Miscellaneous Notes...

[guest2181]

That the firer was Sheila whose prints were on it.

Where did she fire it and what at?

[lookout]

Where did she fire it and what at?

She may have fired it into the air from the back door,as her father went back into the field after supper.Or she could have fired it from an open window. To attract his attention.

[guest2181]

She may have fired it into the air from the back door,as her father went back into the field after supper.Or she could have fired it from an open window. To attract his attention.

What was everybody else doing at this time?

[scipio_usmc]

That the firer was Sheila whose prints were on it.

Mike claiming such is not proof that this is true.  Try finding real evidence.

[Patti]

Please don't speak to Lookout like that Scip.

I know where she is coming from and so do others for this has been discussed before. 

Myth or not:

1. It has been said that someone heard a gun go off round about 10pm that night in the WHF location.  Not much else near the farm except for the small cottages.

2. It has also been said that Sheila's fingerprints were found on one of the guns.

3. lookout is saying that she has read in police files that case shell from a gun was found and is merely asking if anyone knows about it.

[scipio_usmc]

Please don't speak to Lookout like that Scip.

I know where she is coming from and so do others for this has been discussed before. 

Myth or not:

1. It has been said that someone heard a gun go off round about 10pm that night in the WHF location.  Not much else near the farm except for the small cottages.

2. It has also been said that Sheila's fingerprints were found on one of the guns.

3. lookout is saying that she has read in police files that case shell from a gun was found and is merely asking if anyone knows about it.

Lookout constantly presents unproven allegations as facts and this is one of those instances.  Mike's allegation that Sheila's prints were found on the shotgun is not evidence that they were.  She is presenting it as fact though.

It is fair to point out that Mike took a reference that appears to indicate prints were found but only illustrated WHERE on the weapons the prints were found (referring to each location by a letter) not whether the prints were good enough to match to anyone or rule out as belonging to anyone.  We have no indication that they were simply partial prints that were inconclusive.

Depending on Mike's objective that particular day he alleged Nevill and June's prints were the ones found on the rifle or Sheila's.  He alleges whatever he feels like making up that particular day.

In the meantime just because a shotgun shell was found in a field doesn't mean it was fired the night of the murders.  Even if Sheila's prints had been on one of the shotguns that doesn't prove she fired the shotgun on the night of the murders. Nor would anyone firing a shotgun out in the fields prior to the murders have any relation to the murders which were committed later with a 22 caliber rifle.   

I consider the whole inquiry a waste of time but if people want to engage in such inquiry they should at least be using facts not misrepresenting unproven allegations from Mike as fact. 

[Caroline]

Please don't speak to Lookout like that Scip.

I know where she is coming from and so do others for this has been discussed before. 

Myth or not:

1. It has been said that someone heard a gun go off round about 10pm that night in the WHF location.  Not much else near the farm except for the small cottages.

2. It has also been said that Sheila's fingerprints were found on one of the guns.

3. lookout is saying that she has read in police files that case shell from a gun was found and is merely asking if anyone knows about it.

Actually, she's suggesting that Sheila fired it without any evidence. It could have been anyone, we hear gun shots regularly here but no one is being murdered. Heard two shots the other night but as far as I know - no one went crazy with a gun.

If people make unjustified claims, then it's a point for debate. That's the point of the forum to debate.

[guest2181]

Can we get one thing clear here because this has come up before several times.

Firstly there is no evidence that you are able to present which indicates that Ralph kept a loaded shot gun under his bed, we only have Jeremys word for that, in fact we don't even have that, we only have Mikes word. Keeping a loaded shotgun under his bed to shoot foxes is an absolutely preposterous fabrication.

If you can show anybody any evidence that this was the case then I invite you to do so.

Secondly, another repeat offender is that Sheilas fingerprints were found on the above mentioned shotgun, and yet again there is no evidence of this. I have asked this before on countless occasions, the attachement below is all that Mike is relying on to prove that Sheilas fingerprints were on this shotgun, to say it's inconclusive is being very generous indeed, to suggest that there is any hint that this diagram indicates such information is well and truly beyond beyond my comprehension.

And again, if there is anything else that Mike is relying on to show that Sheilas fingerprints were found on this shotgun, or any other shotgun, then I invite him to show us.

I found this old post, it still appears to hold up. 

[Patti]

I can't make head or tail of what that is?

[scipio_usmc]

I can't make head or tail of what that is?

Mike claims this is a document that shows where fingerprints were found on a shotgun and the air rifle. The letters are supposed to correspond to hits for prints.

He has not provided any documents that show analysis of eahc of these supposed letters that is supposed to represent a print.  SO even if this document is real all the prints could have been worthless partials that they could not match to anything.  Recall that there were numerous prints on the murder weapon that were not clear enough or complete enough to match to anyone or even rule out who made them.

Mike has claimed these prints were Sheila's, June's and Nevill's at varying times.  Who he claims made these prints depends on what he feels like arguing at the moment.  Anyone could have picked up one of these guns to move them so a print on the gun doesn't mean much.  They were not used to commit the murders so are not relevant.

The only relevance these guns present is that there were viable weapons for Nevill to try to grab and use against an attacker if he was afforded time to do so.  He could have gone to the kitchen for that very reason but his killer caught up to him too fast.  Clearly they played no roles in the murder though. 

[guest154]

In the meantime just because a shotgun shell was found in a field doesn't mean it was fired the night of the murders.  Even if Sheila's prints had been on one of the shotguns that doesn't prove she fired the shotgun on the night of the murders. Nor would anyone firing a shotgun out in the fields prior to the murders have any relation to the murders which were committed later with a 22 caliber rifle.   

I consider the whole inquiry a waste of time but if people want to engage in such inquiry they should at least be using facts not misrepresenting unproven allegations from Mike as fact.

That's the danger when people posts unproven allegations, others then repeat them as fact & down the it grows legs and people begin to believe it - forgetting where it originally began. It's mis-leading and false.

[guest154]

A shotgun shell case was found in a field - and Mike claims Sheila's fingerprints were found on this (no proof?) - and from this Lookout is saying Sheila fired the shotgun (no proof?)

Is this the crook of it so far?

[Caroline]

That's the danger when people posts unproven allegations, others then repeat them as fact & down the it grows legs and people begin to believe it - forgetting where it originally began. It's mis-leading and false.

It doesn't help anyone either - least of all Jeremy.

[guest154]

It doesn't help anyone either - least of all Jeremy.

My mind boggles why they do this. 

[scipio_usmc]

It doesn't help anyone either - least of all Jeremy.

Some people want to believe that Jeremy is innocent no matter what and they will use anything they can to try to justify such position.  It thus helps them in their effort to pretend they have a solid basis for asserting it.  Others are like Adam and are thus actively trying to get influence the beliefs of others and will thus use anything they can find no matter how unreliable and some will even make things up.

Obviously this won't get Jeremy out of jail but is rationalized as helping him get followers who believe he is innocent and some even irrationally think a movement could influence the government to free him.

Some people like being part of a cause because they want something to do and being part of a cause is enjoyable, others like the attention they garner from it.