June Bamber, did not attend bible class evening before she was killed...

[Jan]

He did seem surprised.

Suggesting it was dog. Then saying Neville may have said 'she' rather than 'Sheila'.

I said don't mention the dog  But you had to do it . Even though we could all see the elephant in the room


But actually you have re-enforced my point - he had a month if he was the murderer, to establish that two shot suicides are not uncommon and find out the reasons why - but this man who meticulously planned such a complicated murder and alibi - seemed surprised and came up with a stupid comment about the dog.

Strange that.

[lookout]

I agree, she just gave it a miss and forgot she was supposed to pick someone up.

Nope--------June had a black eye and obviously felt embarrassed about having to lie about it,so said nothing.

[Caroline]

Nope--------June had a black eye and obviously felt embarrassed about having to lie about it,so said nothing.

Why would she have to lie about it?

[lookout]

Why would she have to lie about it?

Because she couldn't have said outright that her daughter walloped her,could she ? This was my take on how the black eye appeared,and not the old chestnut about walking into doors. Had THAT been the case and had been a GENUINE injury,then June would definitely have still gone about her business as usual especially her Bible classes.

[Jane]

Because she couldn't have said outright that her daughter walloped her,could she ? This was my take on how the black eye appeared,and not the old chestnut about walking into doors. Had THAT been the case and had been a GENUINE injury,then June would definitely have still gone about her business as usual especially her Bible classes.

Of course, you have GENUINE proof that Sheila hit her? I don't find it at all strange, that with a sudden work overload dumped on her by having to be a full time carer and head cook and bottle washer to three extras in the house, time simply ran away with her.

[Adam]

I said don't mention the dog  But you had to do it . Even though we could all see the elephant in the room


But actually you have re-enforced my point - he had a month if he was the murderer, to establish that two shot suicides are not uncommon and find out the reasons why - but this man who meticulously planned such a complicated murder and alibi - seemed surprised and came up with a stupid comment about the dog.

Strange that.

Perhaps he should have studied, rather than go on jolly ups.

He would have no idea if Sheila would have been capable of shooting herself again after the first shot. All shots are different. Even now there is debate on it. The pathologist at trial saying it was impossible.

All he knew was Sheila did not die after the first shot, he then had to make an instant decision.

[lookout]

Of course, you have GENUINE proof that Sheila hit her? I don't find it at all strange, that with a sudden work overload dumped on her by having to be a full time carer and head cook and bottle washer to three extras in the house, time simply ran away with her.

Have you got proof that Sheila didn't hit her ?

[Jane]

Have you got proof that Sheila didn't hit her ?

No, but I can think of several satisfactory reasons for the injury. The difference is you seem to want Sheila to have hit her mother.

[Mr. Gee]

No, but I can think of several satisfactory reasons for the injury. The difference is you seem to want Sheila to have hit her mother.

Perhaps it was Jeremy? He seems to be blamed for everything else.

[lookout]

No, but I can think of several satisfactory reasons for the injury. The difference is you seem to want Sheila to have hit her mother.

It's not a case of " me wanting Sheila to hit her mother "..
You know ( if you still believe so  ) as well as most,that Sheila was like a coiled spring,who DID have a violent streak because she used to land out at anyone who happened to be in her way,including her children.
Now give me a valid reason as to Junes' injury and her reason for not informing her Bible class, when again,we all knew that she was an honest,Godfearing woman ,the type who wouldn't have let her friends down and who wouldn't have been so ill-mannered as not to reply or answer them.

[Alias]

It's not a case of " me wanting Sheila to hit her mother "..
You know ( if you still believe so  ) as well as most,that Sheila was like a coiled spring,who DID have a violent streak because she used to land out at anyone who happened to be in her way,including her children.
Now give me a valid reason as to Junes' injury and her reason for not informing her Bible class, when again,we all knew that she was an honest,Godfearing woman ,the type who wouldn't have let her friends down and who wouldn't have been so ill-mannered as not to reply or answer them.

