Author Topic: A Call To Essex Police From Neville? - The poll  (Read 58647 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline scipio_usmc

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9502
Re: A Call To Essex Police From Neville? - The poll
« Reply #345 on: September 24, 2014, 06:58:PM »
Both telephone logs were not available at the trial, only one log was available. It was not a tale made up by Bamber or anyone else for that matter. It was another log that was discovered years later. If there were originally both logs the fight would have taken place in the court room. But it didn't. Therefore we must conclude that only one log was available in court for the prosecution and defence. It is therefore only logical to come to the conclusion that the other log materialised years later and that means that only one of the logs was shown to the court.

The trial defense had access to the notebooks of the officers involved including the dispatchers.  They also had access to the 2 logs.  That is how they knew about the time discepancy between both logs and why they discussed such at trial.  How could such have been discussed at trial unless they were aware of it?  It doesn't matter that the prosecution chose ot only use Bonnett's at trial the defense was stil aware of the other.

In the meantime it is Bonnett's log the one used at trial, that the campaign team alleges is a log of a call from Nevill to Bonnett.  There is no way to claim the defense lawyers didn't see it, they had ot have seen it.

They read it and didn't think it reflects a call from Nevill to Bonnett because it clearly states the caller was PC West, it clearly states the message was passed to West by Jeremy and they had access to all of Bonnett and West's notes and statements where they described hoaw Jeremy had contacted West and then West passed such infromation to Bonnett.

West's log has nothing to do with Bonnett's log being misconstrued.  Those who misconstrue it intentionally ignore eveyrthing above and are intentionally distorting.

The trial lawyers can't do that nor can the appellate lawyers it is unethical and the argument goes no where because there is so much evidence proving the made up allegation to be false.   
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline Jane

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 33776
Re: A Call To Essex Police From Neville? - The poll
« Reply #346 on: September 24, 2014, 07:03:PM »
The trial defense had access to the notebooks of the officers involved including the dispatchers.  They also had access to the 2 logs.  That is how they knew about the time discepancy between both logs and why they discussed such at trial.  How could such have been discussed at trial unless they were aware of it?  It doesn't matter that the prosecution chose ot only use Bonnett's at trial the defense was stil aware of the other.

In the meantime it is Bonnett's log the one used at trial, that the campaign team alleges is a log of a call from Nevill to Bonnett.  There is no way to claim the defense lawyers didn't see it, they had ot have seen it.

They read it and didn't think it reflects a call from Nevill to Bonnett because it clearly states the caller was PC West, it clearly states the message was passed to West by Jeremy and they had access to all of Bonnett and West's notes and statements where they described hoaw Jeremy had contacted West and then West passed such infromation to Bonnett.

West's log has nothing to do with Bonnett's log being misconstrued.  Those who misconstrue it intentionally ignore eveyrthing above and are intentionally distorting.

The trial lawyers can't do that nor can the appellate lawyers it is unethical and the argument goes no where because there is so much evidence proving the made up allegation to be false.


I was just about to say exactly that. Thank-you for saving me the trouble ;) ;D

Offline scipio_usmc

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9502
Re: A Call To Essex Police From Neville? - The poll
« Reply #347 on: September 24, 2014, 07:06:PM »
Well its not, not really. It does not prove it was used in court all it proves is that it had a court stamp on it.  Unless there is documented evidence somewhere to suggest it was. It is likely or not likely that it was indeed used?

For the record I don't believe NB called the police, never have believed it, but I can see and understand why they come to that conclusion... ;D ;D ;D ;D

It is easy to see that those who come to the conclusion are too biased to be honest and admit relaity and instead distort.

If one is completely ignorant of all facts and doesn't understand how to read a document and does so extremely poorly then in that case one can see the quote on the page and think Nevill passed the message to Bonnett. But after it being pointed out how the document identifies West as the caller, that it specifically states that message was passed to West from Jeremy and represents what Nevill allegedly told Jeremy and becomes aware in full of the claims made by West and Bonnett as well as police who responded who say they were told to go to WHF because of a call made by Jeremy it totally closes the door to Bonnett being called by Nevill.

Far from it being easy to see how anyone can insist the call was made by Nevill once all of this is out there it is impossible to find such claim to be made in good faith.

