Author Topic: Jeremy's court testimony:  (Read 25036 times)

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Offline Jan

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Re: Jeremy's court testimony:
« Reply #360 on: October 11, 2014, 09:48:PM »
I am not biased to his guilt.  I rationally follow th eevidence hwer eit leads I have no bias.

You in contrast refuse to follow the evidence and instead reject all evidence estbalishing his guilt for the simply reason you don't want to believe he is guilty not because there is anything to refute it.  You also spin the evidence for the same purpose.

get lost - I don't spin evidence . I just don't take everything at face value . you rude little man.

You want to believe  all that EP did - go ahead
you want to believe everything JM said - go ahead
you want to think its right that the moderator was handled by relatives - put in a boot - put in a wardrobe - handled by the police in a cardboard tube and then a bit of tissue and is the main thing that convicted him - then go ahead .

but don't get personal with the rest of us  . ooops forgot you cant help it ;D ;D ;D ;D


Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: Jeremy's court testimony:
« Reply #361 on: October 12, 2014, 12:36:AM »
get lost - I don't spin evidence . I just don't take everything at face value . you rude little man.

You want to believe  all that EP did - go ahead
you want to believe everything JM said - go ahead
you want to think its right that the moderator was handled by relatives - put in a boot - put in a wardrobe - handled by the police in a cardboard tube and then a bit of tissue and is the main thing that convicted him - then go ahead .

but don't get personal with the rest of us  . ooops forgot you cant help it ;D ;D ;D ;D

You do spin evidence and refuse to think rationally because you don't want to face Jeremy is guilty.

I will pose the same quesitons to you I do anytime you post the moronic claim that because relativels found the moderator that means the blood inside was planted.

The moderator was put inside a paper towel tube then inside blankets. 

A trash bin contained blood stained panties was placed in the car either the same day or on a different day Ann Eaton was not sure whether she took the garbage bin the same day or not.

How would placing them in the car the same time enable blood stains to jump from the panties inside the garbage bin to the moderator and not only to to jump to it but to coat the first 8 baffles with blood and also deposit a flake of blood in between the first and second baffles?

Your answer is always the same you can't figure out how such could happen which means your claim that such could someohow compromise the blood that was found is baseless.  So when you make the claim you know it is frivolous but make it just to go through the motions of saying we should disbeleive the evidence just because you don't like the results and use a frovious reaosn to try to justify ignoring it.

Far from being a little man I am a rational one and that stands in the way of your biased BS.




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Offline Roch

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Re: Jeremy's court testimony:
« Reply #362 on: October 12, 2014, 12:45:AM »
You do spin evidence and refuse to think rationally because you don't want to face Jeremy is guilty.

I will pose the same quesitons to you I do anytime you post the moronic claim that because relativels found the moderator that means the blood inside was planted.

The moderator was put inside a paper towel tube then inside blankets. 

A trash bin contained blood stained panties was placed in the car either the same day or on a different day Ann Eaton was not sure whether she took the garbage bin the same day or not.

How would placing them in the car the same time enable blood stains to jump from the panties inside the garbage bin to the moderator and not only to to jump to it but to coat the first 8 baffles with blood and also deposit a flake of blood in between the first and second baffles?

Your answer is always the same you can't figure out how such could happen which means your claim that such could someohow compromise the blood that was found is baseless.  So when you make the claim you know it is frivolous but make it just to go through the motions of saying we should disbeleive the evidence just because you don't like the results and use a frovious reaosn to try to justify ignoring it.

Far from being a little man I am a rational one and that stands in the way of your biased BS.

On the issue of deliberate contamination, my money would be on a SOC officer having carried out the process.  Though I think you'd get better odds for a relative.

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: Jeremy's court testimony:
« Reply #363 on: October 12, 2014, 01:04:AM »
On the issue of deliberate contamination, my money would be on a SOC officer having carried out the process.  Though I think you'd get better odds for a relative.

