I am visiting ST Nicholas' church, Tolleshunt D'arcy - today

[Kaldin]

Jeremy rang Julie before the police got into the house - presumably to tell her that Sheila had a gun and the police were there. Did that not ring alarm bells for her? After all, hadn't Jeremy told her that he would kill the family and blame it on Sheila?

[HMEssex]

She might have thought he was in shock. I find your continual abuse of Julie Mugford to be quite disturbing. How come you make every excuse for JB and his behaviour?  but JM is not afforded the same luxury.

I think it is because she got away with the crime of accessory after the fact and that she is considered a model charitable citizen in Canada where she lives. I don't think Jackie is abusing JM I think she is as many others are just disgusted that she got off scot free for perverting the course of justice by making a deal with the police. And by the way I'm no fan of JB.

I agree. There is something vaguely unsatisfactory about the way Julie "got away" with it all.

The thing is, I can understand her not believing Jeremy if he talked about killing his family. I can understand her ignoring him if he said "it's tonight or never" when he rang her the evening before the murders. I can understand her ignoring him if he phoned her in the night to say that something was wrong or whatever it was he said. What I can't understand is her reaction - or lack of it - when she was told that all the family members were dead.

Come on - even if she had dismissed his previous talk as idle gossip, she would have totally freaked out when she found out that the family were all dead. Well a normal person would have anyway.

Did she not freak out when the cops called for her?

I don't know. I gather that Jeremy rang her very early to tell her the news? Her flatmates must have been around. Surely she would wake at least one of them and freak out about it.

Definitely!  Would love to have been privy to her conversations with the police who drove her.  Don't suppose it's ever been recorded how she was reacting on the journey or at what stage she new what had happened (assuming she didn't already know via Jeremy).

[joolz1975]

I dont trust them Boutflours.

Where they investigated at all??

Don't know about them being investigated, but they were 'shown the door' a few times by the policeman in charge at the time (can't remember his name sorry) for being meddlesome.  Plus the jury must have wondered why R. Boutflour was so intent on incriminating his nephew, hence the query regarding the will.  I wonder if the police ever looked into the incident where Peter Eaton punched Nevill, giving him a black eye?  Obviously, not a close family!

Hmmm lets blame them then!!

[John]

Don't know about them being investigated, but they were 'shown the door' a few times by the policeman in charge at the time (can't remember his name sorry) for being meddlesome.  Plus the jury must have wondered why R. Boutflour was so intent on incriminating his nephew, hence the query regarding the will.  I wonder if the police ever looked into the incident where Peter Eaton punched Nevill, giving him a black eye?  Obviously, not a close family!

Strange isn't it yet Nevill and he were partners in Eaton's farm.

[Kaldin]

She might have thought he was in shock. I find your continual abuse of Julie Mugford to be quite disturbing. How come you make every excuse for JB and his behaviour?  but JM is not afforded the same luxury.

I think it is because she got away with the crime of accessory after the fact and that she is considered a model charitable citizen in Canada where she lives. I don't think Jackie is abusing JM I think she is as many others are just disgusted that she got off scot free for perverting the course of justice by making a deal with the police. And by the way I'm no fan of JB.

I agree. There is something vaguely unsatisfactory about the way Julie "got away" with it all.

The thing is, I can understand her not believing Jeremy if he talked about killing his family. I can understand her ignoring him if he said "it's tonight or never" when he rang her the evening before the murders. I can understand her ignoring him if he phoned her in the night to say that something was wrong or whatever it was he said. What I can't understand is her reaction - or lack of it - when she was told that all the family members were dead.

Come on - even if she had dismissed his previous talk as idle gossip, she would have totally freaked out when she found out that the family were all dead. Well a normal person would have anyway.

Did she not freak out when the cops called for her?

I don't know. I gather that Jeremy rang her very early to tell her the news? Her flatmates must have been around. Surely she would wake at least one of them and freak out about it.