It obviously is not being made by the campaign team in good faith because they even lied and suggested this has always been a stance of the defense but that the defense had no proof until Bonnett's log surfaced many years later.  It didn't surface many years later the trial defense had to have seen it all exhibits are known about in advance of trial.  All potentially witnesses and a summary of what they will testify to is known in advance as well.   that is how lawyers are able to prepare for a case.  the secret witnesses and trial shocks seen in movies and TV virtually never happen. 



« Last Edit: September 24, 2014, 07:10:PM by scipio_usmc »
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline Patti

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13193
Re: A Call To Essex Police From Neville? - The poll
« Reply #348 on: September 24, 2014, 07:11:PM »
It is easy to see that those who come to the conclusion are too biased to be honest and admit relaity and instead distort.

If one is completely ignorant of all facts and doesn't understand how to read a document and does so extremely poorly then in that case one can see the quote on the page and think Nevill passed the message to Bonnett. But after it being pointed out how the document identifies West as the caller, that it specifically states that message was passed to West from Jeremy and represents what Nevill allegedly told Jeremy and becomes aware in full of the cliams mad eby West and Bonnett as well as police who responded who say they were told to go to WHF because of a call made by Jeremy it totally closes the door to Bonnett being called by Nevill.

Far from it being easy to see how anyone can insist the call was made by Nevill once all of this is out there it is impossible to find such claim to be made in good faith.

It obviously is not being mad eby the campaign team in good faith because they even lied and suggested this has always been a stance of the defense and that the defense had no proof until Bonnett's log surfaced.

No comment Sciopo what you have just posted bares no relation to my post at all....Sorry me duck.  ;D ;D ;D ;D

Mr. Gee

  • Guest
Re: A Call To Essex Police From Neville? - The poll
« Reply #349 on: September 24, 2014, 07:49:PM »
The trial defense had access to the notebooks of the officers involved including the dispatchers.  They also had access to the 2 logs.  That is how they knew about the time discepancy between both logs and why they discussed such at trial.  How could such have been discussed at trial unless they were aware of it?  It doesn't matter that the prosecution chose ot only use Bonnett's at trial the defense was stil aware of the other.

In the meantime it is Bonnett's log the one used at trial, that the campaign team alleges is a log of a call from Nevill to Bonnett.  There is no way to claim the defense lawyers didn't see it, they had ot have seen it.

They read it and didn't think it reflects a call from Nevill to Bonnett because it clearly states the caller was PC West, it clearly states the message was passed to West by Jeremy and they had access to all of Bonnett and West's notes and statements where they described hoaw Jeremy had contacted West and then West passed such infromation to Bonnett.

West's log has nothing to do with Bonnett's log being misconstrued.  Those who misconstrue it intentionally ignore eveyrthing above and are intentionally distorting.

The trial lawyers can't do that nor can the appellate lawyers it is unethical and the argument goes no where because there is so much evidence proving the made up allegation to be false.
I wasn't aware that the two logs were discussed at the trial? I should think that ngb will confirm that? I was under the impression that the other log was discovered years later? If what you say is true, then that puts a different complexion on things?

Mr. Gee

  • Guest
Re: A Call To Essex Police From Neville? - The poll
« Reply #350 on: September 24, 2014, 07:53:PM »
It is easy to see that those who come to the conclusion are too biased to be honest and admit relaity and instead distort.

If one is completely ignorant of all facts and doesn't understand how to read a document and does so extremely poorly then in that case one can see the quote on the page and think Nevill passed the message to Bonnett. But after it being pointed out how the document identifies West as the caller, that it specifically states that message was passed to West from Jeremy and represents what Nevill allegedly told Jeremy and becomes aware in full of the claims made by West and Bonnett as well as police who responded who say they were told to go to WHF because of a call made by Jeremy it totally closes the door to Bonnett being called by Nevill.

Far from it being easy to see how anyone can insist the call was made by Nevill once all of this is out there it is impossible to find such claim to be made in good faith.

It obviously is not being made by the campaign team in good faith because they even lied and suggested this has always been a stance of the defense but that the defense had no proof until Bonnett's log surfaced many years later.  It didn't surface many years later the trial defense had to have seen it all exhibits are known about in advance of trial.  All potentially witnesses and a summary of what they will testify to is known in advance as well.   that is how lawyers are able to prepare for a case.  the secret witnesses and trial shocks seen in movies and TV virtually never happen.
There is no need to make such a comment, especially towards Patti. Everyone is biased whether they are on the guilty side or on the innocent side. Please refrain from such defamatory comments. I'm sure it is within your vast capabilities?
« Last Edit: September 24, 2014, 08:14:PM by Mr. Gee »

Offline Adam

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 44395
Re: A Call To Essex Police From Neville? - The poll
« Reply #351 on: September 24, 2014, 07:59:PM »

Approaching the evidence chronologically, Bamber first takes issue with police reports of his telephone call to Chelmsford station.

