Was Sheila Caffell set up by her brother Jeremy Bamber?

[paulg]

So was Luke Mitchell yet he murdered his 14 year old girlfriend. He also was on a cocktail of cannabis every day. 

It appears that the behaviour is induced by taking the drug thus post-murder examinations might not necessarily detect symptoms in someone who had been clean for a while.

Sheila also used cannabis, so I think this one's a bit of a non-starter really.

It affects people in different ways. I remember once when my son was quite young I got a call from his friend who said, "You'd better come down the prom, Dan has gone all strange". When I got there he was being treated by a paramedic. One of the paramedics used t9o be in the drug squad and recognised what had happened immediately. Apparently his friends had given him some canibis to smoke and he has a violent reaction to it. He was disorientated and extremely sick. He very quickly became frightened and upset. Others when they take it become lethargic and care free. It is also a well documented fact that all hard drug takers hadbegun their drug taking with canibis.

It is well known that continued heavy use of the drug can bring on all sorts of psychotic induced trauma but as you say, it affects different people in different ways.

Nobody want to tackle the issue of the magistrates adopted son cultivating cannabis??   :D

I'd be interest to know the size of crop he was cultivating? Was it just for close friends, or was he supplying others?

[andrea]

he wasnt abig time dealer paul, just dealt to mates.

[Kaldin]

An interesting bit of Mugford's evidence was that Jeremy commented at how good an actor he was after faking the sobs at the funerals.  Does anyone really think that that is the sort of thing one makes up?

Someone made mention earlier about the 30 odd statements that Mugford gave and commented that it took all these and still she didn't get the story straight.  You will find that it is not so much getting a story straight but getting a story in the first place.  The police weren't interested in coaching her, rather they were concerned as to how good a witness she would be on the stand.

I think we all now know that she was a brilliant witness and confounded the defence barrister constantly.

A lot of things that Julie Mugford claimed Jeremy said are so cliched though. All that stuff about being an actor, and it's tonight or never or tonights the night, etc - it all sounds so fake.

[paulg]

he wasnt abig time dealer paul, just dealt to mates.

Are you positive Andrea..its not a leading question, as it could well explain a few things to me.

If he was supplying and shooting his mouth of to people in london at this time, telling them about the farm etc

This was the time that the Yardies started to take over, and if he got mixed up with them, well it opens up a whole new ball park for me.

[andrea]

i agree kaldin, she could have come up with something better than that

[andrea]

he wasnt abig time dealer paul, just dealt to mates.

Are you positive Andrea..its not a leading question, as it could well explain a few things to me.

If he was supplying and shooting his mouth of to people in london at this time, telling them about the farm etc

This was the time that the Yardies started to take over, and if he got mixed up with them, well it opens up a whole new ball park for me.





hmmm interesting one that paul.


i did read he was no big time dealer, wouldnt the police have had him for supplying,its a serious charge?

[Roch]

Yeah, I think that too, she said Mcdonald did it and he was in court wasn't he? He's on one of the ITNsource clips.

Did McDonald have any previous connection with Julie Mugford?

Got no idea 

It just seems a strange story to make up? Why implicate him unless she really did know something?

Yes why implicate him? This makes me wonder if:

(1)
Bamber did make frustrated / threatening remarks to JM about his family (which may or may not have been later sexed up in collusion with Stan Jones etc).

(2)
In a guilty scenario, could Bamber have either had a grudge against McDonald, and thereby implicate him just to be a twat. Or, did Bamber have prior  knowledge that McDonald would have an aliby? The 2nd option leaves open the possibility for both mischief on the part of Bamber or actual collusion* with McDonald... which in itself would imply the need for McDonald to get something out of the equation.  There's no blood money trail to indicate any dodgey transactions, so maybe payment would be offered by way of inheritance which might explain the need to sell everything off quickly.
*what kind of collusion though?

(3)   
Julie Mugford had a grudge against McDonald?
 

[John]

Yeah, I think that too, she said Mcdonald did it and he was in court wasn't he? He's on one of the ITNsource clips.

Did McDonald have any previous connection with Julie Mugford?

