Author Topic: June Bamber, did not attend bible class evening before she was killed...  (Read 21987 times)

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Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: June Bamber, did not attend bible class evening before she was killed...
« Reply #420 on: February 07, 2015, 01:09:AM »
1. Abrasions rings are left when the barrel is in contact or very close contact to the skin hence why I mentioned the autopsy report.

As I already pointed out abrasion rings (aka muzzle imprints) CAN be left they are not always left when there is a contact wound.  The autopsy report doesn't mention any abrasion rings it mentiones the size of the entrance wound.  You simply made up the claim there were abrasion rings the size of the entrance wounds. 

2. The DNA found in silencer was more likely to be Junes this was confirmed by Webster and got Bamber his appeal hearing in 2002
.

All the blood was removed from the moderator before it was tested for DNA. By definition that means that any DNA found inside was not blood based and was attributable to contamination. That alone means the DNA found in the moderator was wholly meaningless.

The moderator had both June and Sheila's DNA and a partial profile of someone else but there were only 4 markers from that profile so not enough to figure out anything.  The defense expert was so biased she insisted it was a male to support the defense argument at trial that maybe it was Neville and June's blood not Sheila's.  Her straining was a waste of time though because the DNA was through contamination and Sheila's was there anyway. She strained to try to say she could not determine for sure if it was Sheila's but from a scientific standpoint enough markers matched to say it was.  The chances of it being someone else's were astronomical.  It matters not though since such was attributable to contamination not blood.

The only DNA test that would matter would be a DNA test of the blood the defense and prosecution experts removed in 1985 and 1986 but no such blood was retained for future testing.

3. The alleged blood flake belonging to Shelia was found in 5th baffle plate no where else. The Bourtflours took the silencer apart with their bare hands, the same day they collected blood stained  clothing and a pair of sheilas blood stained underwear from WHF.

Everytime you post you post another erroneous claim. 

The lab removed all visible blood from the moderator.  There was visible blood on a least the first 6 baffles. It is unclear if there was any visible blood on baffles 7 and 8 because the lab didn't note such.   The defense expert found microscopic blood on baffles 1-8.  The defense expert and lab BOTH determined this blood was Sheila's blood type.  In addition the lab tested a visible flake of blood that was trapped between the first 2 baffles.  Not only was it Sheila's blood type this blood had an enzyme which was different from June.  AK1 as opposed to June's AK 2-1.  AK 2-1 is more stable than AK1 so if it were a mix of June and Sheila's blood then the AK2-1 should have been present.

The defense came up with a theory maybe it was June and Neville's mixed and there was no blood of Sheila at all but had no expert to support their claim because their very own expert told them it wasn't possible. They got the prosecution expert to say there was a remote possibility but he didn't think it were the case and explained why.  They needed to establish it was a reasonably likely possibility for it to have any legal significance but couldn't.

As for the family they looked at it they didn't take it apart and the men didn't even touch her panties only AE did not that it matters because there is no way to touch a dried blood stain on clothing and magically transfer blood from the panties to 8 baffles.  The blood was wet and actually dried onto the baffles. Wet blood sprayed inside the baffle through drawback landing on the first 8 and dried there.

4. The Drawback effect does not always happen. Macdonell and Brooks done original research in blood splatter drawback and found it was more likely to occur with a shorter barrel and a higher calibre weapon. The shorter the barrel the more drawback the higher the calibre the more draw back. Being a .22 long rifle the odds are minimal.

Further reading
" Principles of Bloodstain Pattern Analysis: Theory and Practice
 By Stuart H. James, Paul E. Kish, T. Paulette Sutton"

Whether drawback will happen is first and foremost a factor of where the wound is.  The most important factors relate to the thickness of the skin and how much blood is in the area in question.  Head wounds often don't result in drawback because of both of these mentioned factors.  When it does it virtually always is the result of a large caliber wound that hit the right area of the head.

The testimony at trial by the experts was that the fatal wound would be virtually certain to result in drawback because of the nature of the skin in that area as well as the blood vessels.  Nothing you posted deals with these relevant facts you lack the expertise to debate the issue competently and are just making up your own crap.