After speaking to Bamber, PC West contacted his colleague Malcolm Bonnett in the Chelmsford HQ Information Room. There was also contact with an officer at Witham police station, which is halfway between Chelmsford and Tolleshunt. Bonnett wrote up a memo headed “daughter gone bezerk”, in which he paraphrases what Nevill is supposed to have told Jeremy about Sheila having “got hold of one of my guns”, and adds “Information passed to CD [control at Chelmsford] by Mr Bamber’s son”, confirming that Bonnett’s source was Jeremy Bamber via PC West.

West times Bamber’s own call from Goldhanger to Chelmsford Control at 03.36, whereas the other memo times West’s conversation with Bonnett in the Information Room at 03.26, so at least one timing is inaccurate. But Bamber concludes that the timing is spot on: his suggestion is that the other officer didn’t get his information from West, but from no less a person than Nevill Bamber. The officer, Jeremy maintains, must have taken an emergency call from the 61-year-old farmer and noted Nevill’s words as he’d spoken them.

Aware that a problem existed reconciling the order in which calls between the parties were placed and the time at which they were said to have happened, the Crown liaised with Bonnett. He confirmed that he’d spoken to West at 03.26, passing on the information received from Jeremy Bamber moments beforehand. Later he filled out an official Document Record to this effect.

At no time had he heard from Nevill Bamber or anyone else in connection with the incident at White House Farm. Presumably then, West had misread the clock when he filled out his call log, or just mistakenly wrote 03.36 instead of 03.26.

At 03.35, patrol car CA7 was dispatched to attend the scene from Witham, and Chelmsford directed CA5 to attend at 03.36. Overlooking the fact that the police were co-ordinating their response across relevant parts of the county, Bamber’s supporters also ask why the Essex constabulary should send a car from each station unless the police were responding separately to different reports?

There is something darkly comic about the image of Nevill Bamber, under a hale of bullets, leafing through the phone book to get hold of the number for his local station instead of dialling 999.

Plainly, there is little for Bamber’s defence team to get their teeth into here, but that hasn’t stopped them promoting the risible scenario of a call from Nevill to Witham police station. Earlier this summer the mainstream press picked up on the story: the Mail and Mirror were among papers reporting it on 5 August as a dramatic new find that had the potential to clear the supposed killer.

These papers uncritically reported that all along, documented proof seems to have existed that police had heard about Sheila’s rampage not only via Jeremy but directly from Nevill. If this information was correct, Jeremy’s account was vindicated and he could not possibly be guilty of the murders.

It’s worth considering the implications of the defence’s claim. If it were true, several members of the Essex constabulary would have been aware of the existence of a call from Nevill on the morning of the murders. When officers began to suspect the son of involvement and started poking around for discrepancies in Jeremy’s story, they would quickly have turned up accounts of Nevill’s call, snuffing out any doubts they had about Sheila’s culpability.

In these circumstances, police would only have continued to pursue Bamber for the murders if they were intentionally attempting to frame him.

In fact, Bamber maintains that this is exactly what happened, although he casts the net much wider to take in his relatives as well as the Essex constabulary.

Bamber’s legal team must be aware that claims about Nevill telephoning police withstand no scrutiny. Perhaps their strategy is to keep throwing anything at all to the papers, the better to build a groundswell of feeling that their client is the victim of a miscarriage of justice.

The long retired Stan Jones recently told the Essex Chronicle that Bamber "consistently presents material which has already been discussed and adjudicated on in court and appeal hearings”, manipulating its supposed meaning to support his claim to be wrongly convicted.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline scipio_usmc

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9502
Re: A Call To Essex Police From Neville? - The poll
« Reply #352 on: September 24, 2014, 08:04:PM »
There is no need to make such a comment, especially towards Patti. Everyone is biased whether they are on the guilty side or on the innocent side. Please reframe from such defamatory comments. I'm sure it is within your vast capabilities?

