Author Topic: Miscellaneous Notes...  (Read 28380 times)

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Online Steve_uk

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Re: Miscellaneous Notes...
« Reply #555 on: April 18, 2015, 07:37:PM »
The recommended cut is from a starting point of between 50 and 100MG  They don't prescribe over 200MG anymore because more than 100MG is neither considered safe nor is significantly more effective than 50-100MG.

She was being given way too much Haldol and she wasn't taking a countering agent which is why she was over tranquilized.
But she did miss her dose for July and there are questions to be asked there as well as how she might have reacted by August 7,which if you work out the timeline would have been around the time all of the Haloperidol would have worn off.

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: Miscellaneous Notes...
« Reply #556 on: April 18, 2015, 07:41:PM »
But she did miss her dose for July and there are questions to be asked there as well as how she might have reacted by August 7,which if you work out the timeline would have been around the time all of the Haloperidol would have worn off.

She didn't miss any dose, she was given her July injection on July 11, 1985.  That is the dose that was 100MG instead of the 200MG she had been receiving.

For the injections:

"Optimally effective doses appear to be around 50-100 mg/4 weeks. The use of doses above 100 mg/4 weeks is difficult to support given data available."

http://pb.rcpsych.org/content/29/3/104.full

As I pointed out in the past they stopped manufacturing the Decanoate (injections) in dosages higher than 100MG.  When they use extremely high dosages it is done orally and done only for a limited period of time.  It is done specifically to sedate they use extremely high doses in order to tranquilize someone when they don't want to use an ordinary tranquilizer. 

She never should have been on 200MG based on what we know today and what we know today is that reducing her to 100MG would not reduce the effectiveness.   
« Last Edit: April 18, 2015, 07:48:PM by scipio_usmc »
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Offline lookout

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Re: Miscellaneous Notes...
« Reply #557 on: April 18, 2015, 07:41:PM »
Sheila wasn't taken off it, she had her dose reduced.






As you've highlighted----------Andrea Yates was taken off it. I DIDN'T say Sheila was. ::) Oh God !

Offline Jane

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Re: Miscellaneous Notes...
« Reply #558 on: April 18, 2015, 07:51:PM »
But she did miss her dose for July and there are questions to be asked there as well as how she might have reacted by August 7,which if you work out the timeline would have been around the time all of the Haloperidol would have worn off.


And she wasn't being monitored.

Offline Alias

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Re: Miscellaneous Notes...
« Reply #559 on: April 18, 2015, 07:56:PM »
Sheila´s regular doctor, Dr. Angelou, was angry that Dr. Wilkinson halved Sheila´s dose two days after she began working at her practice.
Why would she be if it didn´t matter one bit?
« Last Edit: April 18, 2015, 08:09:PM by Alias »

Offline Jane

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Re: Miscellaneous Notes...
« Reply #560 on: April 18, 2015, 08:00:PM »
She didn't miss any dose, she was given her July injection on July 11, 1985.  That is the dose that was 100MG instead of the 200MG she had been receiving.

For the injections:

"Optimally effective doses appear to be around 50-100 mg/4 weeks. The use of doses above 100 mg/4 weeks is difficult to support given data available."

http://pb.rcpsych.org/content/29/3/104.full

As I pointed out in the past they stopped manufacturing the Decanoate (injections) in dosages higher than 100MG.  When they use extremely high dosages it is done orally and done only for a limited period of time.  It is done specifically to sedate they use extremely high doses in order to tranquilize someone when they don't want to use an ordinary tranquilizer. 

She never should have been on 200MG based on what we know today and what we know today is that reducing her to 100MG would not reduce the effectiveness.


But she wasn't being monitored. No one checked if she was taking her countering meds. No one visited to make sure she felt OK on the new dose. I know little of anti psychotics but I DO know about anti depressants and they can't be massively reduced in one dose. They have to be reduced very slowly over long periods or the results can be disastrous.

Offline Alias

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Re: Miscellaneous Notes...
« Reply #561 on: April 18, 2015, 08:02:PM »

But she wasn't being monitored. No one checked if she was taking her countering meds. No one visited to make sure she felt OK on the new dose. I know little of anti psychotics but I DO know about anti depressants and they can't be massively reduced in one dose. They have to be reduced very slowly over long periods or the results can be disastrous.

Scipio refuses to accept this.

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: Miscellaneous Notes...
« Reply #562 on: April 18, 2015, 08:04:PM »
As you've highlighted----------Andrea Yates was taken off it. I DIDN'T say Sheila was. ::) Oh God !

