A Call To Essex Police From Neville? - The poll

[No-Bits]

Goodness harters so he didnt use that word, I simply cant be bothered with this any more.

So why are you arguing then? 

[scipio_usmc]

I can go with the mix up re: female body and even the further 3 bodies found upstairs - just. However,I have never seen a plausible explanation for the male and female found in kitchen described as a murder AND a suicide. How could Nevill's lone body possibly be described as both?

I have mistaken living men for women and women for men.  Perhaps even worse I have mistaken rather ugly women as being men in drag.  Some people are easy to mistake.  When you see a face up close you can usually tell whether you were right or wrong. 

In this case the face could not be seen even from a distance so that makes it far easier to mistake Nevill for a woman.

What people keep ignoring is that he logs were not written by someone on the scene. The logs were written by people far from the scene who can misinterpret what they hear.  Worse yet they were being fed information from people who were not eyewitnesses and who theselves could have been misconstrued things.  That is why courts want testimony from eyewitnesses instead of second or thirdhard accounts of what such eyewitnesses saw.

There are no eyewitnesses who saw more than 1 body in the kitchen.  The person who looked in the window only saw 1 body, the one that ultimately ended up being Nevill. Likewise every cop who entered only saw 1 body in the kitchen. That's more than a dozen people.  That alone is enough to demonstrate the log entry was definitely a mistake.

But the physical evidence says that as well. The physical evidence is that Sheila and June died in the master bedroom. Blood evidence as well as shell casings demonstrate that. There is no evidence to suggest either were dragged by the killer to the kitchen then dragged back to their orignal death location by police.   


     

[Caroline]

What honest mistakes?

How can it just be an honest mistake that he remembered things that never happened?

It was an honest mistake he originally told police he had trained Sheila how to use the murder weapon and that she had fired all weapons in the house though he later admitted this had not happened?

It was an honest mistake that he told police he called Julie after police though he clearly left after hanging up with police?

It was an honest mistake that he told police he had not used the gun the week prior to the murders but later change dhis story to he and Nevill repeatedly using the gun the week before the murders so as to prevent AP from being the last known user? 

It was an honest mistake there were too many bullets remaining in the kitchen for such supply to have been the sole source of ammunition used in the murders if his claims were true?

It was an honest mistake that he told police the gun could not fit in the closet with the scope and moderator attached though it could?

It was an honest mistake to say he relaced the phone in the kitchen with the bedroom phone because the kitchen phone borke when in fact the kitchen phone worked fine?

These are the things raised to show he was being dishonest.

Things where honest mistakes could have been made were not raised such as the conflicting story of whether he claimed to have fired the gun. Some police and relatives say he told them he fired the gun while others say he clamied he didn't.  While it is possible he told them initially he fired and then changed his story it is also possible that they assumed used meant fired and that he was never intending to claim it was fired.  So he is given a pass for such and similar like things where genine errors could account for the discrepancies.

If guilty is is neither honest nor a mistake because Neville couldn't have called if he'd just killed him.

[Reader]

.  .  . but later - as he said in his original statement - discovered it was the body of an adult male

On the day in question, Collins did something that was significant at the time: he went up to the kitchen window, looked in and saw what he reported to be the body of a female. In his statement dated that same day, he stated "the following lights were switched on. kitchen with no curtains at window," and so visibility would have been good. The window probably shows very little of the area immediately next to the door, but that area has a chair in it in the photograph, Nevill's body being near the Aga, where most of it could be seen. If Pc Collins saw the male body that he had just previously identified as female, it's very strange that his statement of the same day makes no mention of the sighting through the window, no mention of reporting a female body, and no mention of any surpise on discovering a male body. It merely gives "We forced an entry into the house via this door and moved into the kitchen where we saw behind the door near to the fire the body of a male person aged about sixty years". How could he simply forget to mention that he'd reported seeing a female just minutes before that? He must have deliberately omitted that information.

[Jane]

If guilty is is neither honest nor a mistake because Neville couldn't have called if he'd just killed him.

Which I guess is why Jeremy is the ONLY one to know for certain sure if the police received a call from Neville.

[Reader]

Jeremy couldn't know for certain that Nevill called the police, and if Nevill did call the police, the person who received his call would also know, so Jeremy couldn't possibly be the only person to know.

[scipio_usmc]

Simple I haven't left the thread at all I am talking about the supposed second telephone log that Bamber believed to indicate that Nevill made a call to police. I am making the point that it was a genuine mistake on his part. Do you not understand my words? I believe it was a genuine mistake on his part. But there are those who take the opportunity to make it look as if he was lying about it. That is all I am saying. Why do you think I am trying to accuse you of anything? The point I am making is simple enough to understand.

