2 and 6.

[Stephanie]

So PC West was an idiot because he called Witham... but wait, he got a reply from Saxby who stated they had just returned to the police station. Obviously not closed between 2 and 6.

No Lelebab; PC West was not an idiot.  PC West clearly knew other officers were manning the station on that particular night. He would have known this at the beginning of his shift.

The idiot was Bamber for having phoned a police station where; as he states; "no one was in."

But wait, his father had just phoned him to tell him his sister had a gun and had gone crazy and instead of phoning 999 he faffed around choosing to phone an unmanned police station; phoned his girlfriend - clearly wasting time when he suspected there was something wrong at the farm.

These aren't the actions of an innocent man!

[Roch]

West only managed to contact Saxby by a personalised radio link, distinct from the radio system that could be overheard at HQIR.  West must have wanted to contact Witham because it was relatively close to the scene?  If Jeremy Bamber did actually attempt to contact Witham, why would his logic be any different to that of West?  If Jeremy Bamber is one of the local people* who knew that Witham wasn't staffed - then surely he would also be aware that Uncle Bobby, Ann, Tom Cobley, Dick and Harry would also know that Witham wasn't staffed?  Therefore, would it not be a very poor decision on the part of Jeremy - in attempting to 'cover his tracks' - by attempting to contact police at Witham?

*The 'local people' sounds like something from 'League of Gentlemen'.  It certainly was a local area - where you could choose the lead detective you wanted - if you had the right influence.

[Stephanie]

West only managed to contact Saxby by a personalised radio link, distinct from the radio system that could be overheard at HQIR.  West must have wanted to contact Witham because it was relatively close to the scene?  West may have contacted Witham in order to ensure he had back up, as opposed to it being relatively close to the sceneIf Jeremy Bamber did actually attempt to contact Witham, why would his logic be any different to that of West? There are two arguments here. If Jeremy's logic was the same as PC West, would this not imply Jeremy's mind worked not dissimilar to the mind of an analytical police officer? On the other hand, if Jeremy was thinking 'logically' it would suggest he was in control and any alleged phone call from his father had not knocked his logical thinking off kilter. Further two officers stated Jeremy Bamber had said he had contacted Witham police station. Why would they make something like this up? What motive would they have to do so?. If Jeremy Bamber is one of the local people* who knew that Witham wasn't staffed - then surely he would also be aware that Uncle Bobby, Ann, Tom Cobley, Dick and Harry would also know that Witham wasn't staffed? Being a local member of the public is not the same as being a local police officer on duty that night. The two examples have differing connotations. Therefore, would it not be a very poor decision on the part of Jeremy - in attempting to 'cover his tracks' - by attempting to contact police at Witham? Defo!

[Stephanie]

*The 'local people' sounds like something from 'League of Gentlemen'.  It certainly was a local area - where you could choose the lead detective you wanted - if you had the right influence.

It was a local village in Essex Roch not Midsomer. 

[Roch]

It was a local village in Essex Roch not Midsomer. 

Steph,

Robert Boutflour's interventions to ACC Simpson seems to have resulted in DCS 'Mick' Ainsley taking over the case from DCI Thomas 'Taff' Jones.  When interviewed in 2002 by Metropolitan Police, Ainsley referred to Robert Boutflour as 'Bobby'.  He eventually went on to obtain a private sector position, linked to security, at none-other than the Osea Road caravan site.   

Sends down Bobby's nephew by facilitating the altering of statements etc etc - and then winds up working at the family business. 

Now that is local. 

[Caroline]

West only managed to contact Saxby by a personalised radio link, distinct from the radio system that could be overheard at HQIR.  West must have wanted to contact Witham because it was relatively close to the scene?  If Jeremy Bamber did actually attempt to contact Witham, why would his logic be any different to that of West?  If Jeremy Bamber is one of the local people* who knew that Witham wasn't staffed - then surely he would also be aware that Uncle Bobby, Ann, Tom Cobley, Dick and Harry would also know that Witham wasn't staffed?  Therefore, would it not be a very poor decision on the part of Jeremy - in attempting to 'cover his tracks' - by attempting to contact police at Witham?

*The 'local people' sounds like something from 'League of Gentlemen'.  It certainly was a local area - where you could choose the lead detective you wanted - if you had the right influence.

What would anyone gain from saying Jeremy said he called Witham first, if he hadn't?

[Caroline]

I don't know about this particular recording and such but if things like this are referred to in later police documents then they obviously do exist.

I don't get it Caroline, after 30 years why doesn't EP just let someone in and take the whole lot away and let them be inspected. If they are so sure there is nothing in those documents that could make him innocent then there shouldn't be a problem.

When I first came on this forum one of my main concerns was of non disclosure, having read about other MOJ's it most alwaysrerevolves around this.

I'm sure everyone on this forum, the ct etc would dearly like to know once and for all if they got the right person.but it's because they won't release I think it's become political.

Guilty or innocent I would like to know once and foral. This is never going to go away is it. Someone will always want to get to the truth either way and it's a sad day when a court order has been issued and ep think they are above the law. this is something that should be made more of in the media.

I

OK, most of that is fair comment however, if there is still mountains of undisclosed material, why did Jeremy say he has almost all of the material hidden behind PII?

[lookout]

OK, most of that is fair comment however, if there is still mountains of undisclosed material, why did Jeremy say he has almost all of the material hidden behind PII?

He obviously realised that he hadn't.

[Caroline]

He obviously realised that he hadn't.

Like he realised he didn't call Witham after  saying he had?