Jeremy's court testimony:

[Adam]

I would still say they are extracts of sentences out of context - I would be interested to see more of his testimony though. And the questions he was asked in court by prosecution and defence.

You have repeatedly said you want to see the court testimony. So here are extracts from it. From a book. Not all of it. But the main points.

You can work out what the questions were from what he says.

Even Jeremy's testimony is damning. Along with his WS. Thread already created.

[Jan]

Mat said you were not showing it was damning?


So what is damning ? And I still point out taking sentences out of context is pretty pointless.

He may have said he did not get on with June - but if he said "I did not get on with her . But that was in the past , in the last 18 months it had improved "- then that is out of context .

So you tell me what is so damning?

[Reader]

I doubt that he said he rang Julie at 3am. In 1986, he probably thought that Nevill called him at 3:10am, so he would have said he rang Julie later, possibly 3:20am or the 3:25am time he gave in his statement.

His website was still using that 3:10am time until around 2003 (very approximately). After March 2004, both telephone logs were available for comparison, and so the emphasis changed completely, but the latest article still contains errors.

[Adam]

Mat said you were not showing it was damning?


So what is damning ? And I still point out taking sentences out of context is pretty pointless.

He may have said he did not get on with June - but if he said "I did not get on with her . But that was in the past , in the last 18 months it had improved "- then that is out of context .

So you tell me what is so damning?

He agreed with MM testimony. I will find it before going out for some food. Nearly all the points are damning and you know it.

[Adam]

Chapter 31, page 220 of Wilkes's book - 

Julies mother Mary Mugford followed her daughter into the witness box. 

She said 'Jeremy hated his mother & blamed her for turning Sheila mad. And he resented her for loving the twins more than him. Jeremy disliked his mother intensely & I felt he was more affectionate to me'. 

'He used to call me mummy all the time. He offerred me his mothers small car which had been bought that Christmas. This was just after the shooting. A list had been drawn up and he was going to keep no momentoes, which I thought very strange. He wanted to sell everthing'. 

'Jeremy resented his mother because she sent him away to boarding school. He never forgave her for that. 

'Apparently she was a religious maniac'. 

'A few months before the murders Jeremy had told me her mother was thinking of changing her will in favour of her grandsons, on whom she doted'. 

'Jeremy never spoke to his mother & she never showed any affection towards him'. 

'He often spoke of this'.  

[scipio_usmc]

I doubt that he said he rang Julie at 3am. In 1986, he probably thought that Nevill called him at 3:10am, so he would have said he rang Julie later, possibly 3:20am or the 3:25am time he gave in his statement.

His website was still using that 3:10am time until around 2003 (very approximately). After March 2004, both telephone logs were available for comparison, and so the emphasis changed completely, but the latest article still contains errors.

The change was in order to make up the lie that Nevill phoned police too.  That is what required adjusting the timetable Jeremy gave up to tha tpoint.

You well know this though after all your horsecrap regarding trying to pretend Nevill called police thoughthe evidence proves otherwise and you have nothing at all to suggest such a call happened.

[Jan]

Chapter 31, page 220 of Wilkes's book -

Julies mother Mary Mugford followed her daughter into the witness box.

She said 'Jeremy hated his mother & blamed her for turning Sheila mad. And he resented her for loving the twins more than him. Jeremy disliked his mother intensely & I felt he was more affectionate to me'.

'He used to call me mummy all the time. He offerred me his mothers small car which had been bought that Christmas. This was just after the shooting. A list had been drawn up and he was going to keep no momentoes, which I thought very strange. He wanted to sell everthing'.

'Jeremy resented his mother because she sent him away to boarding school. He never forgave her for that.

'Apparently she was a religious maniac'.

'A few months before the murders Jeremy had told me her mother was thinking of changing her will in favour of her grandsons, on whom she doted'.

'Jeremy never spoke to his mother & she never showed any affection towards him'.

'He often spoke of this'. 

I m sorry but I get the feeling she was backing up Julies "story" because otherwise Julie would have been in real trouble. I have a feeling bits of it are true and bits are embellished. She did not put her daughter off that awful photoshoot and article so I am not quite sure of her moral standards I am afraid.