That is especially the case with your silly claim that the odds are minimal of a 22 rifle being able to result in drawback.  The most important factor is the location of the wound.     

5. This is the baffle plate in question


Mark Webster a forensic scientist in his own words
"No blood was visible on or in the moderator. Limited chemical testing (KM testing) did not reveal the presence of any blood. The red stains on one of the baffles removed from the moderator shown below were not blood. They were probably rust. The flake on the rim of the baffle appeared to be "soot". Several such flakes were present inside the moderator."

Yeah and?  All it says it that there was no blood before doing the DNA tests.  That makes the DNA tests worthless for the reasons I already explained.

Here is what the 1986 defense expert said (quoting from the 2002 Appeal Court decision):

"No questions were asked at trial of Mr Hayward to establish what part of the blood he had tested. The position was, however, known to the defence through their own expert Dr Lincoln. Dr Lincoln had seen the evidential material upon which the group testing results were based and agreed with the conclusions. He recorded that evidence in the course of his report of 19 September 1986. He said that Mr Hayward had "found a flake of blood trapped under the first or second baffle plate" and that it was this flake that was tested and produced the groupings A, EAP BA, AK1, Hp2.1 upon which reliance was placed by the prosecution. Dr Lincoln further recorded:

'Mr Hayward states that he could detect visible staining on the "upper baffle plates" and that he swabbed these plates so that the blood was taken onto cotton material which could subsequently be used in grouping tests. On this material Mr Hayward successfully determined the ABO and EAP groups and showed the blood to be groups A, EAP BA.'

In dealing with this evidence, the defence were limited by the evidence available from their own expert. They called no such evidence at trial but the material that they had obtained pre-trial has been disclosed in the course of this appeal. The defence had instructed Dr Patrick Lincoln, whose expertise in such matters was well known. On 29 April 1986, he visited the forensic science laboratory and examined the relevant material. He carried out tests on all seventeen baffles. The first eight plates all gave weak or very weak positive reactions for blood. There was no blood clearly visible to the naked eye and Dr Lincoln concluded that "such findings could be consistent with an item having been previously swabbed by a forensic scientist to remove blood stains for testing". The other nine plates "did not produce any evidence for the presence of blood".

He agreed with Mr Hayward's conclusion that the combination of blood groups revealed in his testing of the inside of the moderator could have come solely from Sheila Caffell but did not come from any one of the other individuals. He said that it was not clear from Mr Hayward's statement that he had obtained the blood from which the different group testings had been done from the same area of the moderator. If they were not from the same area, then the results could have originated from more than one individual. On 8 September 1986, Dr Lincoln again went to the laboratory and this time met and discussed the matter with Mr Hayward. As a result of this meeting, Dr Lincoln appreciated that the blood tested all came from a single flake trapped under the first or second baffle. In a letter to the defence solicitors, Dr Lincoln said that Mr Hayward "used this single flake to produce a solution from which he was able to determine the groups". He said that this meant that the possible explanation he had earlier suggested as to a combination of more than one persons blood no longer applied. "

Game, set, match.


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Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: June Bamber, did not attend bible class evening before she was killed...
« Reply #421 on: February 07, 2015, 01:26:AM »
Excellent post David. I can also add that the silencer was originally tested using the ABO method and re-tested in 2001 for the 2002 appeal using LCN DNA.

Contamination:

The results clearly showed there was an unidentified male DNA surely this adds weight to possible contamination within the silencer. Possibly?????

The tests would only have shown a possibility of 3 people June, Sheila or Neville.

The COA excepted that Sheila's DNA may not have been in the silencer but because June's DNA was found the appeal was lost.  However, June's DNA could be argued because her relatives examined the silencer.

I'm thinking out loud here, I'm sure Skip will shoot me down....but could it be possible???????  ;D ;D ;D

1) the claim the third contributor was a male is highly suspect.  Scientifically there was not enough of a profile to assess the gender the defense expert was trying her best to help the defense by saying it was a male to help with their suggestion it was Neville's.  The reality is that it could have been female and more importantly could have belonged to just about anyone who touched it including Lincoln or someone from the police lab who touched it in 1985

2) From a scientific standpoint Sheila's DNA was found in the weapon. The match from a scientific standpoint was so great that there is no realistic chance of it being someone else's. The defense expert again did what she coudl to try leave the door open to it being someone other than Sheila. So Sheila's DNA was found, June's DNA and also some third party.

