Author Topic: A Call To Essex Police From Neville? - The poll  (Read 58638 times)

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Mr. Gee

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Re: A Call To Essex Police From Neville? - The poll
« Reply #720 on: October 16, 2014, 02:07:PM »
Excellent question Jansus and of course the answer is - she doesn't.
Of course another question could be asked, where did she get it from?

Offline lookout

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Re: A Call To Essex Police From Neville? - The poll
« Reply #721 on: October 16, 2014, 02:10:PM »
Apparently it was the rifle with the smashed " handle" that was found near Sheila. We've heard very little about the smashed one ? Was it ever examined,along with the piece that came off it ?

Offline Caroline

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Re: A Call To Essex Police From Neville? - The poll
« Reply #722 on: October 16, 2014, 03:57:PM »
Apparently it was the rifle with the smashed " handle" that was found near Sheila. We've heard very little about the smashed one ? Was it ever examined,along with the piece that came off it ?

Sorry Lookout, not sure what you mean? There was only one.
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Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: A Call To Essex Police From Neville? - The poll
« Reply #723 on: October 16, 2014, 04:14:PM »
The whole argument about whether Sheila's body was moved or not was crucial to the defence's argument. For if they could prove that she was moved then that would disprove that Jeremy  staged the scene.

That's not true in the least.  The whole issue of police moving her body is a red herring Jeremy supporters raise because they want to pretend Jeremy is innocent but having nothing vlaid to reaise to rebut his guilt.

The fact that police moved her body after they took the initial photos is indisputable.  They indeed had to move her body to remove it from the scene so moving her body after tkaing the initial photos means nothing at all.

Moving her body even before the photos would not mean much it would just mean we would have to go by police witness statements as to the state of her body when found as opposed to having a photo showing the exact state before police moved her.

Moving her body doesn't impact any of the evidence that proves Jeremy's guilt.  She was moved too long after her death for the movement to have accounted for the blood staining on her gown or the pool of blood on the floor that the bible which is the only theoretical relevance moving her body slightly could have. 

Her body was seated propped up against something when shot and moved flat after she died but within minutes of being shot.  Similarly the bible was opened and closed after her death and evne placed in the pool of blood that formed after her death while it was still wet. Ther eis no way police moving her body hours later would have any relevance to either issue.

It is just one of many worthless red herrings Jeremy supporters resort to and they can't even think up  a potential point of how it impacts anything it is just tossed out there without any coherent argument. 







 
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Offline Jan

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Re: A Call To Essex Police From Neville? - The poll
« Reply #724 on: October 16, 2014, 04:21:PM »




She certainly was negative as far as Jeremy's concerned,which was the idea of her book.

This is the extract when Sheila was found I quote," The slim figure was neatly dressed in a fresh nightgown.The dark,red-tinted hair was thick and glossy and the " outstretched " hands were tipped by long,blood-red nails.unquote ".


this is why I have resisted reading books - or when I have taken it with a pinch of salt.

I don't think in any of the reports it actually said how long her nails were . And Anne Eaton apparently did find a false finger nail - so perhaps they were painted but not particularly long.


Also the one thing that does annoy me about the moving of the body - even if it was just a small amount is the two officers that certain posters dismiss as having made a mistake who did say that the body/bible and rifle were in a different position to what they saw. They were experienced officers and why would they even mention it if they were not sure.

There my have been a possibility that stupidly they moved the body more than they admitted to take the photos ( after all apparently they did not check the gun was safe or wear gloves ::) that made the body look more staged than it was.

At the time as they thought the case was so cut and dried they did not think it mattered at all - why would they ? But later the case changed they could not admit what they had done. I am not saying that body was found on the bed - but if they were correct then the body may not have looked "staged" at all and that does affect the case greatly. 

It also would explain the case under her body and the position of the bible.


Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: A Call To Essex Police From Neville? - The poll
« Reply #725 on: October 16, 2014, 04:22:PM »
How would Claire Powell know that?

A more precise question would be what evidence did Powell have that would justify making such claim in when the official police statements and photos demonstrate something different?

When challenging the official account one should note what the official account is and present evidence to the contrary.  She though was presenting that as the official account essentially.  Which means either she didn't know the official account was different or she didn't care and decided to pretend that was the official account.  It could be sloppiness or deception.  Either way she is wrong which is what matters to us.