Do you mean lab person?

Because the lab personnel would be the only ones with the knowledge and capability.

Neither the police nor the family knew Sheila's fatal wound was a contact wound and thus drawback would occur.  Nor did either know about drawback.  Nor would they have access to Sheila's blood and would not know what her blood characteristics were.

Nor would they know how to mimick drawback since they didn't even know what it was.  If they just used a dropper or poured it in with a vial the blood would not have been deposited on the first 8 baffles.  It would have hit fewer baffles and pouring it would have gotten it deeper in the moderator- getting it in deeper would have been an indication it was poured and planted.

The police were specifically told the blood was human in 8/14/85 and yet instead of making the lab test for blood type they wasting weeks fignerprinting it ad superglue fuming it.  If they planted Sheila's blood they would have made the lab test it immediately to prove it was Sheila's blood.   

There was clearly blood on and in it before it was sent to the lab so clearly it was used in some capacity in the murders.  The lab can't have planted the blood the family and police saw.

So basically you need:

1) family or police to have planted some blood just to make it look likr he moderator was used hoping Jeremy's fingerprints would be found on it. 
2) the lab to have planted more blood to make it look like drawback and to make sure it was Sheila's blood they used so they could say it was from drawback
3) they removed all blood from the rifle (because blood would have been in the rifle if the moderator was not attached during the fatal shot) and lied and claimed no blood was found. 
4) the lab waited until police had their fingerprint fun and waited many weeks after planting the blood to finally type test it

Not only is there no evidence any of this happened it is not reaosnably likely to have occurred.

   
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Offline Roch

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Re: Jeremy's court testimony:
« Reply #364 on: October 12, 2014, 01:20:AM »
Do you mean lab person?

Because the lab personnel would be the only ones with the knowledge and capability.

Neither the police nor the family knew Sheila's fatal wound was a contact wound and thus drawback would occur.  Nor did either know about drawback.  Nor would they have access to Sheila's blood and would not know what her blood characteristics were.

Nor would they know how to mimick drawback since they didn't even know what it was.  If they just used a dropper or poured it in with a vial the blood would not have been deposited on the first 8 baffles.  It would have hit fewer baffles and pouring it would have gotten it deeper in the moderator- getting it in deeper would have been an indication it was poured and planted.

The police were specifically told the blood was human in 8/14/85 and yet instead of making the lab test for blood type they wasting weeks fignerprinting it ad superglue fuming it.  If they planted Sheila's blood they would have made the lab test it immediately to prove it was Sheila's blood.   

There was clearly blood on and in it before it was sent to the lab so clearly it was used in some capacity in the murders.  The lab can't have planted the blood the family and police saw.

So basically you need:

1) family or police to have planted some blood just to make it look likr he moderator was used hoping Jeremy's fingerprints would be found on it. 
2) the lab to have planted more blood to make it look like drawback and to make sure it was Sheila's blood they used so they could say it was from drawback
3) they removed all blood from the rifle (because blood would have been in the rifle if the moderator was not attached during the fatal shot) and lied and claimed no blood was found. 
4) the lab waited until police had their fingerprint fun and waited many weeks after planting the blood to finally type test it

Not only is there no evidence any of this happened it is not reaosnably likely to have occurred.

Hi Scip,

Have you ever seen this thread?  http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,2169.0.html  The thing is with this silencer (or these silencers) is that the custody trail and provenance is not exactly clear cut.

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: Jeremy's court testimony:
« Reply #365 on: October 12, 2014, 02:26:AM »
Hi Scip,

Have you ever seen this thread?  http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,2169.0.html  The thing is with this silencer (or these silencers) is that the custody trail and provenance is not exactly clear cut.

