Author Topic: The trial. A brutal highlighting of guilt ?  (Read 5966 times)

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Offline Adam

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The trial. A brutal highlighting of guilt ?
« on: November 05, 2014, 11:45:AM »
The excellent defence team hired in 1985 immediately realised and privately agreed the case was going to be extremely difficult to win. This belied the outwardly confident and positive Jeremy.

Experts were hired who unfortunately failed to assist the defences efforts to show Sheila could have committed the massacre. A not so 'confident & positive' Jeremy could only say 'I don't know' when his defence team asked who else it could be if it wasn't Sheila.

Jeremy bravely took the stand at trial.  Realising that the evidence against him was substantial and there was nothing to lose. His charm and demeanour would make him look respectable and nothing like a brutal murderer. Whether this convinced the two female jurors to vote 'not guilty', as Stan Jones says, no one knows.

Unfortunately Jeremy was also unconvincing at trial.  Repeatedly being told to speak up by the judge. And admitting things that helped incriminate him further. Culminating in increasingly short/flippant answers and telling the prosecutors 'that is what you have to establish'. See the 'Jeremy's court testimony' thread.

The judges summing up of the evidence and testimony knocked the defence's case further.  But the judge can only summarize on the evidence presented at court.

Jeremy remained outwardly confident prior to the verdict. Complaining to his lawyers about the NOTW figure, he had negotiated upon his expected acquittal.

However, such was the weight of evidence, the relatives were confident of a guilty verdict being reached quickly. Robert Boutflour complaining the jury were taking hours, rather than minutes to return a guilty verdict. The jury were still very quick in reaching their verdict after such a long trial.

Stan Jones said Jeremy showed no emotion or surprise when 'guilty' was announced. Probably because Jeremy knew the truth and had sat through the compelling evidence against him. His gamble of taking the stand, having mixed results.

Do people agree the trial brutally highlighted Jeremy's guilt ?
« Last Edit: November 05, 2014, 12:20:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline lookout

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Re: The trial. A brutal highlighting of guilt ?
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2014, 12:15:PM »
 Defence were wrong in the Gilfoyle case and also Colin Stagg. They were VERY wrong,as were the prosecution.

Why ?? Because they were given either the wrong evidence,no evidence,misleading evidence.

A defence team is only as " excellent" as when the ORIGINAL information is submitted to them and when NOTHING is held back.   

Offline Jan

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Re: The trial. A brutal highlighting of guilt ?
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2014, 12:42:PM »
Defence were wrong in the Gilfoyle case and also Colin Stagg. They were VERY wrong,as were the prosecution.

Why ?? Because they were given either the wrong evidence,no evidence,misleading evidence.

A defence team is only as " excellent" as when the ORIGINAL information is submitted to them and when NOTHING is held back.

The colin stagg case is interesting - the police had lots of evidence at the time that hey just did not connect to the case. And basically looked like they had made up their minds , and even when he was released because the honey trap evidence was not accepted ,they said they were not looking for anyone else. And yet they had a profile of the murderer, he had been bought to their attention, had not turned up for DNA testing and there was a knife with blood on and his prints in a park .

In fact one person had worked on the rapes he Napper) commited and the other murders and Rachels case and still did not connect the three.

But one thing stood out to me when watching the programme on Stagg, and that was when the blood / forensic / Dna testing became much more relaible and detailed  - around the mid 90s . About the time when the items were destroyed by EP.

Mr. Gee

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Re: The trial. A brutal highlighting of guilt ?
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2014, 12:50:PM »
If the defence have no confidence in their client what hope is there for the client?

Offline Adam

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Re: The trial. A brutal highlighting of guilt ?
« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2014, 01:28:PM »
If the defence have no confidence in their client what hope is there for the client?

Yes what hope has Jeremy got when even his lawyers think he's guilty ?
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline nugnug

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Re: The trial. A brutal highlighting of guilt ?
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2014, 01:30:PM »
Defence were wrong in the Gilfoyle case and also Colin Stagg. They were VERY wrong,as were the prosecution.

Why ?? Because they were given either the wrong evidence,no evidence,misleading evidence.

A defence team is only as " excellent" as when the ORIGINAL information is submitted to them and when NOTHING is held back.

and even the best defense counsels make mistakes sometimes.

Offline JackiePreece

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Re: The trial. A brutal highlighting of guilt ?
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2014, 01:51:PM »
Yes what hope has Jeremy got when even his lawyers think he's guilty ?

As much hope as the Guildford Four or the Birmingham Six and every other MOJ victim that has had appeals turned down

One day everything about this case will be available to the public
"No hour of life is wasted that is spent in the saddle" Winston Churchill

Offline nugnug

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Re: The trial. A brutal highlighting of guilt ?
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2014, 01:57:PM »
and i never thought they would be relased untill they were.

Mr. Gee

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Re: The trial. A brutal highlighting of guilt ?
« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2014, 02:57:PM »
As much hope as the Guildford Four or the Birmingham Six and every other MOJ victim that has had appeals turned down

One day everything about this case will be available to the public
Indeed, all we know is what the CCRC or the appeal courts have allowed us to see.

Offline lookout

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Re: The trial. A brutal highlighting of guilt ?
« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2014, 02:59:PM »
The colin stagg case is interesting - the police had lots of evidence at the time that hey just did not connect to the case. And basically looked like they had made up their minds , and even when he was released because the honey trap evidence was not accepted ,they said they were not looking for anyone else. And yet they had a profile of the murderer, he had been bought to their attention, had not turned up for DNA testing and there was a knife with blood on and his prints in a park .

In fact one person had worked on the rapes he Napper) commited and the other murders and Rachels case and still did not connect the three.

But one thing stood out to me when watching the programme on Stagg, and that was when the blood / forensic / Dna testing became much more relaible and detailed  - around the mid 90s . About the time when the items were destroyed by EP.





Jan,I noticed that when I heard the advancement of DNA testing.Just at the right time,or wrong time whichever way you look at it. I too watched that programme,which I enjoyed,it was very interesting.

Offline Adam

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Re: The trial. A brutal highlighting of guilt ?
« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2014, 03:10:PM »
Indeed, all we know is what the CCRC or the appeal courts have allowed us to see.

The 2002 appeal judgement report is available to read online. In full.

The CCRC does not release their reports. But I am sure Jeremy's OS knows there reasons.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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Re: The trial. A brutal highlighting of guilt ?
« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2014, 03:13:PM »
and even the best defense counsels make mistakes sometimes.

Well they had nearly a year to get their case together pre trial.

What mistakes do you think they made ?
« Last Edit: November 05, 2014, 03:17:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline lookout

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Re: The trial. A brutal highlighting of guilt ?
« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2014, 03:49:PM »
 What's with all the sweeping statements ? This is a very complex case,though it shouldn't be.

The mistakes have been listed umpteen times,so take the trouble of looking !

Mr. Gee

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Re: The trial. A brutal highlighting of guilt ?
« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2014, 03:52:PM »
Well they had nearly a year to get their case together pre trial.

What mistakes do you think they made ?
They didn't believe him.

Offline lookout

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Re: The trial. A brutal highlighting of guilt ?
« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2014, 03:53:PM »
 Try reading the list I posted yesterday on the 1992 report thread.