In order for it to be a genuine mistake on Jeremy's part he would have to have received a call from Nevill and be innocent.

Otherwise it is impossible to be a mistake and instead to be an intentional lie he made up thinking tha the coudl pull one over on peopel and make them think Nevill phoned police.

It could only be a genuine mistake for Jeremy advocates though tha trequires the to read it very quickly and miss that it states the message came from PC West and that it was passed to him from Jeremy.

There are 2 possiiblities:

1) After many years Jeremy finally thought up the lie that the log used at trial supports Nevill having called police

or

2) someone else thought of it and then Jeremy adopted it.

I think the latter is true he would have come up with it sooner if he came up with it himself and he damn well knew Nevill didn't call police so that is why he didn't see an opportunity.

It took someone who:

A) believed Nevill could have made the call

and

either:

B) Read the document so poorly as to miss that it said West was the caller and that the quote was passed to him from Jeremy

or

C) The person knew it said West was the caller and the quote was passed to him from Jeremy but decided to pull a fast one anyway and ignore such or claim such was added later to conceal the call from Nevill.

It is possible jeremy thought it up years later he had eveyr reaosn to lie an dpretend Nevill called him and police but I personally doubt he thought it up I believe someone else thought this up and Jeremy just adopted it.

But he didn't run too far with this argument it never made it to the CCRC so far as I can tell, the campaign team is who ran with it.


 

[Jane]

On the day in question, Collins did something that was significant at the time: he went up to the kitchen window, looked in and saw what he reported to be the body of a female. In his statement dated that same day, he stated "the following lights were switched on. kitchen with no curtains at window," and so visibility would have been good. The window probably shows very little of the area immediately next to the door, but that area has a chair in it in the photograph, Nevill's body being near the Aga, where most of it could be seen. If Pc Collins saw the male body that he had just previously identified as female, it's very strange that his statement of the same day makes no mention of the sighting through the window, no mention of reporting a female body, and no mention of any surpise on discovering a male body. It merely gives "We forced an entry into the house via this door and moved into the kitchen where we saw behind the door near to the fire the body of a male person aged about sixty years". How could he simply forget to mention that he'd reported seeing a female just minutes before that? He must have deliberately omitted that information.

Reader, even after all this time, I'm still not certain what it is you're asking us to believe. When I first joined the forum I thought it rather odd that a man was mistaken for a woman but from what I can make out -for the first time, I might add- from that very grainy photo, I CAN see why the mistake would have occurred. The body appears to be clad in very dark clothes. What stands out, therefore, is the shock of long, almost colourless hair which is falling forward. I can quite see how, on first sighting, this would appear to be more female than male, especially if viewed by someone not au fait with how middle class men of a certain generation wear their hair OR if they'd only previously seen it smoothed and groomed.

[maggie]

So why are you arguing then? 

I am not arguing, for some reason you decided to pick an argument over a word, it's quite clear what I meant.

[Jane]

Jeremy couldn't know for certain that Nevill called the police, and if Nevill did call the police, the person who received his call would also know, so Jeremy couldn't possibly be the only person to know.

If Neville was already dead it's highly unlikely he'd have called the police.

[Neil]

I am not arguing, for some reason you decided to pick an argument over a word, it's quite clear what I meant.

Quite an important word though, I would suggest. 

[JackiePreece]

I have see this photograph, not just the photocopy shown here.  Without going into details there is far more visible.  I accept that a brief glimpse of the view from the rear might have led to the mistaken conclusion that the body was that of a women, but that is far less likely than might appear from this poor quality photocopy.

This remains an aspect of the case which troubles me.

Can you explain more Ngb
What troubles you on this very important point?

[scipio_usmc]

Jeremy couldn't know for certain that Nevill called the police, and if Nevill did call the police, the person who received his call would also know, so Jeremy couldn't possibly be the only person to know.

Jeremy knows for sure that Nevill did not call police.  He knows that he entered the master bedroom and shot them and then killed Neivll in the kitchenand that he can't have called anyone.

That is why he was not of a mindset to think up the lie that Bonnett's log proves Nevill phoned police it took someone else to think up such a tale.

[Adam]

Jeremy as the killer would have to say Neville would not call the police. As apparently Neville liked to keep things private. That is because as the killer,  he knew Neville had not called the police.

If he claimed Neville called the police, the police would check and show that is incorrect. Making the police instantly suspicious of Jeremy.

He only claimed Neville called the police decades later.

[JackiePreece]

Jeremy knows for sure that Nevill did not call police.  He knows that he entered the master bedroom and shot them and then killed Neivll in the kitchenand that he can't have called anyone.

That is why he was not of a mindset to think up the lie that Bonnett's log proves Nevill phoned police it took someone else to think up such a tale.

In your opinion!!!