Mike's claims about a moderator being collected in the day of the murders and then another days later is wrong.  he has nothign at all to estbalish it and in out most recent debate he invented a new designation SJ/1 which was never a designation just something Cook planned to use as a designation for the moderator turned over by the family. Since it was never actually used Mike got the bright idea to say it was and made up SJ/1 being collected the day of the murders.

There was only 1 moderator collected from WHF, it was found by Boutflour, taken home by Ann and Peter Eaton and then handed over to police by Eaton.

The family found it the day after the keys were turned over the them.  The police had control of the site so no one could get in.  The keys were turned over in the evening and then the next day they went through the place and found it.  Upon finding it they took control of it till being given to police.

So the custody was established.

If innocent contamination could account for the evidence then it would be open to attack because one could claim the blood got there prior to the murders or after as a reuslt of innocent contamination.

If the blood could have been planted by lay people who had access to Sheila's blood then again it would be open so some sort of attack.

The problem is as I described.  The family didn't have access to her blood, didn't have a way to know what her blood type was, had no way to know she died from a contact wound, had no idea about drawback and still would have no way to get the blood out of the barrel of the murder weapon even if they did know all about drawback and that she died from a contact shot.

The family at best would think that planting some sort of blood would make police think it was used and hope and pray Jeremy's prints were on it. So they would just plant blood from one of them in the very tip.

That still would not account for the blood found though. 

You would still need the lab to plant Sheila's blood and remove it from the rifle muzzle.  Because the defense actually tested the moderator and found microscopic traces on the first 8 baffles that means the lab couldn't have simply lied and pretended they had found her blood it means they actually planted her blood then removed the visible blood leaving miscroscopic drops to be found by the defense.

There is simply no way the blood could have being planted without the lab having done it and either other blood having been planted by the family or alternatively the moderator actually being used to kill June and Nevill, some of their blood gettig inside and then the lab deciding to add some of Sheila's as well. Plus the lab had to remove the blood from the rifle.

In situations like this you need evidence to try arguing planting occurred such evidence are things like:

1)  Evidence blood was missing from a sample
2) evidence the blood had a preservative agent (which means it came from a blood sample because preservatives are not natural and are added after blood is taken)
3) the distribution of blood is not consistent with drawback but rather being manully insterted
4) the family or police knew about drawback and how to mimick it, knew she suffered a contact wound and had access to her blood (this still would fail to account for the lack of blood in the rifle though so you would have to suggest someone with access knew about th eblood in the rifle and removed it)

Without any of the above you have no basis to allege to a court the evidence was planted

Only the lab would have the know how to plant the evidence and remove the evidence from the rifle but that alone doesn't permit alleging they did it either.  You need more than to alleged it anyway the defense needs to establish it is reasonably likely that the blood was planted.  That would help establish reasonable doubt with respect to this particular piece of evidence.

If the blood could have been easily planted or could have accidentally gotten inside it is a far different situation.  But that is not the case and that makes things very hard for the defense.





Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline Roch

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Re: Jeremy's court testimony:
« Reply #366 on: October 12, 2014, 03:57:AM »
Mike's claims about a moderator being collected in the day of the murders and then another days later is wrong.  he has nothign at all to estbalish it and in out most recent debate he invented a new designation SJ/1 which was never a designation just something Cook planned to use as a designation for the moderator turned over by the family. Since it was never actually used Mike got the bright idea to say it was and made up SJ/1 being collected the day of the murders.

There was only 1 moderator collected from WHF, it was found by Boutflour, taken home by Ann and Peter Eaton and then handed over to police by Eaton.

The family found it the day after the keys were turned over the them.  The police had control of the site so no one could get in.  The keys were turned over in the evening and then the next day they went through the place and found it.  Upon finding it they took control of it till being given to police.

So the custody was established.

If innocent contamination could account for the evidence then it would be open to attack because one could claim the blood got there prior to the murders or after as a reuslt of innocent contamination.

If the blood could have been planted by lay people who had access to Sheila's blood then again it would be open so some sort of attack.

