Author Topic: 'Bob' Millers notebook, confirms SC's body found on bed, and RB sat on chair...  (Read 32676 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Gillian

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 283
  • ROCHY INDEX 1
Hi april1 - You may like to read the thread regarding Taff Jones' notebook entries which I have tried to decipher like Bob Miller's entries in this thread.  You may find it interesting and helpful.   :)

Offline Gillian

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 283
  • ROCHY INDEX 1
Hi april1 - Bob Miller states "far side of bed" and Taff Jones states "far side of the bed".  Bob Miller states "daughter with .22 rifle by her right side" and Taff Jones states "and on her stomach and resting near her chin was a rifle" so there appears to be discrepencies as to the rifle but consistencies about where Sheila was found.  There are also consistencies about where June's body was found IMO.   :)

Offline lookout

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 48676
Good morning all.
It's that second shot in Sheila's neck that's bugging me. I still maintain that it was " accidental ",as the first hadn't had the desired effect,but would have eventually killed her though not as instant as was wanted.
The second shot was quite some time after the first one because of the blood flow,which would have ceased the minute she was shot,for obvious reasons,and there would have been coagulation,which clearly there wasn't.
What I'm saying is that the photographs showing,or giving the impression of flowing blood doesn't sit well.
I've witnessed accidents,particularly suicide victims where they've severed through a main vein,but have still been alive,and this is how it looks where some are still alive,complete with heartbeat,albeit weak,but neverthless still pumping.
When that photo of Sheila was taken,the tragedy must have occurred  with immediate effect of death to witness that flow of blood. So whenever that pic was taken,was the exact time that she died.

There's never been any exact time of deaths of any of the family,which I find is bad practice. Livor Mortis would have dictated the times of death,and as far as I can see,it was never carried out.

bloggs and son

  • Guest
Hi april1 - Bob Miller states "far side of bed" and Taff Jones states "far side of the bed".  Bob Miller states "daughter with .22 rifle by her right side" and Taff Jones states "and on her stomach and resting near her chin was a rifle" so there appears to be discrepencies as to the rifle but consistencies about where Sheila was found.  There are also consistencies about where June's body was found IMO.   :)
I think that these "inconsistencies" can be put down to witnesses difference perceptions of the same scene?

NewChilledOutHartley

  • Guest
I think that these "inconsistencies" can be put down to witnesses difference perceptions of the same scene?

I agree, it's quite simple really, get 50 people to witness something and then give a report, the chances of getting 50 identical reports are incredibly unlikely.

NewChilledOutHartley

  • Guest
Bews apparently pissed his pants when they all saw the figure at the bedroom window, and he was the first of the three to run off back to the patrol car (Jeremy told me this himself) and recount to PS Saxby what they had all just seen, which in turn was relayed back to the control room with a request that the firearms team should be deployed because the person they had just seen could be armed with a weapon...

Now...

Which witness statement would you most like to see, the one made for him by the DPP, or the one edited to miss out the sighting of the figure at the bedroom window?


Ooooh goody, you're taking requests  :)

Now let's see, as you are suggesting there are a number of different versions, then in order to maintain/instigate transparency, let's have all of the different versions posted, that way members of the forum can view them all and come to their own conclusions. It would certainly stimulate debate.

So, back to the requests:

1. Please could you post all statements made by PC Saxby (and court transcripts if he was called).

There is nothing from him currently on the forum, he stayed behind at the car CA07 whilst Bewes, Myall and Jeremy walked the perimeter of the house. He was one of the three police officers to first arrive at the scene.

2. Please could you post all statements made by PC Myall.

Currently the only thing from him on the forum is a court transcript located here: http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,185.msg488.html#msg488
He was another of the three officers who first attended the scene and he is central to Mikes theory of a sighting of movement in the house. I don't understand how the theory could be considered without viewing his statements.

3. Please could you post all statements made by PS Bewes (and court transcripts if he was called).

Currently there is nothing from him on the forum, he was again one of the first three officers to attend the scene and again central to Mikes theory of a sighting of movement in the house.