What significance is this DNA?  None!

This DNA has no significance because of a variety of reasons. 

A) It is possible blood from multiple victims was drawn inside the moderator. What matters is whose DNA was removed from the first 8 baffles by the lab and Lincoln.  The only DNA test that could assess such would have to be a DNA test of that blood that was removed.  If blood remained in the rifle testing would only reveal whose blood remained not whose blood was removed in 1985 and 1986. Since the blood of multiple victims could have been inside finding blood of a victim doesn't rule out the blood removed in 1985 and 1986 being from a different victim. So the testing was always just a waste of time.

2) It was also a waste of time because there wasn't any known blood left in the moderator.  All visible blood was removed in 1985, all microscopic traces removed in 1986 and thus in 1999 when it was tested for blood it tested negative. So the DNA  from June, Sheila and the unknown third party were not blood based. Someone who handled something that had Sheila's DNA and June's DNA contaminated the moderator with their DNA.

So the DNA evidence is worthless for a host of reasons and never had any prospect of providing any useful information at all.     


 All visible blood was
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Offline Patti

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Re: June Bamber, did not attend bible class evening before she was killed...
« Reply #422 on: February 07, 2015, 01:37:AM »
I agree the results are unsafe.

The CCRC were underestimating the possibility of contamination. The commissioners had either not seen or had ignored a note recording that the sound moderator had been fully dismantled on the 29th April 1986, under conditions that could have caused accidental transfer of DNA.They ignored or were unaware that the sound moderator might have been dismantled by the jury at the trial judge's invitation. The commissioners did not understand the way that DNA profiling tests had been carried out: pooling possible DNA-containing materials from mulitiple baffles at different depths in the moderator. They discounted the significance that no blood had been detected on and in the moderator when it was examined before the DNA profiling and the advice of their experts that the DNA could not be implicitly linked with blood.

No blood was visible on or in the moderator. Limited chemical testing (KM testing) did not reveal the presence of any blood. The red stains on one of the baffles removed from the moderator shown below were not blood. They were probably rust. The flake on the rim of the baffle appeared to be "soot". Several such flakes were present inside the moderator.

Webster quoted:

The Appeal Court judges accepted all my arguments dealing with potential contamination of the sound moderator, reproducing a large part of one of my reports in their judgment paragraphs 503-506.

Offline Patti

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Re: June Bamber, did not attend bible class evening before she was killed...
« Reply #423 on: February 07, 2015, 01:40:AM »
Plus 34 years experience: It is still my opinion that an incriminatory combination of blood groups could result from sequentially removing parts of a "heterogeneous" blood flake made of an imperfect mixture of blood from more than one person.

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: June Bamber, did not attend bible class evening before she was killed...
« Reply #424 on: February 07, 2015, 02:09:AM »
I agree the results are unsafe.

The CCRC were underestimating the possibility of contamination. The commissioners had either not seen or had ignored a note recording that the sound moderator had been fully dismantled on the 29th April 1986, under conditions that could have caused accidental transfer of DNA.They ignored or were unaware that the sound moderator might have been dismantled by the jury at the trial judge's invitation. The commissioners did not understand the way that DNA profiling tests had been carried out: pooling possible DNA-containing materials from mulitiple baffles at different depths in the moderator. They discounted the significance that no blood had been detected on and in the moderator when it was examined before the DNA profiling and the advice of their experts that the DNA could not be implicitly linked with blood.

No blood was visible on or in the moderator. Limited chemical testing (KM testing) did not reveal the presence of any blood. The red stains on one of the baffles removed from the moderator shown below were not blood. They were probably rust. The flake on the rim of the baffle appeared to be "soot". Several such flakes were present inside the moderator.