The problem is as I described.  The family didn't have access to her blood, didn't have a way to know what her blood type was, had no way to know she died from a contact wound, had no idea about drawback and still would have no way to get the blood out of the barrel of the murder weapon even if they did know all about drawback and that she died from a contact shot.

The family at best would think that planting some sort of blood would make police think it was used and hope and pray Jeremy's prints were on it. So they would just plant blood from one of them in the very tip.

That still would not account for the blood found though. 

You would still need the lab to plant Sheila's blood and remove it from the rifle muzzle.  Because the defense actually tested the moderator and found microscopic traces on the first 8 baffles that means the lab couldn't have simply lied and pretended they had found her blood it means they actually planted her blood then removed the visible blood leaving miscroscopic drops to be found by the defense.

There is simply no way the blood could have being planted without the lab having done it and either other blood having been planted by the family or alternatively the moderator actually being used to kill June and Nevill, some of their blood gettig inside and then the lab deciding to add some of Sheila's as well. Plus the lab had to remove the blood from the rifle.

In situations like this you need evidence to try arguing planting occurred such evidence are things like:

1)  Evidence blood was missing from a sample
2) evidence the blood had a preservative agent (which means it came from a blood sample because preservatives are not natural and are added after blood is taken)
3) the distribution of blood is not consistent with drawback but rather being manully insterted
4) the family or police knew about drawback and how to mimick it, knew she suffered a contact wound and had access to her blood (this still would fail to account for the lack of blood in the rifle though so you would have to suggest someone with access knew about th eblood in the rifle and removed it)

Without any of the above you have no basis to allege to a court the evidence was planted

Only the lab would have the know how to plant the evidence and remove the evidence from the rifle but that alone doesn't permit alleging they did it either.  You need more than to alleged it anyway the defense needs to establish it is reasonably likely that the blood was planted.  That would help establish reasonable doubt with respect to this particular piece of evidence.

If the blood could have been easily planted or could have accidentally gotten inside it is a far different situation.  But that is not the case and that makes things very hard for the defense.

Thanks for your opinions and advice but I'm not the defence.  Even the police themselves issued (then retracted) statements to the press about a silencer having been found on the day of the murders.  I'd be amazed if you were proved right about there having only been one silencer as per found by the relatives, in the manner in which they claim etc.  Not just amazed - literally stunned.  I've not heard about the defence finding microscopic traces of her blood though.  That is interesting if true.

Your lab theory is interesting.

Offline Roch

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Re: Jeremy's court testimony:
« Reply #367 on: October 12, 2014, 04:19:AM »
One other thing that I would add Scip is that Bamber has consistently attacked the silencer evidence.  Now if he was involved in the killings and the silencer is a genuine exhibit, used by him during the killings, resulting in 'drawback' or 'back-spatter', it doesn't really make sense to me for him to attack the exhibit in the manner in which he has or the extent to which he has.   Now I could envisage him having had involvement and attacking the silencer evidence if he knew it was bogus because he knew it wasn't used. 

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: Jeremy's court testimony:
« Reply #368 on: October 12, 2014, 05:04:AM »
Thanks for your opinions and advice but I'm not the defence.  Even the police themselves issued (then retracted) statements to the press about a silencer having been found on the day of the murders.  I'd be amazed if you were proved right about there having only been one silencer as per found by the relatives, in the manner in which they claim etc.  Not just amazed - literally stunned.  I've not heard about the defence finding microscopic traces of her blood though.  That is interesting if true.

Your lab theory is interesting.

Why would there be 2 moderators at WHF?  Worse yet why would they need to replace one with another? 

If they wanted to plant evidence they would have no need to plant it in 2 different moderators.

There are no records at all of a second moderator only the change in designation to DB and then DRB.  The same changes took place for the telescopic sights which changed to DB/2 and DRB/2. 