Definitely!  Would love to have been privy to her conversations with the police who drove her.  Don't suppose it's ever been recorded how she was reacting on the journey or at what stage she new what had happened (assuming she didn't already know via Jeremy).

I don't know if she was told they were all dead by the police, but wouldn't you expect her to react very badly to that considering the conversation she allegedly had with Jeremy the night before, and considering that he had repeatedly said he was going to kill his family and blame Sheila? You'd think she'd at least want to take a friend.

What did she do? She went to Jeremy's house and went upstairs with him on her own.

[John]

Jeremy rang Julie before the police got into the house - presumably to tell her that Sheila had a gun and the police were there. Did that not ring alarm bells for her? After all, hadn't Jeremy told her that he would kill the family and blame it on Sheila?

That's right Kaldin. Didn't the flatmates say it was just after 3am and even before Nevill was supposed to have alerted him??

I bet she needed a change of underwear that day!   

[HMEssex]

Jeremy rang Julie before the police got into the house - presumably to tell her that Sheila had a gun and the police were there. Did that not ring alarm bells for her? After all, hadn't Jeremy told her that he would kill the family and blame it on Sheila?

That's right Kaldin. Didn't the flatmates say it was just after 3am and even before Nevill was supposed to have alerted him??

I bet she needed a change of underwear that day!   

Indeed! 

[Kaldin]

Jeremy rang Julie before the police got into the house - presumably to tell her that Sheila had a gun and the police were there. Did that not ring alarm bells for her? After all, hadn't Jeremy told her that he would kill the family and blame it on Sheila?

That's right Kaldin. Didn't the flatmates say it was just after 3am and even before Nevill was supposed to have alerted him??

I bet she needed a change of underwear that day!   

I mean that Jeremy rang Julie again from a call box when the police were outside the house. He must have told her that Sheila was in the house with a gun and that they didn't know what had happened to his family.

[andrea]

I think that Julie Mugford came across as a very reliable witness. She was apparently able to ward off the attacks on her credibility by the defence Barrister.  She is a smart girl, isn't she a teacher now?

I think she is a head teacher in a school in Canada.

yes he indeed did ward of attacks by the defence, by continually breaking down into tears at every oppurtunity when they questioned her, making it impossible for them to have a fair crack, but like magic regained comnposure when it was the prosecution turn.

[chochokeira]

Jeremy rang Julie before the police got into the house - presumably to tell her that Sheila had a gun and the police were there. Did that not ring alarm bells for her? After all, hadn't Jeremy told her that he would kill the family and blame it on Sheila?

That's right Kaldin. Didn't the flatmates say it was just after 3am and even before Nevill was supposed to have alerted him??

I bet she needed a .............that day!   

Gratuitous sleaze is best left unsaid.

[grahameb]

Julie came forward with her allegations against JB a month or so after the murders - did her mother Mary Mugford give a statement during the first few weeks?

Or perhaps more importantly, did she confide in her mother before she went to the police?

[Jackiepreece]

If like John said when the penny dropped and realised JB was the killer when he allegedly laughed and said he should have been an actress them to show the depths of her acting skills she would have been acting at the mortuary  she must have been acting at the funerals and on the holidays so the trial would have been a breeze.

With reference to Mugford having turned her life around being intelligent and ending up being a headteacher anyone remember a certain mr Harold shipman he was quite intelligent too

I rest my case

[Alias]

She might have thought he was in shock. I find your continual abuse of Julie Mugford to be quite disturbing. How come you make every excuse for JB and his behaviour?  but JM is not afforded the same luxury.

I think it is because she got away with the crime of accessory after the fact and that she is considered a model charitable citizen in Canada where she lives. I don't think Jackie is abusing JM I think she is as many others are just disgusted that she got off scot free for perverting the course of justice by making a deal with the police. And by the way I'm no fan of JB.

I agree. There is something vaguely unsatisfactory about the way Julie "got away" with it all.

The thing is, I can understand her not believing Jeremy if he talked about killing his family. I can understand her ignoring him if he said "it's tonight or never" when he rang her the evening before the murders. I can understand her ignoring him if he phoned her in the night to say that something was wrong or whatever it was he said. What I can't understand is her reaction - or lack of it - when she was told that all the family members were dead.