4. Please could you post all statements made by PC Collins ( and court transcripts if he was called).

Currently there is nothing from him on the forum. PC Collins was a member of the firearms team and amongst the first to enter the house. It was PC Collins who looked through the kitchen window and saw the body of Nevill whom he mistakenly identified as a female. PC Collins is central to Mikes theory that there were two bodies discovered in the kitchen, it must surely be absolutely crucial to see his statements in order to consider this particular theory of Mikes.

___________________________________________________________________________________

Also, to stop me badgering, Mike if you do not have these statements and you are therefore unable to post them, then please let me know and I will stop asking you for them.  :)

EDIT: NB: I'm aware of the various interviews available on 'Youtube', but let's start at the beginning.

« Last Edit: May 21, 2012, 03:00:PM by -Hartley- »

Offline haughton

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 326
  which ever is correct;  2 downstairs and 3 upstairs or 1 downstairs and 4 upstairs, it all amounts to confusion and too many doubts for a safe conviction !!

bloggs and son

  • Guest
  which ever is correct;  2 downstairs and 3 upstairs or 1 downstairs and 4 upstairs, it all amounts to confusion and too many doubts for a safe conviction !!
Sounds like a Brian Rix farce. Or are you too young to remember those? ;D

Offline haughton

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 326
Grahame; yes, it does sound like a farce, now I come to read it again. But, so does JB's trial!
I do remember Brian Rix, it was in the days of B/W 12inch screens, CRTs and valves. Happy days ? not really !

Offline Gillian

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 283
  • ROCHY INDEX 1
I'm assuming this is the same Bob Miller.  I wonder if he ever got his autobiography published!  :)

CHELMSFORD: Ex-cop's 'Life on Mars' with Essex Police
Wednesday, January 07, 2009
This is Essex

POLICING Essex in the 1970s, if not quite like being on another planet, was very much akin to the popular TV series Life on Mars, according to former detective Bob 'Dusty' Miller.

Flowery ties, colourful characters and supergrass contacts were all part of the era for Bob who spent 30 years in the police force, including a stint on the regional crime squad.

He sees similarities between his time with the force and the BBC TV drama about detective Sam Tyler who travels back in time to 1973.

Now Bob from Springfield has written an autobiography and is hoping to secure a publisher.

The foreword to the book has been written by Leonard 'Nipper' Read, the ex-Scotland Yard detective who arrested the Kray Twins. He has praised Bob's book as being the best of its genre.

Before he retired 12 years ago, Bob was a detective inspector in Great Dunmow and ended his career in a uniformed post in Witham. He admits that his views have moved forward from his days as a young detective.

He has developed a passion for human rights and also has a deep interest in education because he believes the two subjects are inextricably linked, but are lacking within the prison system.

But he still relishes the memories of the 1970s, and says: "It was like the TV programme Life on Mars in many ways.

"A lot of my experiences dovetail with the programme, but there are aspects of the seventies that were missing from the series.

"The equal pay, sex discrimination and race relations legislation all came into effect in the 1970s and all these things affected the CID.

"The late Pam Arnold became the first woman detective in Chelmsford and there were a couple more in Essex.

"The equal pay gave them financial parity with their male colleagues but changes in attitude towards women, thinking of them other than being in the maternal role, did take longer to become embedded.

"The hard-drinking and womanising image of the police officers portrayed in Life on Mars was accurate.

"It was the era of the supergrass and a lot of criminals turned into informers.

"Some of the practices that went on at that time just wouldn't happen now.

"The CID had a lot of power and it was like being part of a very elite club. A DI (detective inspector) would literally run a police station.

"Decisions could be made about prosecutions, but these decisions are now taken by the Crown Prosecution Service.

"In the late seventies the CID was put under uniform control which was the end of an era.

"At that time, Chelmsford was a market town and there was not so much drug-related crime. Burglars were after property, not money for drugs and they all relied on having a good fence to dispose of the property.

"The cases we dealt with included murders, bullion hauls, lorry hijackings and kidnappings.

