Author Topic: Controlling 4/5 adults:  (Read 3845 times)

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Offline Adam

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Controlling 4/5 adults:
« on: December 13, 2014, 11:12:AM »
Jeremy's supporters often claim he couldn't have controlled the occupants at WHF. But wouldn't the same be true for Sheila ?

So who was in the best position to control the occupants and carry out a successful massacre ?

Jeremy

He would have been fully clothed. Probably in several layers, with gloves and a balaclava to protect himself.

He was competent with guns.

He also had the element of surprise as everyone would be asleep. The perfect time for an execution. June & the twins being shot in bed while Neville escaped seconds earlier. Sheila had to be out of bed, so was either carried, lead of retreated to the far corner of the main bedroom. So not really much to control if everything goes smoothly.

If things got violent, he was a fit young man who could control two 6 year olds and a two women. Even if they woke. Neville was more problematic and the judge said he 'put up a tremendous fight for life'. Luckily for a fit, fully clothed and hyped up Jeremy,  Neville was badly injured and eventually brutally beaten.

Sheila

She did not have any protective clothing. So more likely to get head, body or hand injuries.

She did not have the element of surprise. Neville being up and awake, and having the option of getting June for assistance or restraining Sheila himself.  He even had time to spend several minutes phoning Jeremy and the police.

She had limited/no experience with guns. Holding a not very powerful rifle. She would have to accurately hit a moving Neville & a moving June, Nicholas & Daniel if they woke from the noise.

She was very slight and would not stand a chance in a struggle with a fit Neville or Neville/June. She may also struggle with an injured Neville or Neville/June and end up with injuries or losing control of the rifle.

                          ______________________________


It is common knowledge that the crime was committed by either Sheila or Jeremy. It seems much more believable that Jeremy would be able to control the five occupants at WHF.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2014, 11:14:AM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Mr. Gee

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Re: Controlling 4/5 adults:
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2014, 03:44:PM »
Jeremy's supporters often claim he couldn't have controlled the occupants at WHF. But wouldn't the same be true for Sheila ?

So who was in the best position to control the occupants and carry out a successful massacre ?

Jeremy

He would have been fully clothed. Probably in several layers, with gloves and a balaclava to protect himself.

He was competent with guns.

He also had the element of surprise as everyone would be asleep. The perfect time for an execution. June & the twins being shot in bed while Neville escaped seconds earlier. Sheila had to be out of bed, so was either carried, lead of retreated to the far corner of the main bedroom. So not really much to control if everything goes smoothly.

If things got violent, he was a fit young man who could control two 6 year olds and a two women. Even if they woke. Neville was more problematic and the judge said he 'put up a tremendous fight for life'. Luckily for a fit, fully clothed and hyped up Jeremy,  Neville was badly injured and eventually brutally beaten.

Sheila

She did not have any protective clothing. So more likely to get head, body or hand injuries.

She did not have the element of surprise. Neville being up and awake, and having the option of getting June for assistance or restraining Sheila himself.  He even had time to spend several minutes phoning Jeremy and the police.

She had limited/no experience with guns. Holding a not very powerful rifle. She would have to accurately hit a moving Neville & a moving June, Nicholas & Daniel if they woke from the noise.

She was very slight and would not stand a chance in a struggle with a fit Neville or Neville/June. She may also struggle with an injured Neville or Neville/June and end up with injuries or losing control of the rifle.

                          ______________________________


It is common knowledge that the crime was committed by either Sheila or Jeremy. It seems much more believable that Jeremy would be able to control the five occupants at WHF.
In actual fact the evidence indicated that everyone except the twins were awake and not sleeping. Thus giving weight to Jeremy's testimony.

Offline Alias

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Re: Controlling 4/5 adults:
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2014, 03:47:PM »
Sheila was in the house. Jeremy had to break in, thus risking alerting everyone - barking dogs,  unusual sounds in the night.
Sheila had to control two adults, Jeremy three. There is a difference.

Offline Adam

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Re: Controlling 4/5 adults:
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2014, 04:59:PM »
In actual fact the evidence indicated that everyone except the twins were awake and not sleeping. Thus giving weight to Jeremy's testimony.

Well June was shot with her head on the pillow. Thread already created. So almost certainly asleep.

Neville moved his torso from the bed just before getting shot.

The twins stayed asleep.

Sheila had to be out of bed. But there no reason why she would wake. Thread already created.

Silencer & loose window/quiet entrance anyone ?
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Mr. Gee

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Re: Controlling 4/5 adults:
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2014, 05:14:PM »
Well June was shot with her head on the pillow. Thread already created. So almost certainly asleep.