And I am not denying there may have been some family discord - show me a family where there is not. But he said it was in the past. June wrote that letter saying how much she loved both Jeremy and Sheila so that does not add up either.

If the picture was as black as you paint it there is NO way Neville would let him have shares in two businesses and tell the Estate manager he was ready for more responsibility. He would have chucked him out.

Also you are always pointing out how they bankrolled Jeremy - so why would they have done that and given him a cottage , good salary and expenses if he hated them so much . I don't think Neville was that weak . He was a magistrate and canny businessman - he was no fool.

[Adam]

I m sorry but I get the feeling she was backing up Julies "story" because otherwise Julie would have been in real trouble. I have a feeling bits of it are true and bits are embellished. She did not put her daughter off that awful photoshoot and article so I am not quite sure of her moral standards I am afraid.

And I am not denying there may have been some family discord - show me a family where there is not. But he said it was in the past. June wrote that letter saying how much she loved both Jeremy and Sheila so that does not add up either.

If the picture was as black as you paint it there is NO way Neville would let him have shares in two businesses and tell the Estate manager he was ready for more responsibility. He would have chucked him out.

Also you are always pointing out how they bankrolled Jeremy - so why would they have done that and given him a cottage , good salary and expenses if he hated them so much . I don't think Neville was that weak . He was a magistrate and canny businessman - he was no fool.

Jeremy was right in his testimony. Everyone was lying.

Wait there. He testified that he agreed with MM testimony.

[Mr. Gee]

Jeremy was right in his testimony. Everyone was lying.

Wait there. He testified that he agreed with MM testimony.

He agreed with JM's statement before she changed it. If it was the truth to start with then she would not need to change it. And if she changed it that immediately throws doubt upon her second statement. What I can comprehend is why the jury believed her at all. I will stand by the judge on that one. They were both liars so why believe the one over the other. Of course that also begs the question why would Bamber lie?

[Reader]

The change was in order to make up the lie that Nevill phoned police too.

Pc West: I again related the details of my conversation and the officer [Pc Saxby] told me that he would go direct to White House Farm with his Sergeant."

Either the above is deliberately misleading or it was Pc West who got Pc Saxby to go to WHF, not Malcolm Bonnett.

[Jan]

Jeremy was right in his testimony. Everyone was lying.

Wait there. He testified that he agreed with MM testimony.

Adam -I don't see the point in sarcasm and I am not going to argue you when I have not seen the full testimony and questions. There is no point.

I did say some of it could be true - but embellished

And if he is innocent of course some people lied. But you are also missing the point that some things that were true and used against him - do not actually make him a murderer. If everyone who had arguments or said they hated their parents became murderers the prisons would be in collapse.If every burglar became a murderer then the prisons would have no places . etc etc,

[Adam]

He agreed with JM's statement before she changed it. If it was the truth to start with then she would not need to change it. And if she changed it that immediately throws doubt upon her second statement. What I can comprehend is why the jury believed her at all. I will stand by the judge on that one. They were both liars so why believe the one over the other. Of course that also begs the question why would Bamber lie?

Are you talking about the first statement done just after the massacre. When she was in shock and in love with Jeremy. Refusing to believe he had done it ?

Poor young woman. Jeremy dragging her into it.

[Jan]

Are you talking about the first statement done just after the massacre. When she was in shock and in love with Jeremy. Refusing to believe he had done it ?

Poor young woman. Jeremy dragging her into it.

Have you actually read her statements?

[Jane]

Are you talking about the first statement done just after the massacre. When she was in shock and in love with Jeremy. Refusing to believe he had done it ?

Poor young woman. Jeremy dragging her into it.

Have you considered that she MAY have stood by him and supported him simply in the hope that he'd reward her with marriage? Where does love come into it?

[Adam]

Have you considered that she MAY have stood by him and supported him simply in the hope that he'd reward her with marriage? Where does love come into it?

I don't think that was realistic at the time. Jeremy testified he was seeing less of Julie. Travelling to London less. Two young people were probably getting bored after a long relationship.

Marriage was even more unlikely after it looked like Jeremy was going to be a rich man. Brett it seemed was going to be his new buddy after the inevitable breakup with Julie happened.