How did I aim it at Patti?  Patti hasn't indicated she believes that a call was made.  Or did she say such somewhere and I miss it?  She said the opposite so far as I have seen. 
« Last Edit: September 24, 2014, 08:05:PM by scipio_usmc »
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline Caroline

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 27076
Re: A Call To Essex Police From Neville? - The poll
« Reply #353 on: September 24, 2014, 08:06:PM »
The trial defense had access to the notebooks of the officers involved including the dispatchers.  They also had access to the 2 logs.  That is how they knew about the time discepancy between both logs and why they discussed such at trial.  How could such have been discussed at trial unless they were aware of it?  It doesn't matter that the prosecution chose ot only use Bonnett's at trial the defense was stil aware of the other.

In the meantime it is Bonnett's log the one used at trial, that the campaign team alleges is a log of a call from Nevill to Bonnett.  There is no way to claim the defense lawyers didn't see it, they had ot have seen it.

They read it and didn't think it reflects a call from Nevill to Bonnett because it clearly states the caller was PC West, it clearly states the message was passed to West by Jeremy and they had access to all of Bonnett and West's notes and statements where they described hoaw Jeremy had contacted West and then West passed such infromation to Bonnett.

West's log has nothing to do with Bonnett's log being misconstrued.  Those who misconstrue it intentionally ignore eveyrthing above and are intentionally distorting.

The trial lawyers can't do that nor can the appellate lawyers it is unethical and the argument goes no where because there is so much evidence proving the made up allegation to be false.

I totally agree Scipio, it's been proven beyond a shadow but if people want to try and claim that the jury/defense didn't see it then they are simply in denial. It has a court stamp, an exhibit number and even the Bamber OS claim that the jury saw the log.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Few people have the imagination for reality

Mr. Gee

  • Guest
Re: A Call To Essex Police From Neville? - The poll
« Reply #354 on: September 24, 2014, 08:09:PM »
I totally agree Scipio, it's been proven beyond a shadow but if people want to try and claim that the jury/defense didn't see it then they are simply in denial. It has a court stamp, an exhibit number and even the Bamber OS claim that the jury saw the log.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Just out of curiosity could you point me to the court transcript or document that refers to the two logs having been discussed in court?

Offline Patti

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13193
Re: A Call To Essex Police From Neville? - The poll
« Reply #355 on: September 24, 2014, 08:11:PM »
How did I aim it at Patti?  Patti hasn't indicated she believes that a call was made.  Or did she say such somewhere and I miss it?  She said the opposite so far as I have seen.

Your comments look as if you are referring to me Scip. Grahame being the gentleman he is, is pointing this out to you.  ;D ;D ;D ;D

Mr. Gee

  • Guest
Re: A Call To Essex Police From Neville? - The poll
« Reply #356 on: September 24, 2014, 08:16:PM »
Your comments look as if you are referring to me Scip. Grahame being the gentleman he is, is pointing this out to you.  ;D ;D ;D ;D
It doesn't matter who he was referring to in his comments. It is necessary that we all begin to treat others as valuable individuals and not to count them as fools or the like. I am trying to do so. I know it's difficult. But I think we must at least make the effort.

Offline Adam

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 44395
Re: A Call To Essex Police From Neville? - The poll
« Reply #357 on: September 24, 2014, 08:18:PM »
There is nothing in Wilkes's book about the call logs being discussed at trial. Maybe it was discussed but not in relation to the possibility of Neville phoning the police. But then what was the reason for discussing it at all ?

The mirror uncritically brought up the issue decades later. After Jeremy suddenly decided a log showed Neville called the police.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Jane

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 33776
Re: A Call To Essex Police From Neville? - The poll
« Reply #358 on: September 24, 2014, 08:20:PM »
There is nothing in Wilkes's book about the call logs being discussed at trial. Maybe it was discussed but not in relation to the possibility of Neville phoning the police. But then what was the reason for discussing it at all ?

The mirror uncritically brought up the issue decades later. After Jeremy suddenly decided a log showed Neville called the police.



Or someone else pointed it out to him.

Offline Patti

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13193
Re: A Call To Essex Police From Neville? - The poll
« Reply #359 on: September 24, 2014, 08:21:PM »
It doesn't matter who he was referring to in his comments. It is necessary that we all begin to treat others as valuable individuals and not to count them as fools or the like. I am trying to do so. I know it's difficult. But I think we must at least make the effort.

Totally agree with you Grahame.  ;)