Webster quoted:

The Appeal Court judges accepted all my arguments dealing with potential contamination of the sound moderator, reproducing a large part of one of my reports in their judgment paragraphs 503-506.

The appeal decision though went beyond that and said even if not for contamination the evidence still would not have been sufficient to overturn the case.

Ultimately, the only DNA test that would matter is a test of the blood that had been removed, tested and determined to have been Sheila's.  The testing destroyed that blood though and whatever blood wasn't tested by the prosecution or defense in 1985 and 1986 wasn't preserved.

Even if blood had been proven to have remained in the moderator and such blood proved to be June's that still would not prove the blood removed in 1985 and 1986 didn't belong to someone else. That is the quandry of the defense.

Most cases where DNA results in a release are cases where the perpetrator's DNA is present and they end up finding out the person in jail doesn't match such DNA.  Most often it is crimes where a rape occcured but perps do leave their DNA on cigarette butts, and even leave their blood at a scene. Fingernail clippings of victims and a perp leaving saliva on a victim are other sources.

The facts of a case determine what role DNA can play.  If this case happened now they would not have done a blood test on the blood removed from the moderator, they would have done a DNA test. So today DNA could play a role but that ship sailed since the blood was tested from blood type and such test destroyed the DNA of the samples that were tested and no blood was set aside for future testing.       

As a practical matter blood int he moderator at all is very bad for Jeremy.  There should not be any blood inside at all, clearly the moderator was used.  The defense was stuck with a crappy argument- that Sheila went and got the moderator out, attached it, used it to kill everyone else then put it back downstairs in the closet before killing herself without it and the blood inside was June and Neville's.  Not only is it unlikely June and Neville's blood could mix without there being obvious signs worse yet it makes no sense for Sheila to get the moderator out and then put it away. 

The defense had a choice either offer nothing at all to rebut the moderator evidence or come up with this bad story. This bad story was to avoid having no rebuttal at all but it doesn't make it a meritorious rebuttal. 

Unless the defense could establish the blood was planted and the lab concealed they found blood in the rifle there is not much hope for Jeremy.  That's about the only thing that could get Jeremy freed.

Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline Patti

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Re: June Bamber, did not attend bible class evening before she was killed...
« Reply #425 on: February 07, 2015, 02:28:AM »
The appeal decision though went beyond that and said even if not for contamination the evidence still would not have been sufficient to overturn the case.

Ultimately, the only DNA test that would matter is a test of the blood that had been removed, tested and determined to have been Sheila's.  The testing destroyed that blood though and whatever blood wasn't tested by the prosecution or defense in 1985 and 1986 wasn't preserved.

Even if blood had been proven to have remained in the moderator and such blood proved to be June's that still would not prove the blood removed in 1985 and 1986 didn't belong to someone else. That is the quandry of the defense.

Most cases where DNA results in a release are cases where the perpetrator's DNA is present and they end up finding out the person in jail doesn't match such DNA.  Most often it is crimes where a rape occcured but perps do leave their DNA on cigarette butts, and even leave their blood at a scene. Fingernail clippings of victims and a perp leaving saliva on a victim are other sources.

The facts of a case determine what role DNA can play.  If this case happened now they would not have done a blood test on the blood removed from the moderator, they would have done a DNA test. So today DNA could play a role but that ship sailed since the blood was tested from blood type and such test destroyed the DNA of the samples that were tested and no blood was set aside for future testing.       

As a practical matter blood int he moderator at all is very bad for Jeremy.  There should not be any blood inside at all, clearly the moderator was used.  The defense was stuck with a crappy argument- that Sheila went and got the moderator out, attached it, used it to kill everyone else then put it back downstairs in the closet before killing herself without it and the blood inside was June and Neville's.  Not only is it unlikely June and Neville's blood could mix without there being obvious signs worse yet it makes no sense for Sheila to get the moderator out and then put it away. 

The defense had a choice either offer nothing at all to rebut the moderator evidence or come up with this bad story. This bad story was to avoid having no rebuttal at all but it doesn't make it a meritorious rebuttal. 

Unless the defense could establish the blood was planted and the lab concealed they found blood in the rifle there is not much hope for Jeremy.  That's about the only thing that could get Jeremy freed.

