Author Topic: Julie's Witness Statement - A 'ring of truth' ?  (Read 5824 times)

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Offline Adam

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Julie's Witness Statement - A 'ring of truth' ?
« on: January 04, 2015, 09:38:AM »
Bamber's highly paid defence went through Julie's WS brick by brick. Looking for a brick they could pull out to bring everything crashing down.

However they could not find anything. Admitting to each other her WS had a 'ring of truth' to it.

Out of desperation, at trial the defence focused on the 1984 minor cheque book fraud. To try to show her as a dishonest person. The judge rightly poured scorn on this saying both Bamber & Julie had committed previous crime, but that does not mean either had lied at trial. He also said Julie had paid back the money ( Bamber had not). Bamber had also trusted Julie enough to tell her about the caravan break in, so may have trusted her enough to tell her about the massacre.

Julies WS is in different parts -


What happened after the massacre:

The eating out, hotels, trips around the country and abroad. There is no point in Julie lying here. A lot of other people joined them for some of these. Hotel bookings can be checked and relatives asked. So there was no reason to lie as everything can be easily checked.

What Bamber did does not highlight guilt or innocence anyway. Although Bamber's callous actions have come back to haunt him


Bamber's hatred and resentment :

This could be her word against Bamber's. But was not.

Bamber himself testified he had a very poor/non existent relationship with June.

He also called Sheila a 'nutter', 'looney', 'do lally' & 'pychotic depressive' on the massacre night. Saying they did not like each other and she had committed child abuse on the twins. Decades later saying he did not understand her illness.

There are also a lot of other people who said Bamber did not like his family or the raw deal he had. The facts back this up, Sheila living rent free in London, Bamber working long hours after reluctantly starting to work on the farm as a last resort.


The massacre plans :

This is again Julies word against Bamber's. However some of the things Julie said are backed up.

She said he planned to ride to WHF. This is backed up by the fact that the bike was brought over just before the massacre.

Julie also knew about the bible and kitchen fight. Which was not reported in the papers. And knew about the lockable from outside window.

The judge and appeal courts found it hard to understand Bamber's 3am call to Julie. Julie saying Bamber said 'he had not slept all night' and 'everything is going well'. When the police asked him about the call, he just said 'no comment'.

Julie also knew about the under insurance of WHF and the items inside.


Julies feelings :

Her feelings while things were evolving can only be changed by Julie herself, and cannot be disputed.

                                  ___________________

Overall Julie's statement does have a 'ring of truth' to it. She approached the police and was not forced to say anything.

Her reason to lie was also very weak. Bamber allegedly jilting her, after he said their relationship had been in decline/coming to a close for six months. Julie creating a false WS and lying under oath for this sole reason.

Do other people believe Julies WS had a 'ring of truth' to it ?

« Last Edit: January 04, 2015, 10:21:AM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Jan

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Re: Julie's Witness Statement - A 'ring of truth' ?
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2015, 10:17:AM »
Of course it would - because 

1) If the police persuaded her in her 32 interviews to help them get their man because they did not have enough evidence they would "persuade " her to take some conversations and embellish or change them slightly - for example the calls on the night - the change from the wording in her statements quite neatly takes an innocent call to a call about murder with just a few changes of words - hence the ring of truth.
2) One thing she quoted that a reason for killing the twins that Jeremy Allegedly said to her during the months before was something she actually overheard Jeremy say to Colin on the night of the party - Hence the ring of truth

3) things like the sleeping tablets - they existed - but did the conversation about the drugging of his family happen? Perhaps not - hence the ring of truth

4) Did he say sometimes he hated his family ? Perhaps Did he say he was going  to murder them all ? Perhaps not - hence the "ring of truth"

5) Did he ring her on the night and tell her about his day on the farm - yes - did he say "tonights the night" debatable - hence the "ring of truth "


You keep going on about a relationship in decline - well that to me does indicate that she was perhaps not telling the truth , I can see that anyone who had planned such a complicated and risky murder would ever consider telling a girlfriend that he was planning to dump . It does not make sense at all.

If the police did not have Julie - ALL they had was the silencer that could and should have been disregarded because of contamination . The rest was unsubstantiated hearsay and no forensics .

Offline Adam

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Re: Julie's Witness Statement - A 'ring of truth' ?
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2015, 10:40:AM »
If it took 32 interviews, then so be it.

It was a long WS for a 5x murder trial. She was the most important witness and a 21 woman. It has to be right which will take several interviews.

It is good it took so long. The police could study her and make sure she was not lying. Stan Jones had no doubt she told the truth. The WS was very believable. Even to the defence.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2015, 10:44:AM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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Re: Julie's Witness Statement - A 'ring of truth' ?
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2015, 10:42:AM »
The silencer was accepted at court without dispute from the defence. Appeals have also accepted this.

Jeremy focused on the silencer in the early 90's. He had to.