It is one of the reasons why authors are not valid sources.  If they present evidence to support their claims that is a different story particularly if you are able to verify the evidence.
 
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Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: A Call To Essex Police From Neville? - The poll
« Reply #726 on: October 16, 2014, 04:33:PM »

this is why I have resisted reading books - or when I have taken it with a pinch of salt.

I don't think in any of the reports it actually said how long her nails were . And Anne Eaton apparently did find a false finger nail - so perhaps they were painted but not particularly long.


Also the one thing that does annoy me about the moving of the body - even if it was just a small amount is the two officers that certain posters dismiss as having made a mistake who did say that the body/bible and rifle were in a different position to what they saw. They were experienced officers and why would they even mention it if they were not sure.

There my have been a possibility that stupidly they moved the body more than they admitted to take the photos ( after all apparently they did not check the gun was safe or wear gloves ::) that made the body look more staged than it was.

At the time as they thought the case was so cut and dried they did not think it mattered at all - why would they ? But later the case changed they could not admit what they had done. I am not saying that body was found on the bed - but if they were correct then the body may not have looked "staged" at all and that does affect the case greatly. 

It also would explain the case under her body and the position of the bible.

Books are good for basic background and some books actually detail evidence.  Some will cite from documents, testimony and even provide documents and transcripts on occasion.  There can thus be value in reading books but one has to understand the limitaitons and to look to see if they actually contain any evidence or not.  Raping footnotes has always been a way historians and scholars advance knowledge.  Works without footnotes that list sources for claims are usually worthless.  Some will forego doing so in footnotes and do it in the main body but even then something is usually reserved for footnotes.  If you read footnotes and there is no source listed just further discussion in general it is a bad sign.

Citing an affidavit, statement or document is appropriate in a formal work like a book and better still is to cite the paragraph or page at least so people can check the claim to make sure the source actually supports the proposition asserted. 

With historical works that is a staple.  You check the claim and if valid you can adopt the claim instead of just saying it is a claim made by someone else that you are not positive whether it is true or not.

 

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Offline lookout

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Re: A Call To Essex Police From Neville? - The poll
« Reply #727 on: October 16, 2014, 04:43:PM »
Sorry Lookout, not sure what you mean? There was only one.






According to Professor Leon McDonnell there were two rifles. One on Sheila and another complete with silencer in " another room ".Seemingly,it was that silencer which had blood on it as well ( which was already attached to the rifle )

Offline lookout

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Re: A Call To Essex Police From Neville? - The poll
« Reply #728 on: October 16, 2014, 04:47:PM »

this is why I have resisted reading books - or when I have taken it with a pinch of salt.

I don't think in any of the reports it actually said how long her nails were . And Anne Eaton apparently did find a false finger nail - so perhaps they were painted but not particularly long.


Also the one thing that does annoy me about the moving of the body - even if it was just a small amount is the two officers that certain posters dismiss as having made a mistake who did say that the body/bible and rifle were in a different position to what they saw. They were experienced officers and why would they even mention it if they were not sure.

There my have been a possibility that stupidly they moved the body more than they admitted to take the photos ( after all apparently they did not check the gun was safe or wear gloves ::) that made the body look more staged than it was.

At the time as they thought the case was so cut and dried they did not think it mattered at all - why would they ? But later the case changed they could not admit what they had done. I am not saying that body was found on the bed - but if they were correct then the body may not have looked "staged" at all and that does affect the case greatly. 

It also would explain the case under her body and the position of the bible.





Every publication is different. How on earth can you have differences like that for exactly the same crime ?

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: A Call To Essex Police From Neville? - The poll
« Reply #729 on: October 16, 2014, 04:58:PM »
Apparently it was the rifle with the smashed " handle" that was found near Sheila. We've heard very little about the smashed one ? Was it ever examined,along with the piece that came off it ?

We have heard a lot about it, it is the only rifle in the case there were no others.  The only other rifle in the house was just a gun that used CO2 to fire metal pellets not a real riflearm.  The only other firearms were shotguns.