The first moderator turned in to the lab was turned in on the 8/13/85 so if they had actually collected a moderator on 8/7/85 what happened to it?  Why would they fail to include it on the sheets where they detialed the items they took from the house on 8/7/85?  Why do the police insist no moderator was found?  If they wanted to doctor one they would have doctored it but again lacked motive and the skill and knowledge to doctor it to the point where it would have reflected the blood ultimately removed.

There are documents on this website from DR. Lincoln which discuss his findings when he tested the moderator.  The 2002 Appeal decision also discusses his findings.  I will quote from the decision:

"In dealing with this evidence, the defence were limited by the evidence available from their own expert. They called no such evidence at trial but the material that they had obtained pre-trial has been disclosed in the course of this appeal. The defence had instructed Dr Patrick Lincoln, whose expertise in such matters was well known. On 29 April 1986, he visited the forensic science laboratory and examined the relevant material. He carried out tests on all seventeen baffles. The first eight plates all gave weak or very weak positive reactions for blood. There was no blood clearly visible to the naked eye and Dr Lincoln concluded that "such findings could be consistent with an item having been previously swabbed by a forensic scientist to remove blood stains for testing". The other nine plates "did not produce any evidence for the presence of blood". He agreed with Mr Hayward's conclusion that the combination of blood groups revealed in his testing of the inside of the moderator could have come solely from Sheila Caffell but did not come from any one of the other individuals."

So on August 13, 1985 the lab documented the blood on the moderator and tested it to determine if it was human.  It was determined to be human and the police were notified of this August 14, 1985.  They were also notified that paint was found on it. 

They went to WHF the evening of the 14th to see if they could figure out where the paint came form and that is when they took the paint samples from the mantle.

Cook spent the rest of August trying to find prints on it.  The fact there was human blood in it suggested it was used in the murders because no other humans were know to be shot with the gun it went to.  Since it was in the closet put away that means the killer removed it after use.  So the hope was the killer's prints would be found.  I was superglue fimed even to try to detect latent prints. After all those efforts failed they finally turned it over to the lab to have the blood type tested.

In addition to the blood that had been previously been tested to determine whether it was human blood or not, the lab found a flake of blood in between baffles 1 and 2 and blood that was dried onto each of the first 5-7 baffles.  The lab personnel never wrote down which baffles the blood ceased at.  By the time they testified they could not remember the exact amount.  They said at least 5 and one thought it extended to the 6th baffle another the 7th.  The lab scraped all the visible blood from the baffles and also removed the flake.  There was no visible blood left in the moderator.

The tested the flake and some of the blood that was removed from the baffles. What happened to the blood they never tested? Not enough information has been publicly released to know.  The flake of blood as well as the blood from the baffles that they tested registered as group A blood.  The flake also had an enzyme AK1.  June and Sheila both had group A blood but while Sheila had AK1 June had AK2-1.  AK2-1 is much hardier than AK1 so if AK1 survived so should AK2-1 have survived.  Since no AK2-1 was present that suggests is was only Sheila's blood.

Lincoln found miscropic traces on the 1st 8 baffles.  That means either the lab personnel were off by 1 when they tried to remember how far the blood extended or only minute amounts of blood traveled that deep. Lincoln tested the blood and it likewise was group A blood.

Lincoln agreed with the prosecution expert that it could only be Sheila's blood and that there was not a chance of it being blood for more than one person. That resulted in the defense not using him.  The prosecution expert admitting it was a remote possiiblity that the blood was June and Nevill's was better than his own expert was willing to say he had written off the chance entirely. 

So there was visible blood removed by the prosecution from the first 7 and possibly the first 8 baffles, microscopic blood removed from the first 8 baffles by the defense, a flake of blood trapped between baffles 1 and 2 and a small amout of blood near the opening (which they removed to test whether it was human) plus some blood on the exterior (which was not typed just tested whether it was human). 