'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Mr. Gee

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Re: Julie's Witness Statement - A 'ring of truth' ?
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2015, 10:45:AM »
Adam, it doesn't matter if her statement according to some did have some sort of "ring of truth". What matters is "was it the truth?" The question must be asked could she back-up what she said about that which she claimed Jeremy said to her in private and let's face it, her statement consisted almost entirely of such things. Did she have any witnesses to these private conversations? And if we are truthful we must answer "no".

Mr. Gee

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Re: Julie's Witness Statement - A 'ring of truth' ?
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2015, 10:46:AM »
The silencer was accepted at court without dispute from the defence. Appeals have also accepted this.

Jeremy focused on the silencer in the early 90's. He had to.
Unlawfully so in my opinion.

Offline Adam

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Re: Julie's Witness Statement - A 'ring of truth' ?
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2015, 10:47:AM »
Re: The massacre plans.

Charles Marsden also said Jeremy had mentioned about burning down WHF. Which matches Julies WS.

Julie's WS also said Bamber had decided to massacre everyone and use Sheila as a scapegoat. This is exactly what happened.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Mr. Gee

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Re: Julie's Witness Statement - A 'ring of truth' ?
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2015, 10:48:AM »
Re: The massacre plans.

Charles Marsden also said Jeremy had mentioned about burning down WHF. Which matches Julies WS.

Julie's WS also said Bamber had decided to massacre everyone and use Sheila as a scapegoat. This is exactly what happened.
She said that "after" the event. Easy to make up.

Offline Jan

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Re: Julie's Witness Statement - A 'ring of truth' ?
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2015, 10:59:AM »
Re: The massacre plans.

Charles Marsden also said Jeremy had mentioned about burning down WHF. Which matches Julies WS.

Julie's WS also said Bamber had decided to massacre everyone and use Sheila as a scapegoat. This is exactly what happened.

As we have established the statement from Charles Marsden was not used and he was a friend of Julies and Liz . Therefore it was not considered to be good enough to use in court. Probably it was not used in court and they could have collaborated on evidence?

Of course Julies WS tied up with what happened - but is it the truth or not?

Offline Adam

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Re: Julie's Witness Statement - A 'ring of truth' ?
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2015, 11:19:AM »
As we have established the statement from Charles Marsden was not used and he was a friend of Julies and Liz . Therefore it was not considered to be good enough to use in court. Probably it was not used in court and they could have collaborated on evidence?

Of course Julies WS tied up with what happened - but is it the truth or not?

The defence thought it had a 'ring of truth'. And were not able to dislodge any bricks.

You think Charles Marsden lied to the police to help out Julie ?

Caroline asked Jeremy. Who said Marsden was his friend.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2015, 11:20:AM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Jan

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Re: Julie's Witness Statement - A 'ring of truth' ?
« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2015, 11:27:AM »
The defence thought it had a 'ring of truth'. And were not able to dislodge any bricks.

You think Charles Marsden lied to the police to help out Julie ?

Caroline asked Jeremy. Who said Marsden was his friend.


Do you understand police tactics from the 80s?

Caroline also said in an older post he was a friend of Julies and Liz as well. He went out with Jeremy to pick up girls on one occasion.

I don't know whether he lied it would only be a matter of opinion - but it appears unless you show me otherwise that the police/ prosecution  did not consider his testimony worthy of using in court. 

Offline Adam

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Re: Julie's Witness Statement - A 'ring of truth' ?
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2015, 11:46:AM »

Do you understand police tactics from the 80s?

Caroline also said in an older post he was a friend of Julies and Liz as well. He went out with Jeremy to pick up girls on one occasion.

I don't know whether he lied it would only be a matter of opinion - but it appears unless you show me otherwise that the police/ prosecution  did not consider his testimony worthy of using in court.

There is no evidence to say whether he did or did not testify.

Can't see a problem with him testifying this myself. It is not hard to do.

Anyway he told the police this. He was a friend of Jeremy's.

You say she was a friend of Julie's to. Are you saying Julie asked him to lie ?

I am too young to know about police tactics in the 80's.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Jan

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Re: Julie's Witness Statement - A 'ring of truth' ?
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2015, 11:51:AM »
There is no evidence to say whether he did or did not testify.

Can't see a problem with him testifying this myself. It is not hard to do.

Anyway he told the police this. He was a friend of Jeremy's.

You say she was a friend of Julie's to. Are you saying Julie asked him to lie ?

I am too young to know about police tactics in the 80's.


yea sure you are.
 
Lets check if he gave evidence or not before we give credence to his apparent revelation.

Offline lookout

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Re: Julie's Witness Statement - A 'ring of truth' ?
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2015, 12:08:PM »
Charles Marsden DIDN'T testify.

FM wasn't allowed to as he'd specifically stated that to testify,would be in favour of the defence ONLY.
A biased courtroom ? I'll say it was !

Offline Adam

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Re: Julie's Witness Statement - A 'ring of truth' ?
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2015, 12:10:PM »

yea sure you are.
 
Lets check if he gave evidence or not before we give credence to his apparent revelation.

To me there is enough credence that he told the police this. But you will say he had to testify as well.

The prosecution said they had an 'overwhelming' case without the silencer. So may not have thought him & others needed to testify.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.