Got no idea 

It just seems a strange story to make up? Why implicate him unless she really did know something?

Yes why implicate him? This makes me wonder if:

(1)
Bamber did make frustrated / threatening remarks to JM about his family (which may or may not have been later sexed up in collusion with Stan Jones etc).

(2)
In a guilty scenario, could Bamber have either had a grudge against McDonald, and thereby implicate him just to be a twat. Or, did Bamber have prior  knowledge that McDonald would have an aliby? The 2nd option leaves open the possibility for both mischief on the part of Bamber or actual collusion* with McDonald... which in itself would imply the need for McDonald to get something out of the equation.  There's no blood money trail to indicate any dodgey transactions, so maybe payment would be offered by way of inheritance which might explain the need to sell everything off quickly.
*what kind of collusion though?

(3)   
Julie Mugford had a grudge against McDonald?

I believe Bamber fed her that story purposely so as to make anything she could tell look silly.  Question is, was McDonald in on it?

The other possibility is that McDonald had originally agreed to do it but cried off leaving Jeremy to arrange another shooter??

Even by 1985 standards, £2000 seems a bit cheap???

[paulg]

he wasnt abig time dealer paul, just dealt to mates.

Are you positive Andrea..its not a leading question, as it could well explain a few things to me.

If he was supplying and shooting his mouth of to people in london at this time, telling them about the farm etc

This was the time that the Yardies started to take over, and if he got mixed up with them, well it opens up a whole new ball park for me.





hmmm interesting one that paul.


i did read he was no big time dealer, wouldnt the police have had him for supplying,its a serious charge?

The point is.

He may well of had just a few plants on the go, so the police wouldn't have been interested.

But, if Nevill and family were out the way, and they had Jeremy in their back pocket, the potential to grow at WHF is enormous.

Sure Jeremy would have gained out of it, but he would always have been in the yardies pay. They'd of been able to grow what they needed, and guess who'd have to take the conviction if they got caught growing? Its the perfect set up, landowner in it up to his eyeballs, unable to go to the police.

It explains the level of violence carried out.

It explains why he claims innocence.

And if true (cos it could be a load of bollocks    ) , it explains why he doesn't grass them up now, he'll be dead.

[andrea]

its one to ponder, but i think unlikely. i like the bollocks part though, made me giggle  :D

[Roch]

he wasnt abig time dealer paul, just dealt to mates.

Are you positive Andrea..its not a leading question, as it could well explain a few things to me.

If he was supplying and shooting his mouth of to people in london at this time, telling them about the farm etc

This was the time that the Yardies started to take over, and if he got mixed up with them, well it opens up a whole new ball park for me.





hmmm interesting one that paul.


i did read he was no big time dealer, wouldnt the police have had him for supplying,its a serious charge?

The point is.

He may well of had just a few plants on the go, so the police wouldn't have been interested.

But, if Nevill and family were out the way, and they had Jeremy in their back pocket, the potential to grow at WHF is enormous.

Sure Jeremy would have gained out of it, but he would always have been in the yardies pay. They'd of been able to grow what they needed, and guess who'd have to take the conviction if they got caught growing? Its the perfect set up, landowner in it up to his eyeballs, unable to go to the police.

It explains the level of violence carried out.

It explains why he claims innocence.

And if true (cos it could be a load of bollocks    ) , it explains why he doesn't grass them up now, he'll be dead.

Yardie's weapon of choice was Uzi 9mm 

[paulg]

Not very quiet, would have woke a few people.

As i said Dolly, probably a load of rubbish.

[andrea]

Not very quiet, would have woke a few people.

As i said Dolly, probably a load of rubbish.

no paul, you said bollocks 

[Roch]

Not very quiet, would have woke a few people.

As i said Dolly, probably a load of rubbish.

There's a lot of theories out there paul.  It's like a labrynth.  Horseydave's posts, from the limited ones I actually saw, were very interesting.  Landing lights and concrete stumps etc.

[andrea]

colin caffell did mentio in his book about the police finding strategically placed torches within the grounds of WHF, and colin didnt think it was the children that had been playing with them as neville would never have allowed it