Drawback is a stream of blood.  It sprays inside to a certain point than stops.  It won't spray more than several inches inside.  Because it is a spray it will project drops onto each successive baffle until it loses momentum.  It is a jet spray so is able to get to baffles beyond just the first couple.  Nothing but a spray will account for reaching the first 8 baffles.  If you pour it then it will fall inside all the way down the middle to the back or until hitting a baffle and and then splash.
   
In order for the blood that was found inside to have been planted it would require using a device to spray blood inside.  I don't know if an atomizer would work or not it might not be able to project it far enough inside. A spray bottle might not either.  You would need to test to see what kin dof distribution it would cause inside to use them.  Basically it would require testing spray devices until you find one that could deposit blood on the first 8 baffles.

If you can find something that can accomplish it then you have find proof someone
1) knew Sheila died from a contact shot
2) knew all about drawback and the implications of the contact shot resulting in drawback
3) knew how to mimick drawback using the device mentioned and had access to it
4) had access to Sheila's blood or group A blood with AK1 and knew this is what Sheilz had,
5) had motive to plant the blood
6) had opportunity to plant the blood
7) something to suggest the person actually did plant it
8) the person removed the blood from the muzzle of the weapon or was able to get someone else to remove it

Jeremy's trial team was not stupid the above is a tall order and that is why neither his trial lawyers nor even his appellate lawyers were able to assert the blood was planted.

I don't see any way at all that it would be possible to doctor the evidence without the lab orchestrating it and doing most of the work.

For the lab to have planted it on 8/13/85 though it quite far fetched. Yet that is the day it arrived and they detected human blood.  While Mike and other like to suggest that in September police doctored the moderator and told the fmaily to lie and pretend it had blood when they found it, clearly it did have blood when turned over because there is documentary evidence proving the police were notified on 8/14/85 of the findings of human blood and paint.

You basically had to have someone plant blood just to try to get someone to think it was used and then someone else to do an adequate planting job in Septmeber and also removing the blood form the rifle and concealing it.  That is th eonly way a planting coudl have been acocmplished.  Ther eis of course no eivdence to suggest that happened.

 
     
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Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: Jeremy's court testimony:
« Reply #369 on: October 12, 2014, 05:24:AM »
One other thing that I would add Scip is that Bamber has consistently attacked the silencer evidence.  Now if he was involved in the killings and the silencer is a genuine exhibit, used by him during the killings, resulting in 'drawback' or 'back-spatter', it doesn't really make sense to me for him to attack the exhibit in the manner in which he has or the extent to which he has.   Now I could envisage him having had involvement and attacking the silencer evidence if he knew it was bogus because he knew it wasn't used.

1) Bamber hasn't attacked it he lacked the skill to know anything about the issues involved.  His defense team attacked it.

2) His defense team attacked it out of necessity.  If Sheila can't have killed herself it is game over for Jeremy.

How did they attacked it though?

They attacked it by arguing it was June and Nevill's blood mixed together.  So they did not deny it was used but rather said it was used on June and Nevill then removed and put away before Sheila killed herself.  They had no evidence to say it was June and Nevill's as opposed to Sheila's though.  Their own expert denied such so wasn't called.  They tried to get the prosecution expert to say such was reasonably likely but all they could get him to say was it was a remote possiiblity that he didn't think to be the case.

The defense argument still sucks.  Is it credible Sheila would be in a rage, find the gun and then decide to go to the closet to get the moderator, attach it, use it then remove it to put it away so no one would know it was used before killing herself?  This is not very plausible.  June and Nevill's blood inside the moderator still implicates Jeremy.  He is the one who would remove it before shooting Sheila to kill her without it and then hide it to conceal it had been used.  She would not do so.  She would not have been worried about trying to make the gun more quiet either so would not have gone to seek it out.  Worst of all though if this were the case and the moderator wer enot used SHeial's blood would have been int he rifle.  The defense never addressed that problem. 