Again: The CCRC were underestimating the possibility of contamination. The commissioners had either not seen or had ignored a note recording that the sound moderator had been fully dismantled on the 29th April 1986, under conditions that could have caused accidental transfer of DNA.

The silencer was handled by relatives of June, the silencer was put on the rifle (18) It was ballistically tested by Fletcher. The whole test was based on the possibility that no contamination was possible, but it was likely...and that likely makes the evidence unsafe.

Its no use blinding a jury with science they are not familiar with. All they wanted to know was Sheila's blood inside the silencer and they were told it was.  In 2002 this was not the case at all for the COA excepted that it was only likely which means undermines what the jury was told in 1996. Had the jury been sitting in 2002 the outcome may have been different because at the end of the day there would be uncertainty, so therefore a conviction of guilty may not have been imposed.  The jury wanted an answer of yes or no, not a maybe, or likely.... :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\
« Last Edit: February 07, 2015, 02:45:AM by Patti »

Offline David1819

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Re: June Bamber, did not attend bible class evening before she was killed...
« Reply #426 on: February 07, 2015, 02:35:AM »

Nothing you posted deals with these relevant facts you lack the expertise to debate the issue competently and are just making up your own crap.


This is why I'm usually reluctant to debate with you. Your just rude unsporting and ill-mannered

I have included my sources and books that I have got the information from. What I initially mentioned was what I got from the CCRC 2012 statement. Peer reviewed expert testimony about the gunshot wounds. Its not my opinion its theirs.

Just for the record folks when Scipio encounters expert testimony that he does not like he accuses them of being Laurel and Hardy! Its laughable how anyone can expect to be taken seriously when they accuse legitimate experts of being fools when they have no professional or expert legitimacy themselves.



Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: June Bamber, did not attend bible class evening before she was killed...
« Reply #427 on: February 07, 2015, 04:43:AM »
This is why I'm usually reluctant to debate with you. Your just rude unsporting and ill-mannered

I have included my sources and books that I have got the information from. What I initially mentioned was what I got from the CCRC 2012 statement. Peer reviewed expert testimony about the gunshot wounds. Its not my opinion its theirs.

Just for the record folks when Scipio encounters expert testimony that he does not like he accuses them of being Laurel and Hardy! Its laughable how anyone can expect to be taken seriously when they accuse legitimate experts of being fools when they have no professional or expert legitimacy themselves.

Your sources don't support your claims. The link you posted contains NOTHING you posted at all, it refers to Neville's wounds.  The autopsy report doesn't state that there were muzzle imprints on Sheila you made up the claim and just took the measurements of the entrance wounds and asserted the measurements were the muzzle imprints.  Your claim about 22 rifles not resulting in drawback is nonsense, the firearms is not nearly as important as the location of the wound.  You were wrong about the only blood in the moderator being the flake and even got the location the flake came from wrong.

To date you have posted only the same disproved claims that some propagandists have raised and for good measure added some false claims of your own.

You lost this debate from the outset by posting made up claims, posting sources means nothing if those sources don't back up what you claim.  In fact when you post a source that fails to back up what you claim you lose credibility.

As for Laurel and hardy I clearly explained to you why their claims were a joke.  There is no such thing as a recognized scientific ability to look at a photo and assess time of death based thereupon.  I challenged you to prove otherwise but you couldn't because there is no such thing.  The courts only accept recognized science which is why their claims were completely worthless so far as the courts are concerned. 
« Last Edit: February 07, 2015, 05:52:PM by scipio_usmc »
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Offline tyler

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Re: June Bamber, did not attend bible class evening before she was killed...
« Reply #428 on: February 07, 2015, 07:43:AM »
Your sources don't support your claims. The link you posted contains NOTHING you posted at all it refers to Neville's wounds.  The autopsy report doesn't state that there were muzzle imprints on Sheila you made up the claim and just took the measurements of the entrance wounds and asserted the measurements were the muzzle imprints.  Your claim about 22 rifles not resulting in drawback is nonsense, the firearms is not nearly as important as the location of the wound.  You were wrong about the only blood in the moderator being the flake and even got the location the flake came from wrong.

