Dodgy crime scene ammo'...

[mike tesko]

There must have been 14 corresponding bullet cases, to these 14 bullets - bullets that were loaded, fired, and ejected from the Bamber (DRH/15) rifle, and 11 other bullet cases, that belong to one or more, other weapons.,

That's not what Malcolm Fletcher said.

He said that he formed the opinion that all 25 bullets were fired from the Ashultz rifle.

He also stated that he had formed the opinion that it would be extremely unlikely that the wounds to Sheila Caffell were self inflicted.

Malcolm Fletcher Qualifications:


BALLISTICS REPORT:

... Fletcher cannot link 10 of the 25 bullets to the rifle (18), as indicated in his report - he only came to the conclusion that the 25 wounds inflicted to the 5 victims, were made by bullets fired via the gun (18), because of a reliance upon the bullet cases. His comments are somewhat contradictary, ambiguous, and inconsistent - or in other words, very misleading.,

[mike tesko]

Fletcher did no work at all, to try and match any of the bullets to any of the bullet cases. What he does say, however, is that he was unable to establish if any of the bullets, had been fired through the silencer - one should not overlook that rather crucial finding...

[Hartley]

Fletcher did no work at all, to try and match any of the bullets to any of the bullet cases. What he does say, however, is that he was unable to establish if any of the bullets, had been fired through the silencer - one should not overlook that rather crucial finding...

Yes that's true, but he does say that the lack of blood from the the muzzle of the rifle would indicate that the shots were fired when the moderator was attached.

But I know you have your theory that test firing would have removed any blood from the muzzle.

[mike tesko]

What Fletcher does not mention in any of his reports, is that of the 25 bullet cases he examined, only 11 of them were found to be coated in super glue residue - the other 14 bullet cases, were not. To be pondered, is why were only 11 bullet cases coated in super glue, if on 23rd August 1985, all 25 bullet cases, were exposed to super glue treatment? How come only 11 of them are coated in super glue residue, and the other 14 are not?

[paulg]

If the team who broke in  reported two bodies, and later it was reported that four bodies were found upstairs, be the reason 6 body bags were sent.

An extra body bag would be needed for body parts that had been blown off bodies....sorry to turn peoples stomachs.

I doubt very much that body parts would have been blown off.  The .22 rimfire subsonic ammunition used is not powerful enough to do that, even when fired at close range.  There would have been a lot of blood but otherwise the bodies would have been intact.  Had a centrefire rifle or shotgun been used I might agree with your comment but if six body bags were requested for WHF in my view that can only have been because at some stage it was believed that there were six bodies.

 

You may well be right, but the person ordering the body bags i doubt would know this straight away. Shots had been fired into skulls, blood no doubt everywhere. Body parts are bagged up, and returned for burial with their owners after examination.

[Hartley]

What Fletcher does not mention in any of his reports, is that of the 25 bullet cases he examined, only 11 of them were found to be coated in super glue residue - the other 14 bullet cases, were not. To be pondered, is why were only 11 bullet cases coated in super glue, if on 23rd August 1985, all 25 bullet cases, were exposed to super glue treatment? How come only 11 of them are coated in super glue residue, and the other 14 are not?

Any chance you can point me in the direction of where it says that about the superglue treatment?

[mike tesko]

Fletcher did no work at all, to try and match any of the bullets to any of the bullet cases. What he does say, however, is that he was unable to establish if any of the bullets, had been fired through the silencer - one should not overlook that rather crucial finding...

Yes that's true, but he does say that the lack of blood from the the muzzle of the rifle would indicate that the shots were fired when the moderator was attached.

But I know you have your theory that test firing would have removed any blood from the muzzle.

... My theory, as you put it, is factual, and confirms that there was an earlier unofficial test fire of rifle (18) and control ammunition, that was used for comparison purposes, against bullet cases, on 12th, 13th, 18th and 19th September 1985, bearing the signature of the ballistic expert, Fletcher - on dates before he officially took possession of it...

[Hartley]

Fletcher did no work at all, to try and match any of the bullets to any of the bullet cases. What he does say, however, is that he was unable to establish if any of the bullets, had been fired through the silencer - one should not overlook that rather crucial finding...

Yes that's true, but he does say that the lack of blood from the the muzzle of the rifle would indicate that the shots were fired when the moderator was attached.

But I know you have your theory that test firing would have removed any blood from the muzzle.

... My theory, as you put it, is factual, and confirms that there was an earlier unofficial test fire of rifle (18) and control ammunition, that was used for comparison purposes, against bullet cases, on 12th, 13th, 18th and 19th September 1985, bearing the signature of the ballistic expert, Fletcher - on dates before he officially took possession of it...

I didn't say that it was a theory that a firing test took place, I said it was a theory of yours that such a firing test would remove all traces of blood from the rifle muzzle.

[clifford]

Mike if you are saying that MORE than one gun was used, then surely SC did not do the killings.
On this assumption at least two shooters were involved.

[clifford]

To be honest this would make more sense as only RB seems to have struggled

[mike tesko]

What Fletcher does not mention in any of his reports, is that of the 25 bullet cases he examined, only 11 of them were found to be coated in super glue residue - the other 14 bullet cases, were not. To be pondered, is why were only 11 bullet cases coated in super glue, if on 23rd August 1985, all 25 bullet cases, were exposed to super glue treatment? How come only 11 of them are coated in super glue residue, and the other 14 are not?

Any chance you can point me in the direction of where it says that about the superglue treatment?

... Yes.

[clifford]

yes what, point us

[clifford]

Mike I want to believe that you are right, but you drip feed information,
Give us something to get our teeth into.

[grahameb]

Fletcher did no work at all, to try and match any of the bullets to any of the bullet cases. What he does say, however, is that he was unable to establish if any of the bullets, had been fired through the silencer - one should not overlook that rather crucial finding...

Yes that's true, but he does say that the lack of blood from the the muzzle of the rifle would indicate that the shots were fired when the moderator was attached.

But I know you have your theory that test firing would have removed any blood from the muzzle.

It just seems illogical to me if it was JB who did the murders why he should put the silencer into the gun cupboard? Why not just get rid of it as there were other silencers in the cupboard. Also if he wanted to make it seem like a suicide then he could easily have smeared the end of the rifle with blood? And remember the police examined his house for blood as well.

[tut tut]

Fletcher did no work at all, to try and match any of the bullets to any of the bullet cases. What he does say, however, is that he was unable to establish if any of the bullets, had been fired through the silencer - one should not overlook that rather crucial finding...

Yes that's true, but he does say that the lack of blood from the the muzzle of the rifle would indicate that the shots were fired when the moderator was attached.

But I know you have your theory that test firing would have removed any blood from the muzzle.

It just seems illogical to me if it was JB who did the murders why he should put the silencer into the gun cupboard? Why not just get rid of it as there were other silencers in the cupboard. Also if he wanted to make it seem like a suicide then he could easily have smeared the end of the rifle with blood? And remember the police examined his house for blood as well.

They is not such thing as the perfect crime, if it was him, he wouldn't have expected his father putting up such a fight...You could argue also, well if the father did call, why not call 999 etc and we could go on and on and if he had got rid of the silencer and Police found this was missing, that would be pointing the finger at him even more as no one else was involved.