Yates wasn't taken off Haldol.  Yates was taking Venlafaxine and shortly before the murders her dose was nearly doubled to 450MG a day.  At this level Venlafaxine is known to produce homicidal tendencies and to increase suicide. She was also taking other drugs that she should not have been taking with it. 

Her doctor said she was the hardest patient to treat because she was resistant to normal treatment. 

There is no comparison at all between her and Sheila. 

Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: Miscellaneous Notes...
« Reply #563 on: April 18, 2015, 08:07:PM »
Sheila´s regular doctor, Dr. Anelou, was angry that Dr. Wilkinson halved Sheila´s dose two days after she began working at her practice.
Why would she be if it didn´t matter one bit?

Because she wasn't consulted.  The medical data is the medical data.  You are trying to ignore the CURRENT knowledge in a wasted bias attempt to try to pretend that the reduction would have reduced the effectiveness when it would not have.  They don't even make more than 100MG injections anymore because there is no market for it, there is no medical reason seen for prescribing more than 100MG injections.




 
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline maggie

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Re: Miscellaneous Notes...
« Reply #564 on: April 18, 2015, 08:09:PM »

But she wasn't being monitored. No one checked if she was taking her countering meds. No one visited to make sure she felt OK on the new dose. I know little of anti psychotics but I DO know about anti depressants and they can't be massively reduced in one dose. They have to be reduced very slowly over long periods or the results can be disastrous.
Totally agree April, whoever killed the family it's true Sheila's after care and ongoing care was appalling.imo

Offline Alias

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Re: Miscellaneous Notes...
« Reply #565 on: April 18, 2015, 08:12:PM »
Anti-depressants and homicidal ideation

Rusty and his birth family came to believe that a combination of antidepressants improperly prescribed by Dr. Saeed in the days before the tragedy was responsible for Andrea's violent, psychotic behavior.[41][42] According to Dr. Moira Dolan, executive director of the Medical Accountability Network, "homicidal ideation" was added to the warning label of the antidepressant drug Effexor as a rare adverse event, in 2005. Yates, she said, had been taking 450 mg, twice the recommended maximum dose, for a month before killing her children. Dr. Dolan reviewed her medical record at the request of Rusty.[43]

Dr. Lucy Puryear, an expert witness hired by Yates' defense team, countered their contention regarding the administration of her antidepressants, saying the dosages prescribed by Dr. Saeed are not uncommon in practice and had nothing at all to do with her reemergent psychosis. She suggested rather that her psychosis returned as a result of the Haldol having been discontinued by her doctor two weeks earlier.[41] The oral form of haloperidol (Haldol) takes 4–6 days after discontinuation to reach a terminal plasma level of under 1.5%—a medical standard for "complete" elimination of a drug from the body

Offline lookout

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Re: Miscellaneous Notes...
« Reply #566 on: April 18, 2015, 08:15:PM »
Thanks Alias,that's what I read too. Can't argue with Scipio,he ALWAYS has to be right. ::)

Offline Alias

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Re: Miscellaneous Notes...
« Reply #567 on: April 18, 2015, 08:17:PM »
Thanks Alias,that's what I read too. Can't argue with Scipio,he ALWAYS has to be right. ::)

You´re welcome, Lookie!  ;D

Offline Jane

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Re: Miscellaneous Notes...
« Reply #568 on: April 18, 2015, 08:19:PM »
Because she wasn't consulted.  The medical data is the medical data.  You are trying to ignore the CURRENT knowledge in a wasted bias attempt to try to pretend that the reduction would have reduced the effectiveness when it would not have.  They don't even make more than 100MG injections anymore because there is no market for it, there is no medical reason seen for prescribing more than 100MG injections.




 



Unfortunately, CURRENT knowledge wasn't available 30 years ago so it may not be correct to compare directly. I'm prepared to accept that you're right about the lower dose being as effective as the higher but I'm NOT prepared to accept that it's correct to lower the dose in one hit without monitoring the patient. They halved the dose and set her adrift. The psych nurses didn't turn up and there was no follow up appointment booked until after her death which would have made it 20 plus(?) weeks from her discharging herself from hospital. NONE of which has to do with what Jeremy did.

Offline lookout

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Re: Miscellaneous Notes...
« Reply #569 on: April 18, 2015, 08:21:PM »
But she did miss her dose for July and there are questions to be asked there as well as how she might have reacted by August 7,which if you work out the timeline would have been around the time all of the Haloperidol would have worn off.






Steve,I believe this subject forms part of the medical notes for submission.