"Results were achieved correctly most of the time, but there were some travesties of justice which have been well documented."

Bob plans to recount his thoughts on major cases in his book.

He says that life-changing turning points for him were going to the South Pacific in the 1980s when he saw mistreatment of prisoners, and obtaining a degree in humanities with the Open University.

"I became much more involved in politics and really went back to my roots.

"I am a Dagenham boy and my family were socialists. I joined the Labour Party and went on to become, among other things, an Ofsted inspector.

"Life after my time in the police force has been as interesting as time in the force."

Although Bob would not want to see the return of many of the practices of the 1970s he does miss the extrovert characters of the time.

"I think the police force does reflect society and we are in much greyer times now," he said.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2012, 07:14:PM by Gillian »

NewChilledOutHartley

  • Guest
Ooooh goody, you're taking requests  :)

Now let's see, as you are suggesting there are a number of different versions, then in order to maintain/instigate transparency, let's have all of the different versions posted, that way members of the forum can view them all and come to their own conclusions. It would certainly stimulate debate.

So, back to the requests:

1. Please could you post all statements made by PC Saxby (and court transcripts if he was called).

There is nothing from him currently on the forum, he stayed behind at the car CA07 whilst Bewes, Myall and Jeremy walked the perimeter of the house. He was one of the three police officers to first arrive at the scene.

2. Please could you post all statements made by PC Myall.

Currently the only thing from him on the forum is a court transcript located here: http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,185.msg488.html#msg488
He was another of the three officers who first attended the scene and he is central to Mikes theory of a sighting of movement in the house. I don't understand how the theory could be considered without viewing his statements.

3. Please could you post all statements made by PS Bewes (and court transcripts if he was called).

Currently there is nothing from him on the forum, he was again one of the first three officers to attend the scene and again central to Mikes theory of a sighting of movement in the house.

4. Please could you post all statements made by PC Collins ( and court transcripts if he was called).

Currently there is nothing from him on the forum. PC Collins was a member of the firearms team and amongst the first to enter the house. It was PC Collins who looked through the kitchen window and saw the body of Nevill whom he mistakenly identified as a female. PC Collins is central to Mikes theory that there were two bodies discovered in the kitchen, it must surely be absolutely crucial to see his statements in order to consider this particular theory of Mikes.

___________________________________________________________________________________

Also, to stop me badgering, Mike if you do not have these statements and you are therefore unable to post them, then please let me know and I will stop asking you for them.  :)

EDIT: NB: I'm aware of the various interviews available on 'Youtube', but let's start at the beginning.

Bump.

Mike, I wonder if you had a chance to consider the above requests?

Offline mike tesko

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51079
List of witnesses who placed Sheila's body on the far side of the bed:-

(1) - Police surgeon, Dr Craig
(2) - PI "Bob" Miller
(3) - DCI "Taff" Jones

and the following witnesses told others that Sheila's body was found on the bed:-

(4) - DC Clarke
(5) - Police surgeon, Dr Craig

The following witnesses were told that Sheila's body had been found or was on the bed:-

(6) - Ann Eaton
(7) - Ewen Smith
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

guest154

  • Guest
Ewen was told that Sheila was on the bed at some point. But not found on the bed. Seems a little misleading with the wording to say she was found on the bed - that makes it sound like the first discovery of her was on the bed.

Offline mike tesko

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51079
Well, Ewen was told by Dr Craig that Sheila was on the bed when he pronounced her as being dead, but DC Clarke told Ann Eaton that Sheila had been found on the bed, so rather than suggest I am being misleading seems like everybody in this case was misleading everybody else about where the body of Sheila was found...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

guest154

  • Guest
Well, Ewen was told by Dr Craig that Sheila was on the bed when he pronounced her as being dead, but DC Clarke told Ann Eaton that Sheila had been found on the bed, so rather than suggest I am being misleading seems like everybody in this case was misleading everybody else about where the body of Sheila was found...

So she was pronounced dead their by this particular docotr - but pronounced dead there doesn't mean she was first found there - right?