They fingerprinted the murder weapon, they tested the blood stains on it finding they were human blood stains,  they searched the barrel to see if it had any blood in it, which it didn't so it could not have been used for any contact shots to any of the victims without the moderator attached, and they looked at the damage to the stock including taking the stock off and looking inside to the extent possible since it has a cavity.  The stock ha several stress fractures running from the front towards the back.  These fractures were caused by the stock being squeezed at both ends. The piece that broke off also browke off from the same sort of pressure.  The break ran laterally.  The pressure that caused such was obviously someone forcing the butt of the rifle into something.  You had force on one side and it was kitting something hard on the other.

Nevill's skull had wounds that were caused by the butt of the rifle striking it.  His face as well and arms though his face in addition could have been struck by a fist as well not exclusively the rifle. I sincerely doubt bashing the nose and face with the rifle would be able to cause the damage in question to the butt.  Bashing the skull is much more likely to cause such. 

The rifle had one print that belonged to Sheila, one that belonged to Jeremy and several partials that could not be matched to anyone.
 
They never typed the blood on the weapon they just did a test to determine if it was human blood.  No doubt most if not all the blood on it was Nevill's.  The stains on the stock and rear of the weapon were determined to be consistent with medium velocity spatter.  Someone bleeding was being stuck with the stock and the blood was spashing onto the rifle.  The only one with wounds indicating he was being struck with the rifle was Nevill so obviously the blood had to be his so a test of blood type wasn't necessary.

That pretty much covers everything about the rifle physically.  The only thing to add is that the 25 casings were tied as being fired by the murder weapon thus proving it was the weapon that fired such 25 rounds.  To prove that required test firing bullets and comparing the the extraction marks and firing pin impressions on the samples to the 25 used in the murder.  So we know a different wepaon was not used.

You suggested the other day the gun on Sheila wasn't the actual murder wepaon.  If that were the case it would prove even more strongly that someone else killed her because she never stood up after being shot and certainly can't have died then brought the gun to a different room.  The gun on her was the murder weapon.   




 
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Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: A Call To Essex Police From Neville? - The poll
« Reply #730 on: October 16, 2014, 05:02:PM »

According to Professor Leon McDonnell there were two rifles. One on Sheila and another complete with silencer in " another room ".Seemingly,it was that silencer which had blood on it as well ( which was already attached to the rifle )

And as explained to you he was wrong.  If his claims were true then the defense would have had no ability at all to argue Sheila committed suicide. They alreayd were behind the 8 ball in making such a claim because of the actual evidence.  If the murder weapon were found in a different room from Sheila that is even stronger evidence than the blood in moderator that Sheila was murdered.
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Mr. Gee

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Re: A Call To Essex Police From Neville? - The poll
« Reply #731 on: October 16, 2014, 07:03:PM »





According to Professor Leon McDonnell there were two rifles. One on Sheila and another complete with silencer in " another room ".Seemingly,it was that silencer which had blood on it as well ( which was already attached to the rifle )
I have never read that lookout? Have you got a erm....Source ::) for it? :)

Offline lookout

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Re: A Call To Essex Police From Neville? - The poll
« Reply #732 on: October 16, 2014, 07:05:PM »
I have never read that lookout? Have you got a erm....Source ::) for it? :)






It's in a statement of his,where in the next breath, he's asking for his fee. ???

Mr. Gee

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Re: A Call To Essex Police From Neville? - The poll
« Reply #733 on: October 16, 2014, 07:07:PM »
And as explained to you he was wrong.  If his claims were true then the defense would have had no ability at all to argue Sheila committed suicide. They alreayd were behind the 8 ball in making such a claim because of the actual evidence.  If the murder weapon were found in a different room from Sheila that is even stronger evidence than the blood in moderator that Sheila was murdered.
Of course if there were blood on the "other" silencer on the other gun then the defence could have argued that Sheila could have used that gun (if it was the same type of gun of course) to shoot her parents then used the accepted murder weapon to kill herself?

Offline Caroline

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Re: A Call To Essex Police From Neville? - The poll
« Reply #734 on: October 16, 2014, 07:08:PM »





It's in a statement of his,where in the next breath, he's asking for his fee. ???

Where is the statement located - the forum or somewhere else?
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