To date you have posted only the same disproved lies that some propagandists have raised and for good measure added some of you own.

You lost this debate from the outset by posting made up claims, posting sources means nothing if those sources don't back up what you claim.  in fact when you post a source that fails to back up what you claim you look like a fool.
The personal insults contained in your post are unacceptable imo. I hope David sees fit to report you to a moderator!

Offline lookout

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Re: June Bamber, did not attend bible class evening before she was killed...
« Reply #429 on: February 07, 2015, 08:39:AM »
This is why I'm usually reluctant to debate with you. Your just rude unsporting and ill-mannered

I have included my sources and books that I have got the information from. What I initially mentioned was what I got from the CCRC 2012 statement. Peer reviewed expert testimony about the gunshot wounds. Its not my opinion its theirs.

Just for the record folks when Scipio encounters expert testimony that he does not like he accuses them of being Laurel and Hardy! Its laughable how anyone can expect to be taken seriously when they accuse legitimate experts of being fools when they have no professional or expert legitimacy themselves.





Don't let that poster put you off David. He's one sad individual whose childishness in being insulting can only spell failure in his argument.
Carry on posting because your posts,regardless what your personal thoughts are,far surpass those of someone who continues wearing blinkers.
You're a valuable member on this board,whichever way you vote.

Offline tyler

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Re: June Bamber, did not attend bible class evening before she was killed...
« Reply #430 on: February 07, 2015, 08:45:AM »
I fully agree Lookout.

Offline maggie

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Re: June Bamber, did not attend bible class evening before she was killed...
« Reply #431 on: February 07, 2015, 09:14:AM »
Your sources don't support your claims. The link you posted contains NOTHING you posted at all it refers to Neville's wounds.  The autopsy report doesn't state that there were muzzle imprints on Sheila you made up the claim and just took the measurements of the entrance wounds and asserted the measurements were the muzzle imprints.  Your claim about 22 rifles not resulting in drawback is nonsense, the firearms is not nearly as important as the location of the wound.  You were wrong about the only blood in the moderator being the flake and even got the location the flake came from wrong.

To date you have posted only the same disproved lies that some propagandists have raised and for good measure added some of you own.

You lost this debate from the outset by posting made up claims, posting sources means nothing if those sources don't back up what you claim.  in fact when you post a source that fails to back up what you claim you look like a fool.
Scipio, the above post is completely offensive and unacceptable, please moderate your language. Words such as 'fool' and 'liar' have no place on a debating forum. David1819 and all other posters have a right to post their thoughts and conclusions as part of the debate without being subjected to such insults. Thank you.

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: June Bamber, did not attend bible class evening before she was killed...
« Reply #432 on: February 07, 2015, 05:59:PM »
Scipio, the above post is completely offensive and unacceptable, please moderate your language. Words such as 'fool' and 'liar' have no place on a debating forum. David1819 and all other posters have a right to post their thoughts and conclusions as part of the debate without being subjected to such insults. Thank you.

Done but I see no difference at all in the posts. Posting that it is foolish to post a source that fails to support the proposition you assert seems to me to be a no brainer not a personal attack. 

Posting "various disproved lies are being recounted" versus "various disproved false claims" have the same meaning in my eyes so I don't see how it changes anything.

He has no source for the claim there were muzzle rings on Sheila's wounds he just made the claim up. I don't know any nicer way to say it than he made it up so I didn't change that. If you have some suggestion you can let me know.
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Offline David1819

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Re: June Bamber, did not attend bible class evening before she was killed...
« Reply #433 on: February 07, 2015, 06:46:PM »

You lost this debate from the outset by posting made up claims, posting sources means nothing if those sources don't back up what you claim.  In fact when you post a source that fails to back up what you claim you lose credibility.


If believing that makes you feel better then fine believe what you want. its irrelevant to me

What I said was from a peer reviewed report acknowledged by the CCRC and what they describe as "substantial". But feel free to contact both forensic pathologists and tell them they are wrong.

http://www.healthgrades.com/physician/dr-ljubisa-dragovic-w5djr

http://www.healthgrades.com/physician/dr-marcella-fierro-w4ht3

You can find their profiles and contact information above. So irritate them with your ramblings of how you are correct and how they are wrong.