June wasn´t just a deeply religious woman, she was also a Churchwarden. That is a position that comes with a lot of responsibilities.
I don´t think she would easily have forgotten all about a regular, weekly arrangement at the church. There would have had to be a more substantial reason for her not going that night - and not advising she wasn´t coming. Out of character and out of sync with her position in the church.

Responsibilities and Duties of the Churchwarden
http://www.churchwardens.com/duties.html

[susan]

Alias quite right June would take her responsibilities seriously and would not just forsake them without a good reason and without contacting somebody if she was unable to carry out her arrangements.

[lookout]

June wasn´t just a deeply religious woman, she was also a Churchwarden. That is a position that comes with a lot of responsibilities.
I don´t think she would easily have forgotten all about a regular, weekly arrangement at the church. There would have had to be a more substantial reason for her not going that night - and not advising she wasn´t coming. Out of character and out of sync with her position in the church.

Responsibilities and Duties of the Churchwarden
http://www.churchwardens.com/duties.html

Agreed. It was a responsible position in church. A job which June enjoyed and was dedicated to.

[Jane]

It's not a case of " me wanting Sheila to hit her mother "..
You know ( if you still believe so  ) as well as most,that Sheila was like a coiled spring,who DID have a violent streak because she used to land out at anyone who happened to be in her way,including her children.
Now give me a valid reason as to Junes' injury and her reason for not informing her Bible class, when again,we all knew that she was an honest,Godfearing woman ,the type who wouldn't have let her friends down and who wouldn't have been so ill-mannered as not to reply or answer them.

Lookout, you must have realized that I an hugely concerned that Sheila was let down, but it doesn't mean I want to see, lumped onto her, every crime in Christendom in order to exonerate Jeremy.

Regarding her "violent" streak, I wonder where, when she wasn't ill, this would fall on a scale of 1 to 10. During what we know of her behaviour during psychotic episodes, the number of times she's been known to lash out at others without provocation, have been extremely rare. For me, there just isn't enough evidence, from any quarter, to make me think it was habitual.

June's "mysterious" absence from her Bible class. We are told that the Bambers requested that Sheila and the children visited them because they wanted to see the children before Colin took them on holiday. I can't believe that June wouldn't have been prepared to give ONE Bible class a miss because her family were staying but maybe she thought a couple of hours away from the house would help her unwind having had extras to cater for on top of harvest being in full swing. You say she wouldn't have let her friends down. What about her not wanting to let her family down? She may have FULLY intended to phone the person she was giving a lift to but become tied up with giving the boys their supper, bathing them and putting them to bed.

The black eye COULD have been the result of hitting a post -although I will allow that the explanation is somewhat trite- personally I'd be more inclined to believe one of the boys wopped her, accidentally, with a toy/book? PARTLY because I see punching someone in the eye deliberately as being a MAN thing to do. A woman, IMO, would be MORE inclined to slap. "Hitting a post" MAY have been a deliberate, throw away line because she didn't want to blame the boys. Neither the cleaner nor the farm secretary has mentioned seeing her with a black eye.

[lookout]

 Women punch too you know. Sheila punched a wall,remember ? Was this instead of punching a human ? Didn't she also punch her hand through a window ? Several stitches for that little cut ! Also one of the twins received a punch from her.
The first reason that social services were called out was because one of the boys had suspicious marks/bruises and burn marks.
Don't forget that Sheilas' health had deteriorated rapidly,latterly. Look up the word deteriorated.

I don't expect you to exonerate Jeremy when I can clearly see that you believe him to be the murderer,which is your prerogative,but cut some slack when it comes to Sheila,as you know full well that she was a very sick woman who WAS prone to sudden outbursts of a psychotic nature.
Just because Sheila was a woman,doesn't excuse her from not having the strength of a man during one of her episodes suddenly becomes an impossibility to those who find her innocent ?

Because nobody let-on about the black eye tells me that those concerned had a jolly good idea,but their loyalty to the family would have forbidden any " guesswork " so therefore the less said,etc,and this is my thought on the subject.