Neville moved his torso from the bed just before getting shot.

The twins stayed asleep.

Sheila had to be out of bed. But there no reason why she would wake. Thread already created.

Silencer & loose window/quiet entrance anyone ?
The plain facts are as far as we know ALL the adults were awake and as far as Sheila is concerned she was out of bed and there are no signs of a struggle or blood in her room. Everyone except the twins were awake. They are the facts as we know them whatever interpretation you may have put on it. There are no signs that Ralph was shot with his head on the pillow. If he was taken by surprise like that then by default he would have been dead in bed and so would June as well.
In fact Sheila was found dead in her parents room. There is absolutely no proof whatsoever that she was carried there, only conjecture by you because that is the way you want it to look like.

Offline Adam

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Re: Controlling 4/5 adults:
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2014, 05:20:PM »
The plain facts are as far as we know ALL the adults were awake and as far as Sheila is concerned she was out of bed and there are no signs of a struggle or blood in her room. Everyone except the twins were awake. They are the facts as we know them whatever interpretation you may have put on it. There are no signs that Ralph was shot with his head on the pillow. If he was taken by surprise like that then by default he would have been dead in bed and so would June as well.
In fact Sheila was found dead in her parents room. There is absolutely no proof whatsoever that she was carried there, only conjecture by you because that is the way you want it to look like.

I never said Neville was shot with his head on the pillow. He moved just before that happened. Being shot next to June by their bed. Either escaping from or following Jeremy after he went downstairs to re load.

June was shot with her head on the pillow. So almost certainly asleep. Thread already created. She staggered  a few feet from the bed and died on the floor.

'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Mr. Gee

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Re: Controlling 4/5 adults:
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2014, 05:32:PM »
I never said Neville was shot with his head on the pillow. He moved just before that happened. Being shot next to June by their bed. Either escaping from or following Jeremy after he went downstairs to re load.

June was shot with her head on the pillow. So almost certainly asleep. Thread already created. She staggered  a few feet from the bed and died on the floor.
June died from a shot between her eyes. There is nothing that indicates that Nevill moved just before being shot. Or that he was chased downstairs by Jeremy. The facts tell us that all adults were awake when killed.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2014, 05:32:PM by Mr. Gee »

Offline Jane

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Re: Controlling 4/5 adults:
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2014, 05:37:PM »
June died from a shot between her eyes. There is nothing that indicates that Nevill moved just before being shot. Or that he was chased downstairs by Jeremy. The facts tell us that all adults were awake when killed.



Grahame, whilst we may differ on who shot him, clearly he had BEEN shot because his blood was found on the stair wall. He was either attempting, in a weakened state, to give chase OR was being urged downstairs by the shooter.

Offline lookout

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Re: Controlling 4/5 adults:
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2014, 06:43:PM »
 I could control 6 burly men if I was brandishing a rifle.
What a stupid thread !

Offline susan

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Re: Controlling 4/5 adults:
« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2014, 06:47:PM »
Hi lookout bet you could control 6 burly men without the aid of the rifle ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Offline lookout

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Re: Controlling 4/5 adults:
« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2014, 06:50:PM »
Hi lookout bet you could control 6 burly men without the aid of the rifle ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D






 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D,oh Susan,you are awful-----------but I like you.

Mr. Gee

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Re: Controlling 4/5 adults:
« Reply #11 on: December 13, 2014, 07:15:PM »


Grahame, whilst we may differ on who shot him, clearly he had BEEN shot because his blood was found on the stair wall. He was either attempting, in a weakened state, to give chase OR was being urged downstairs by the shooter.
He was not shot in the bed. That was the argument.

Mr. Gee

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Re: Controlling 4/5 adults:
« Reply #12 on: December 13, 2014, 07:15:PM »
Hi lookout bet you could control 6 burly men without the aid of the rifle ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
I would run.

Offline lookout

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Re: Controlling 4/5 adults:
« Reply #13 on: December 13, 2014, 07:25:PM »
I would run.





Aww,Mr G,would you ?  ???  I am disappointed in you. :(  :-[ I'm no Mussolini in knickers,you know  ;D

Offline Jane

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Re: Controlling 4/5 adults:
« Reply #14 on: December 13, 2014, 07:31:PM »




Aww,Mr G,would you ?  ???  I am disappointed in you. :(  :-[ I'm no Mussolini in knickers,you know  ;D



LOOKOUT!!!! Surely you're not telling Grahame that you're Mussolini WITHOUT knockers -ooops, sorry, knickers ;D ;D ;D