P.S. what's the weather like on planet Scipio?

 

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: June Bamber, did not attend bible class evening before she was killed...
« Reply #434 on: February 07, 2015, 08:15:PM »
If believing that makes you feel better then fine believe what you want. its irrelevant to me

What I said was from a peer reviewed report acknowledged by the CCRC and what they describe as "substantial". But feel free to contact both forensic pathologists and tell them they are wrong.

http://www.healthgrades.com/physician/dr-ljubisa-dragovic-w5djr

http://www.healthgrades.com/physician/dr-marcella-fierro-w4ht3

You can find their profiles and contact information above. So irritate them with your ramblings of how you are correct and how they are wrong.

P.S. what's the weather like on planet Scipio?

 

Their claims were rejected by the CCRC, while you might be immature enough to write to them and harrass them I have no reason to bother.

Their argument was a strawman argument as is yours.  They started out from an erroneous factual premise.

Here is the pathology report:

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,988.msg29919.html#msg29919

They MISREPRESENTED this report as finding a muzzle imprint on the lower wound.  It states no such thing it describes powder tattoing not a muzzle imprint which they refer to as a barrel abrasion which is just another term for muzzle imprint. SO this alone is fatal to Fowler's argument his argument was based on a false fact he invented.

They took the strawman argument that she had a muzzle imprint and then proceeded to do muzzle imprint tests on pig flesh. The testing itself was scientifically flawed because skin is not perfectly flat at the neck like they were working with and moreover skin stretched out on a body is different than a piece of flat pig flesh.  So the marks at best would be similar not perfect.  This testing was a waste of time though because there were no muzzle imprints on Sheila the whole thing was just made up by Fowler.  Fowler decided to pretend that Vanezis had found a muzzle imprint though he didn't and then decided that based on the testing a muzzle imprint with the moderator would show the whole face of the moderator though in actuality it is possible to get a muzzle imprint only of the hole in the moderator.  Earlier I posted a muzzle imprint from a Colt .45 caliber pistol.  That particular imprint left the entire face of the gun not just the barrel however that doesn't always happen.  Sometimes just the imprint of the barrel is left not the rest of the gun and sometimes no muzzle imprint at all.

Experts claim all sorts of things that are not scientifically valid which is the whole reason why both sides can consult scientists.  We don't even need to get that far though of getting a scientist to refute this nonsense because the whole thing was based on the FALSE premise that Vanezis reported a muzzle imprint. There was no muzzle imprint observed though so there is no muzzle imprint for experts on both sides to evaluate and thus no basis to argue over whether it was caused by the rifle with or without the moderator since it doesn't exist.

It is not the first time an expert started from a false factual position not will it be the last.  Experts make mistakes in their own field and also by incorrectly assessing the facts.  Ferguson made the same kind of mistake in his new statement to the defense that was provided on appeal.  He made the factual error of thinking that the family was told Colin wanted to take custody away from Sheila and that her family supported such.  He was shown a letter from Colin discussing such.  He then assessed how she would react negatively to such.  But the defense mislead him, the letter in question was never provided to the family and Colin said he never told the family of his consideration of taking custody.  Since his new assessment was based on a fact that didn't happen his assessment was meaningless and the same is true of Fowler's muzzle imprint assessment of a nonexistent muzzle imprint.

I deal with experts for a living and have shown up my fair share.  Most recently I tore apart an insurance company's expert who claimed a wall bowed because of earth movement. He admitted in his report that the wall was flush with a slab of cement up against it.  If the cement was still flush how could it be bowed?  I got him to admit that most likely the cement and wall were installed at an angle instead of squared up with the surrounding walls. The insurance company's entire case for refusing to cover the damage based on an earth movement exclusion fell apart. This wasn't even under oath it was at a settlement conference. The company ended up agreeing to pay more than the policy limits because I filed a bad faith claim against them as well and had evidence to support it. Just because an expert claims something doesn't make it true.   
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry