Author Topic: A Call To Essex Police From Neville? - The poll  (Read 58600 times)

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Offline Reader

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Re: A Call To Essex Police From Neville? - The poll
« Reply #150 on: September 18, 2014, 10:06:PM »
PC West told Bonnett what Jeremy told him.  This has been stated again and again . . .
That's irrelevant, as I'm asking for a plausible actual conversation (or at least Pc West's side of it) that can be read through and timed, not just a description of the conversation. There's very little in Bonnett's notes, so you don't know whether Pc West mentioned everything, and Bonnett wouldn't have needed long to write down the notes that he made during Pc West's call. Take into account that Pc West was confident that he had spoken to Jeremy for less than a minute before contacting HQIR.

You are the one unable to come up with anything plausible as to why West would ask Jeremy from the same exact information he would have already have obtained from Nevill and why he would not dispatch any police in response to Nevill's call.
He didn't know in advance how similar Jeremy's call would be to Nevill's. He probably let Bonnett do the dispatching.

The simple fact the WHF line was checked is proof that Jeremy alone called.  If Nevill had phoned police after phoning Jeremy that would mean that Nevill used the phone after phoning Jeremy and the police would be aware of that.
Pc West was aware of both calls he took, but that didn't mean that he shouldn't try to contact Nevill. He did so and got the engaged tone, so he asked the operator to check the line. PC West didn't mention doing anything else after Jeremy's call ended and before trying the WHF line, so how come the line check occurred at 3:42am?

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: A Call To Essex Police From Neville? - The poll
« Reply #151 on: September 18, 2014, 10:43:PM »
That's irrelevant, as I'm asking for a plausible actual conversation (or at least Pc West's side of it) that can be read through and timed, not just a description of the conversation. There's very little in Bonnett's notes, so you don't know whether Pc West mentioned everything, and Bonnett wouldn't have needed long to write down the notes that he made during Pc West's call. Take into account that Pc West was confident that he had spoken to Jeremy for less than a minute before contacting HQIR.

Why is it necessary to time how long it would take for West to read off everything to Bonnett?  You still seem under the delusion that the amount of time it takes somehow would impact your claim that Nevill phoned West after phoning Jeremy but it doesn't.  In the meantime you should have enough of a brain yourself to put together a conversation where West relays the information contained on Bonnett's sheet.  It should not take spoonfeeding.

He didn't know in advance how similar Jeremy's call would be to Nevill's. He probably let Bonnett do the dispatching.

Pc West was aware of both calls he took, but that didn't mean that he shouldn't try to contact Nevill. He did so and got the engaged tone, so he asked the operator to check the line. PC West didn't mention doing anything else after Jeremy's call ended and before trying the WHF line, so how come the line check occurred at 3:42am?


You seem to be in a different dimension than the rest of us.  Do you even realize how stupid your claims look?  Try to take a step back and look at this as if the following claims came from someone else instead of you:

Claims:

1) After phoning Jeremy Nevill phoned PC West.
2) PC West notified Bonnett of Nevill's call
3) Neither West nor Bonnett dispatched any police because Nevill told West he called Jeremy before calling police so they predicted Jeremy would call next and didn't know how similar Jeremy's call would be to Nevill's so instead if dispatching someone immediately they waited to hear Jeremy's account
4) Instead of West telling Jeremy that Nevill had already phoned and that he already knew everything, he pretended Nevill never called and took down all the information that he had alreayd obtained fro Nevill asking numerous questions he already knew the answers to and writing down the information a second time.  West did this in case police would want to conceal that a call had been made by Nevill so they could pin anything that might have happened on Jeremy.
5) West contacted Bonnett yet again this time to report Jeremy's call and this time they dispatched police to the scene
6) Even though West knew that Nevill used the phone after calling Jeremy and thus that is the reason the phone was busy when he tried to call and even though he knew the phone was not disconnected as a result of harm coming to Nevill he decided to phone th enumber anyway just to speak to Nevill to ask him how thing are going. 

If you ignore that you wrote it and look at it as an objective party can you honestly say your suggestions make sense?  Suggesting they decided to wait to dispatch police until after hearing from Jeremy might even be more absurd than claiming West wanted to conceal that Nevill called from Jeremy because maybe police would want to frame him.   

« Last Edit: September 18, 2014, 10:44:PM by scipio_usmc »
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Offline Alias

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Re: A Call To Essex Police From Neville? - The poll
« Reply #152 on: September 18, 2014, 10:50:PM »
Why is it necessary to time how long it would take for West to read off everything to Bonnett?  You still seem under the delusion that the amount of time it takes somehow would impact your claim that Nevill phoned West after phoning Jeremy but it doesn't.  In the meantime you should have enough of a brain yourself to put together a conversation where West relays the information contained on Bonnett's sheet.  It should not take spoonfeeding.

You seem to be in a different dimension than the rest of us.  Do you even realize how stupid your claims look? Try to take a step back and look at this as if the following claims came from someone else instead of you:

Claims:

1) After phoning Jeremy Nevill phoned PC West.
2) PC West notified Bonnett of Nevill's call
3) Neither West nor Bonnett dispatched any police because Nevill told West he called Jeremy before calling police so they predicted Jeremy would call next and didn't know how similar Jeremy's call would be to Nevill's so instead if dispatching someone immediately they waited to hear Jeremy's account
4) Instead of West telling Jeremy that Nevill had already phoned and that he already knew everything, he pretended Nevill never called and took down all the information that he had alreayd obtained fro Nevill asking numerous questions he already knew the answers to and writing down the information a second time.  West did this in case police would want to conceal that a call had been made by Nevill so they could pin anything that might have happened on Jeremy.
5) West contacted Bonnett yet again this time to report Jeremy's call and this time they dispatched police to the scene
6) Even though West knew that Nevill used the phone after calling Jeremy and thus that is the reason the phone was busy when he tried to call and even though he knew the phone was not disconnected as a result of harm coming to Nevill he decided to phone th enumber anyway just to speak to Nevill to ask him how thing are going. 

If you ignore that you wrote it and look at it as an objective party can you honestly say your suggestions make sense?  Suggesting they decided to wait to dispatch police until after hearing from Jeremy might even be more absurd than claiming West wanted to conceal that Nevill called from Jeremy because maybe police would want to frame him.

Why is this neccessary - why?

No-Bits

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Re: A Call To Essex Police From Neville? - The poll
« Reply #153 on: September 18, 2014, 10:55:PM »
Why is this neccessary - why?

Sorry Alias, I think Scipio has a point on this one.

Personally I think Reader is having a laugh at our expense and simply being obtuse.

It's like me trying to convince you that the moon is made of cheese, where as we know the reality.

Offline Alias

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Re: A Call To Essex Police From Neville? - The poll
« Reply #154 on: September 18, 2014, 11:01:PM »
Sorry Alias, I think Scipio has a point on this one.

Personally I think Reader is having a laugh at our expense and simply being obtuse.

It's like me trying to convince you that the moon is made of cheese, where as we know the reality.

OK, you like this tone.

No-Bits

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Re: A Call To Essex Police From Neville? - The poll
« Reply #155 on: September 18, 2014, 11:05:PM »
OK, you like this tone.

I can't here a tone.

I do think that Reader appears to be in another dimension to the rest of us, however I think he knows exactly how stupid his claims are, but is making them regardless.

I would be with you if Scipio was calling a reader an idiot, or whatever other derogatory terms he may decide to use. On this occasion, I can't see the complaint.

Offline Alias

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Re: A Call To Essex Police From Neville? - The poll
« Reply #156 on: September 18, 2014, 11:08:PM »
Boundaries of what is passable get moved with each and every remark like this - we have seen that.

No-Bits

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Re: A Call To Essex Police From Neville? - The poll
« Reply #157 on: September 18, 2014, 11:10:PM »
Boundaries of what is passable get moved with each and every remark like this - we have seen that.

Haha yes, I think I know that better than most.  :(

Offline maggie

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Re: A Call To Essex Police From Neville? - The poll
« Reply #158 on: September 19, 2014, 12:39:AM »
I can't here a tone.

I do think that Reader appears to be in another dimension to the rest of us, however I think he knows exactly how stupid his claims are, but is making them regardless.

I would be with you if Scipio was calling a reader an idiot, or whatever other derogatory terms he may decide to use. On this occasion, I can't see the complaint.
I think Reader is a she.

Offline maggie

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Re: A Call To Essex Police From Neville? - The poll
« Reply #159 on: September 19, 2014, 12:47:AM »
Why is this neccessary - why?
I agree Alias.
Scipio why d'you have to be so rude/abusive to Reader, she has as much rght to her opinion as anyone else. Just because you have a different opinion is no excuse to be abusive.

Offline Reader

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Re: A Call To Essex Police From Neville? - The poll
« Reply #160 on: September 19, 2014, 01:20:AM »
Why is it necessary to time how long it would take for West to read off everything to Bonnett?
It's not necessary, just part of providing a plausible conversation, which you are avoiding doing.

3) Neither West nor Bonnett dispatched any police because Nevill told West he called Jeremy before calling police . . .
No, Nevill probably didn't mention that to Pc West. Cars were already sent by Bonnett when Jeremy's unexpected call occurred. However, it took a while before the cars notified Bonnett that they were on their way.

6) . . . he knew the phone was not disconnected as a result of harm coming to Nevill
But he didn't know Nevill was still okay over 10 minutes later, so he tried to call him.

. . . can you honestly say your suggestions make sense?
Yes, they make sense, whereas you seem unable to provide the full detail of an alternative plausible scenario.

Suggesting they decided to wait to dispatch police until after hearing from Jeremy might even be more absurd
I didn't suggest that.

. . . claiming West wanted to conceal that Nevill called from Jeremy because maybe police would want to frame him.
I didn't suggest that either.

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: A Call To Essex Police From Neville? - The poll
« Reply #161 on: September 19, 2014, 02:45:AM »
It's not necessary, just part of providing a plausible conversation, which you are avoiding doing.

Yes, they make sense, whereas you seem unable to provide the full detail of an alternative plausible scenario.

It is easy to provide a plausible conversation between Bonnett and West there is no point served by doing so though so it would be a complete waste of my time to bother. 

No, Nevill probably didn't mention that to Pc West. Cars were already sent by Bonnett when Jeremy's unexpected call occurred. However, it took a while before the cars notified Bonnett that they were on their way.

The time on Bonnett's log notes the time the cars were notified and the police in those cars stated the reaosn they were notified.  The time of dispatch was after Jeremy called and the police all say they were told about Jeremy's call to police, none claim they were sent because Nevill had called police.

But he didn't know Nevill was still okay over 10 minutes later, so he tried to call him.

He noted the reason for callling the number was to check if it was busy like Jeremy claimed not to try speaking to Nevill himself.

I didn't suggest that.

Well what precisely did you mean by this?
"He didn't know in advance how similar Jeremy's call would be to Nevill's. He probably let Bonnett do the dispatching"

You said that in response to why wouldn't West tell Jeremy Nevill called and instead ask for all the same information again and why wouldn't police dispatch a car in response to Nevill's call.

Let's break your first claim down:

He didn't tell Jeremy about Nevill's call and asked for the same information because he didn't know in advance how similar their story would be.

This makes no sense at all.

Not only does it fail to provide any rational explanation for why he would not tell Jeremy that Nevill already called, it fails to address why he would ask Jeremy for information he already had.

At least a dozen times I have pointed out that mong other things West asked Jeremy for:

1) Nevill's address
2) Nevill's phone number
3) his sister's name
4) his sister's age
5) how many guns were in the house
6) how many people were at WHF

West already would have obtained all such information from Nevill had Nevill called.  So upon West learning that Jeremy wa sjust repeating the story Nevill had told him why would he then bother asking for all the same information he already had?

Your explanation doesn't address such it is little more than a pathetic attempt at an excuse which makes no sense. 

All you are doing is making up things which fail to address the challenges issued.  I challenged you as to why police did not dispatch cars as a result of Nevill's call if he had actually called.  The evidence demonstrates police were dispatched as a result of Jeremy's call.  You answered by saying you think Bonnett did the dispatching.  That was your excuse as to why West didn't dispatch someone in response to Nevill's call.  But the question was why didn't West or Bonnett do so. Your answer was nonresponsive.

In this past post you came up with a new claim.  You are trying tpo pretend that the cops were dispatched earlier than the logs indicate so you cna try to pretend that they were ordered to go to WHF before Jeremy called.

Your games just make you look silly. 


I didn't suggest that either.

Then was does this mean?

"Although Jeremy seemed straightforward, West couldn't know that he wouldn't later be accused of having hired someone to go to WHF and kill his family. There was no pressing need to tell him anything about Nevill's call, and doing so would have wasted time and gained nothing."

There is no valid reason at all for concealing from Jeremy that Nevill phoned earlier and contrary to your claim time would have been lossed by mentioning it- time would have been wasted by asking Jeremy for all the same informaiton he already obtained from Nevill such as Nevill's address, phone number etc.

You clearly suggested police would conceal the call from Nevill in case they later wanted to accuse him of being involved.  That suggests the intention to hide it completely to frame him.  What else could it mean?


Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: A Call To Essex Police From Neville? - The poll
« Reply #162 on: September 19, 2014, 02:58:AM »
Why is this neccessary - why?

Because the claims being made are outrageously ridiculous.

I'm not quite sure what is worse. Voting that Nevill made a call though knowing there is no rational basis to assert such and hiding when people ask those who voted that way to explain why they assert such or
to answer with tripe like Reader is doing.

Usually I give props to people for at least making an effort to try.  This is one of those rare occasions where the effort is so obviously poor that I actually think hiding would be better.

Just look at reader's response to the following and tell me you see a genuine effort:

West would have told Jeremy about Nevill's call.  Why would West bother asking Jeremy from the same exact  information again like the address of WHF, the phone number, Sheila's name and age etc if Nevill alreayd provided it.

Reader: "Although Jeremy seemed straightforward, West couldn't know that he wouldn't later be accused of having hired someone to go to WHF and kill his family. There was no pressing need to tell him anything about Nevill's call, and doing so would have wasted time and gained nothing."

West didn't tell him in case police wanted to later accuse him of being involved and thus wanted to keep it a secret that Nevill called that way police could say he had to be involved or he would not have known anything had happened?  That really sounds ok to you?

It saved time to not tell him Nevill called and to take down all the information already obtianed form Nevill instead of saying he already called so not bothering to take it all down again?

Reader's claims are something out of a universe where everything is the opposite of here.

Either reader needs to take a step back and look at the claims he/she is making or Harters is right that this is all just a game to reader and we are being toyed with.

Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline Reader

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Re: A Call To Essex Police From Neville? - The poll
« Reply #163 on: September 19, 2014, 04:01:AM »
It is easy to provide a plausible conversation between Bonnett and West there is no point served by doing so though so it would be a complete waste of my time to bother.
As anyone can discover by trying it, it's not easy at all.

The time on Bonnett's log notes the time the cars were notified and the police in those cars stated the reason they were notified.
Not so. For example, the statements of the police officers in car CA07 say they were contacted well before 3:35, and that they departed at 03:35.

The time of dispatch was after Jeremy called
In Bonnett's log, cars CA05 and CA07 departed at about the same time as Jeremy's call (as timed by Pc West). They were sent earlier as a result of Nevill's call.

He noted the reason for calling the number was to check if it was busy like Jeremy claimed
No, he said the reason for the check was to determine the reason for the line being busy. He didn't say that he hadn't tried calling the number or that he tried calling it because Jeremy had been unable to call Nevill back.

. . . instead ask for all the same information again
He didn't ask for all the same information again. Jeremy's assertion that Nevill had called him was new information. Much of the information was given by Jeremy before Pc West asked him for fine detail.

West already would have obtained all such information from Nevill had Nevill called.
If Nevill didn't mention Jeremy, Pc West wouldn't already know Jeremy's name, address or telephone number. It turned out that Jeremy apparently gave a different age for Sheila. Also, Jeremy used the word "crazy" whereas Nevill had used the word "berserk". Jeremy was giving new information, not just repeating Nevill's call.

I challenged you as to why police did not dispatch cars as a result of Nevill's call if he had actually called.
They did dispatch cars as a result of Nevill's call - CA07 and CA05. It's likely that Bonnett did the despatching.

. . . the cops were dispatched earlier than the logs indicate
The statements of the officers in car CA07 confirm they were contacted at about 3:30, 6 minutes before Jeremy's call, and that they subsequently departed at about 3:35, also before Jeremy's call.

West couldn't know that he wouldn't later be accused of having hired someone to go to WHF and kill his family.
That's true. I didn't say Pc West thought about that specific possibility. As Jeremy was calm, Pc West concentrated on responding to the call. Mentioning Nevill's call wasn't necessary.

Offline susan

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Re: A Call To Essex Police From Neville? - The poll
« Reply #164 on: September 19, 2014, 07:55:AM »
Maggie do you ever ask Jackie the same question as you have asked Scipio.  She is so rude to Caroline and Adam and harters is that OK with you..