June Bamber, did not attend bible class evening before she was killed...

[Jane]

Women punch too you know. Sheila punched a wall,remember ? Was this instead of punching a human ? Didn't she also punch her hand through a window ? Several stitches for that little cut ! Also one of the twins received a punch from her.
The first reason that social services were called out was because one of the boys had suspicious marks/bruises and burn marks.
Don't forget that Sheilas' health had deteriorated rapidly,latterly. Look up the word deteriorated.

I don't expect you to exonerate Jeremy when I can clearly see that you believe him to be the murderer,which is your prerogative,but cut some slack when it comes to Sheila,as you know full well that she was a very sick woman who WAS prone to sudden outbursts of a psychotic nature.
Just because Sheila was a woman,doesn't excuse her from not having the strength of a man during one of her episodes suddenly becomes an impossibility to those who find her innocent ?

Because nobody let-on about the black eye tells me that those concerned had a jolly good idea,but their loyalty to the family would have forbidden any " guesswork " so therefore the less said,etc,and this is my thought on the subject.

Lookout, punching a wall/putting on's hand through a window is vastly different from punching a person. DID one of the twins receive the injury from Sheila? Had that been the case it would have been such an asset to the defence that they'd have subpoenaed Social Services to give evidence OR did they offer and were turned down so Jeremy could be framed?

I was and remain FULLY aware of how ill was Sheila but as yet, NO ONE has come forward to offer any evidence of her using the sort of violence necessary to eradicate her parents and children, so all we're left with is the possibility that her previous, relatively, by comparison, blips, SUDDENLY escalated into a full blow. I TOTALLY concur that past behaviour isn't a guaranteed barometer for future behaviour, but you can't pin 4 murders and suicide onto her because there's a CHANCE she did it.

Are you SO determined to make Sheila responsible for June's black eye, that you have not only the family, but their employees conspiring to convict Jeremy?

[Alias]

April, it wasn´t all that sudden as if outbursts hadn´t happened before. The meter man was terrified of her and locked himself in his car. Freddie Emami feared for his life the night Sheila had a serious episode. Not sudden.

[Jan]

Perhaps he should have studied, rather than go on jolly ups.

He would have no idea if Sheila would have been capable of shooting herself again after the first shot. All shots are different. Even now there is debate on it. The pathologist at trial saying it was impossible.

All he knew was Sheila did not die after the first shot, he then had to make an instant decision.

Show me the source document where it was said it was impossible for her to shoot herself twice?

Here is the document explaining why it was not raised in the first place

[Jane]

April, it wasn´t all that sudden as if outbursts hadn´t happened before. The meter man was terrified of her and locked himself in his car. Freddie Emami feared for his life the night Sheila had a serious episode. Not sudden.

Alias, I have read through Freddie's WS twice and although he admits to feeling scared I cannot find anywhere where he says he was in fear of his life.

[Jan]

June wasn´t just a deeply religious woman, she was also a Churchwarden. That is a position that comes with a lot of responsibilities.
I don´t think she would easily have forgotten all about a regular, weekly arrangement at the church. There would have had to be a more substantial reason for her not going that night - and not advising she wasn´t coming. Out of character and out of sync with her position in the church.

Responsibilities and Duties of the Churchwarden
http://www.churchwardens.com/duties.html"

As BW said she thought she interrupted an argument then perhaps the "family discussion" did take over the evening. 

[Jan]

Alias, I have read through Freddie's WS twice and although he admits to feeling scared I cannot find anywhere where he says he was in fear of his life.

I think it is an interpretation of he was scared for his own safety and the safety of others.

[Jane]

I think it is an interpretation of he was scared for his own safety and the safety of others.

Which is very different from saying he was scared for his life which makes it sound as if he thought she was about to kill him or someone else.

[Alias]

Alias, I have read through Freddie's WS twice and although he admits to feeling scared I cannot find anywhere where he says he was in fear of his life.

He was in extreme fear for his - and everybody else´s safety during Sheila´s prolonged episode.
He didn´t say life, that is true.
However, "I was extremely scared for everyone´s safety" is pretty strong. Not merely a "blip".

[Jane]

He was in extreme fear for his - and everybody else´s safety during Sheila´s prolonged episode.
He didn´t say life, that is true.
However, "I was extremely scared for everyone´s safety" is pretty strong. Not merely a "blip".

Sounds like you like to have the last word, Alias but I have to reiterated that being "extremely scared for everyone's safety" is not the same thing a being scared for one's life.

[lookout]

And this,a grown man who looked as though he could look after himself,saying this.!

[Alias]

Sounds like you like to have the last word, Alias but I have to reiterated that being "extremely scared for everyone's safety" is not the same thing a being scared for one's life.

No, normally I am not like that, I don´t give a toss. It´s just that sometimes your patience is tested.

[Jane]

No, normally I am not like that, I don´t give a toss. It´s just that sometimes your patience is tested.

I recognize that feeling, Alias

[Alias]

To be quite frank, at some point not too far back, you started "talking down" to people, April, including me. I can tolerate a lot of things, but not a condescending tone.
There, I said it.
I think we can disagree, but still be polite to one another.

[Jane]

To be quite frank, at some point not too far back, you started "talking down" to people, April, including me. I can tolerate a lot of things, but not a condescending tone.
There, I said it.
I think we can disagree, but still be polite to one another.

Alias, I'm sorry about that. The worst I've felt of you is that sometimes I think you challenge for the sake of it and I find your fence sitting somewhat one-sided so quite possibly you'll have detected irritation on my part.

I'm perfectly happy for us to disagree. I don't think it's ever occurred to me that we WEREN'T polite.

[Alias]

Alias, I'm sorry about that. The worst I've felt of you is that sometimes I think you challenge for the sake of it and I find your fence sitting somewhat one-sided so quite possibly you'll have detected irritation on my part.

I'm perfectly happy for us to disagree. I don't think it's ever occurred to me that we WEREN'T polite.

That is because I think for Jeremy to have committed the murders, he would have had to have an accomplice who was there with him. That is hardly ever discussed, so I come across as pro most of the time.
Can´t see why it should irritate you - you´ve been one yourself!