Come on - even if she had dismissed his previous talk as idle gossip, she would have totally freaked out when she found out that the family were all dead. Well a normal person would have anyway.

Did she not freak out when the cops called for her?

I don't know. I gather that Jeremy rang her very early to tell her the news? Her flatmates must have been around. Surely she would wake at least one of them and freak out about it.

But she didn´t. She wanted to go to sleep - and told Jeremy to go back to bed...
Her account doesn´t add up.
A man has spent 26 years behind bars largely because of her testimony, which doesn´t make sense on some levels. I have a big problem with that.

[HMEssex]

She might have thought he was in shock. I find your continual abuse of Julie Mugford to be quite disturbing. How come you make every excuse for JB and his behaviour?  but JM is not afforded the same luxury.

I think it is because she got away with the crime of accessory after the fact and that she is considered a model charitable citizen in Canada where she lives. I don't think Jackie is abusing JM I think she is as many others are just disgusted that she got off scot free for perverting the course of justice by making a deal with the police. And by the way I'm no fan of JB.

I agree. There is something vaguely unsatisfactory about the way Julie "got away" with it all.

The thing is, I can understand her not believing Jeremy if he talked about killing his family. I can understand her ignoring him if he said "it's tonight or never" when he rang her the evening before the murders. I can understand her ignoring him if he phoned her in the night to say that something was wrong or whatever it was he said. What I can't understand is her reaction - or lack of it - when she was told that all the family members were dead.

Come on - even if she had dismissed his previous talk as idle gossip, she would have totally freaked out when she found out that the family were all dead. Well a normal person would have anyway.

Did she not freak out when the cops called for her?

I don't know. I gather that Jeremy rang her very early to tell her the news? Her flatmates must have been around. Surely she would wake at least one of them and freak out about it.

But she didn´t. She wanted to go to sleep - and told Jeremy to go back to bed...
Her account doesn´t add up.
A man has spent 26 years behind bars largely because of her testimony, which doesn´t make sense on some levels. I have a big problem with that.

I'm now wondering after which phone call Julie told Jeremy to go back to sleep, it must have been the first one?  It would make more sense.  What time was the 2nd one?  Her flat mates must have been awoken by both calls.  Did they mention that and describe her reactions?

[Kaldin]

She might have thought he was in shock. I find your continual abuse of Julie Mugford to be quite disturbing. How come you make every excuse for JB and his behaviour?  but JM is not afforded the same luxury.

I think it is because she got away with the crime of accessory after the fact and that she is considered a model charitable citizen in Canada where she lives. I don't think Jackie is abusing JM I think she is as many others are just disgusted that she got off scot free for perverting the course of justice by making a deal with the police. And by the way I'm no fan of JB.

I agree. There is something vaguely unsatisfactory about the way Julie "got away" with it all.

The thing is, I can understand her not believing Jeremy if he talked about killing his family. I can understand her ignoring him if he said "it's tonight or never" when he rang her the evening before the murders. I can understand her ignoring him if he phoned her in the night to say that something was wrong or whatever it was he said. What I can't understand is her reaction - or lack of it - when she was told that all the family members were dead.

Come on - even if she had dismissed his previous talk as idle gossip, she would have totally freaked out when she found out that the family were all dead. Well a normal person would have anyway.

Did she not freak out when the cops called for her?

I don't know. I gather that Jeremy rang her very early to tell her the news? Her flatmates must have been around. Surely she would wake at least one of them and freak out about it.

But she didn´t. She wanted to go to sleep - and told Jeremy to go back to bed...
Her account doesn´t add up.
A man has spent 26 years behind bars largely because of her testimony, which doesn´t make sense on some levels. I have a big problem with that.

I'm referring to the call which Jeremy made to her later - the one when he called from a phone box to tell her what was happening at the house. I think he called her about 5.30 or something like that.