It was this sucky argument though or putting up no argument on this front and thus admitting she could not have killed herself, that someone killed her then left the scene and thus be an admission Jeremy was guilty.  That is why the defense was necessity.

As bad as this defense is about her using the moderator then putting it away I think you agree it is better than admitting she could not have killed herself.

The 2002 DNA appeal arguments were just more of this same argument.  They claimed June's DNA was found and somone unknown male and suggested that it means it was June and Nevill's blood inside.

The 2009 CCRC submissions were thoroughly rejected and Jeremy's team thus won't release the arguments or how they were shot shown.  So we don't know what was argued exactly in those proceedings.

 
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Offline Reader

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Re: Jeremy's court testimony:
« Reply #370 on: October 12, 2014, 07:42:AM »
It makes absolutely NO difference to Jeremy's status if Scipio uses terms like "get moving" as opposed to, perhaps, "leave now" NOR does the argument over what may amount to a differential driving speed of 5 miles per hour.
There's a lot of difference, and scipio_usmc frequently embellishes the evidence like that. As far as we know, Pc West didn't say "get moving" or "leave now" or any other such phrase. These phrases are made up to create contrast with Jeremy's alleged slow driving, but there's no evidence that Jeremy drove slowly. If Jeremy's speed wasn't significant, why were the police so keen on trying to show it was less than the 30 mph estimate in their statements?

Offline lookout

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Re: Jeremy's court testimony:
« Reply #371 on: October 12, 2014, 07:50:AM »
 For the 100th time,Jeremy was asked not to get to WHF before them !! Hence the slower drive.

Offline susan

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Re: Jeremy's court testimony:
« Reply #372 on: October 12, 2014, 08:02:AM »
Morning Roch  IMO Jeremy Bamber attacks the silencer evidence because he knows he did not use it when he murdered his family. :(

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: Jeremy's court testimony:
« Reply #373 on: October 12, 2014, 08:06:AM »
There's a lot of difference, and scipio_usmc frequently embellishes the evidence like that. As far as we know, Pc West didn't say "get moving" or "leave now" or any other such phrase. These phrases are made up to create contrast with Jeremy's alleged slow driving, but there's no evidence that Jeremy drove slowly. If Jeremy's speed wasn't significant, why were the police so keen on trying to show it was less than the 30 mph estimate in their statements?

You keep outright lying from start to finish about eveyr issue related to the police being dispatched, their arrival and coversations with Jeremy because the evidence against him is so overwhelming.  You defend him by distorting his clais, the police and even making up a call from Nevill.

Eachtime you accuse me of lying you get egg on your face like your pathetic claim I made up police saying Jeremy told them Sheila fired all wepaons in the house and he taught her how to shoot. 

Next you said they were all liars and Saxby was the onl trustworthy one and he didn't say such though he did.

Your lies never end.

As for Jeremy's speed is significant to demonstrate his lack of urgency as well as his desire to make sure police beat him there to support his alibi.

His speed is significant to you because it crushes the lies you keep trying to get peopel to believe about Jeremy calling police at 3:36 ending at 3:41 and Jeremy being able to be passed by police at 3:47.  His slow speed negates such he would need to average 36PH for your claims to be even remotely possible but there is a mountain of evidence proving the claim Nevill called police to be bunk anyway so it is all for nothing.
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: Jeremy's court testimony:
« Reply #374 on: October 12, 2014, 08:11:AM »
For the 100th time,Jeremy was asked not to get to WHF before them !! Hence the slower drive.

I challenged you to produce a source.  You couldn't though you told me to research myself.  I told you I already did research it and that was how I knew you were wrong. I referred you to something I already posted previously proving you were wrong. Here is is a gain do you know how to read English?



"I told him a unit from Witham was attending and asked him to wait there [for police to arrive]".

West told Jeremy to drive there and wait for police. He didn't tell Jeremy to drive slow to make sure police arrive first.

Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry