why not wipe the gun.

[Jane]

ip he wipes the gun clean places it in sheilas hands there will be sheilas prints on it he doesn't have to tell them who loaded it he can say to his knowledge it wasn't or dident see the gun so he doesn't know loaded perfectly plausible explanation.

the police will probely assume sheila loaded it with only her prints on it what other conclusion can they come to.

Nugs, I think hindsight is a WONDERFUL thing. I wouldn't mind betting that Jeremy thinks so, too.

[Jane]

April  is nugnug winding me up

Susan, whilst I actually DO see where Nugs is coming from -and it WOULD have made more sense if it HAD been done that way- I have enough problems getting my head round what we've got, without trying to get it round what we MAY have had....................................IF you see what I mean :D :D :D

[nugnug]

Nugs, I think hindsight is a WONDERFUL thing. I wouldn't mind betting that Jeremy thinks so, too.

he would need hindsight to know he would be asked to explain anything.

it dosent take that much hindsight to know you shouldent leave your fingerprints on the murder weapon.

surely anyone with half a working brain knows its not a good idea to do that.

[Jane]

he would need hindsight to know he would be asked to explain anything.

it dosent take that much hindsight to know you shouldent leave your fingerprints on the murder weapon.

AH!! but it WASN'T a murder weapon when he -supposedly- BLOCK YOUR EARS, SUSAN!!!  went out to bang bunnies, at which point, he didn't -supposedly- know it was going to be.

[susan]

Hello April  I concede defeat you and nugnug are the winners I am a looser and now going to eat ginger perkins to celebrate your victory and think I am off rabbits for life

[nugnug]

why would anybody who was planning a murder deliberately leave there prints on the murder weapon nobody would.

[Jane]

why would anybody who was planning a murder deliberately leave there prints on the murder weapon nobody would.

D'ya know, Nugs, I've never actually got inside a murderer's mind so I can't give you an answer to that, but if Susan will allow me, I think I'll join her to eat ginger parkin and have a think about it. Like her, I'm becoming totally confused

[susan]

April rabbits rabbits rabbits  bet they would like ginger parkin but it is perkins I have just eaten.  Sorry all gone

[scipio_usmc]

jeremy bambers finger prints were found on the riffle he cliamed this was becouse he was shoting rabbits.

but if he was the killer surely  all he had to do was wipe the clean then place it in sheilas hand and only sheilas fingerprints would be on it.

that would make the case aginst sheila almost cast iron so why dident he.

How many times are you going to ask the same thing?  This was answered multiple times in the past.  You are as much of a broken record as Mike.  It seems that the same nonsense is raised over and over pretending it had not been discussed in the past.

He didn't want to have to search for the casings to wipe them down.  This story acocunted for if any of his prints were on the casings or the gun.

He tried to wipe down the gun before the murders but didn't know if he successfully eliminated them all or not and during the course of beating Nevill the stock breaking pulled his glove off and he though he touched the gun with his bare hand somewhere.  To wipe down the entire gun would result in all the blood being removed and whatever prints he tried staging prior to the murders. 

You make it sound like it is easy to just plant  aprint.  As was alreayd discussed in the past it is not that easy especially nto for someone dead.  They are dead so they are not sweating or exceting oils from their skin which are the main cause of prints.  The other cause is some foreign substance on the hands or on the object which faciliates a print being left.

You are suggesting that after Sheila was dead  he should have made the gun spotless so that there was no blood or anything on it then to try to plan her prints which would not be that easy in her dead state.   It woudl also be extremey suspicious and consistent with a frame job because it woudl be obvious that all blood and prints had been wiped.  Why would Sheila do that before killing herself?  It woudl be extreme evidence she was being framed.  Not even Jeremy wa sstupid enough to do that.  Be happy you are not a murderer because you would be caught even more easily than Jeremy.

[Jan]

I get totally where nug nugs is coming from

If he was wearing gloves he had no need for any of his prints to be on the gun and there were always guns around the house not locked up anyway - so by the story which you think he made up , he made things look more suspicious that they were.

She could have gone to either cupboard at anytime and picked up a gun .

I thought the glove story was him telling Julie ( allegedly ) that the hitmans glove had come off - so it would be his prints anyway not Jeremys.

Don't forget she told the N.O.W  that he never admitted he did it , ever.

[nugnug]

How many times are you going to ask the same thing?  This was answered multiple times in the past.  You are as much of a broken record as Mike.  It seems that the same nonsense is raised over and over pretending it had not been discussed in the past.

He didn't want to have to search for the casings to wipe them down.  This story acocunted for if any of his prints were on the casings or the gun.

He tried to wipe down the gun before the murders but didn't know if he successfully eliminated them all or not and during the course of beating Nevill the stock breaking pulled his glove off and he though he touched the gun with his bare hand somewhere.  To wipe down the entire gun would result in all the blood being removed and whatever prints he tried staging prior to the murders. 

You make it sound like it is easy to just plant  aprint.  As was alreayd discussed in the past it is not that easy especially nto for someone dead.  They are dead so they are not sweating or exceting oils from their skin which are the main cause of prints.  The other cause is some foreign substance on the hands or on the object which faciliates a print being left.

You are suggesting that after Sheila was dead  he should have made the gun spotless so that there was no blood or anything on it then to try to plan her prints which would not be that easy in her dead state.   It woudl also be extremey suspicious and consistent with a frame job because it woudl be obvious that all blood and prints had been wiped.  Why would Sheila do that before killing herself?  It woudl be extreme evidence she was being framed.  Not even Jeremy wa sstupid enough to do that.  Be happy you are not a murderer because you would be caught even more easily than Jeremy.

so his glove falls of and he hasnt got the brians to put it back on agian and wipe the gun so his prints arnt on it.

[scipio_usmc]

How would Neville have loaded the gun without leaving his finger prints on it and WHY would he have left a loaded gun laying around?

Plus if he did leave a print on the bullet casings then such story would fall apart even more.

The only way to account for no prints at all from Nevill anywhere are either the gun was wiped down before the murders or Nevill didn't use the weapon recently.  His story about Nevill using the gun repeatedly during the week before the murders and taking the scope and moderator off and putting them back on repeatedly during that week would surely result in prints being left.  But that story came about afte rpolice said the last known user of the weapon was Anthony.  He changed his story saying he used the gun repeatedly the week before the murders and so did Nevill precisely to prevent Anthony from being he last known user.  There is scant evidence Nevill used the rifle ever let alone much.  The only testimony of it being used by Nevill came from Jeremy.  It was only purchased November 30, 1984.  Nevill was no longe rinvolved in target shooting at this point.  He got the gun for Jeremy.  He had used 410 shotguns to shoot vermin for all of his time at WHF prior to buying the rifle and there is no evidence he stopped using it to shoot vermin and instead started using the rifle. 

Anythony said the gun was in brand new condition when he found it so he this betrays any suggestions the gun was being used constantly to shoot vermin during the course of the summer.  Anthony's prints and Jeremy's would be the ones most likely to be found.  He was known to try to get Sheila to handle the weapon maybe he got her to touch it and put her prints on it before the murders.  That in fact is what Julie wa sunde rth eimpression of because he told her he was scared they woudl realize his prints were more fresh than the ones planted.  That suggests he made an attempt to planted her prints before. That doesn't mean he was successful though.  He was known to try to get her to handle to magazine, probably to get her prints on it.     

Saying he handled the gun right before the murders was  a very simple way to account for any of his prints being found on the casings or the gun in case he left a print on it.  Having to wipe off all the blood etc so the gun is immaculate before killing Sheila (which is the only way to be sure he would have gotten rid of all potential prints of his) would be extremely suspicious and in effect give away that she was being framed. In hindsight we know tha tno prints were on the casings but he didn't know that at the time and could not be sure so his story also helped out in that regard.  Imagine if his print had been found on a casing, that would be extremely damning.  Claiming he loaded the magazine before was a brilliant way to blunt such.

 

[nugnug]

I get totally where nug nugs is coming from

If he was wearing gloves he had no need for any of his prints to be on the gun and there were always guns around the house not locked up anyway - so by the story which you think he made up , he made things look more suspicious that they were.

She could have gone to either cupboard at anytime and picked up a gun .

I thought the glove story was him telling Julie ( allegedly ) that the hitmans glove had come off - so it would be his prints anyway not Jeremys.

Don't forget she told the N.O.W  that he never admitted he did it , ever.

im glad somone can

[susan]

Scipio thank you for clarifying the situation regarding prints on the rifle

[nugnug]

Plus if he did leave a print on the bullet casings then such story would fall apart even more.

The only way to account for no prints at all from Nevill anywhere are either the gun was wiped down before the murders or Nevill didn't use the weapon recently.  His story about Nevill using the gun repeatedly during the week before the murders and taking the scope and moderator off and putting them back on repeatedly during that week would surely result in prints being left.  But that story came about afte rpolice said the last known user of the weapon was Anthony.  He changed his story saying he used the gun repeatedly the week before the murders and so did Nevill precisely to prevent Anthony from being he last known user.  There is scant evidence Nevill used the rifle ever let alone much.  The only testimony of it being used by Nevill came from Jeremy.  It was only purchased November 30, 1984.  Nevill was no longe rinvolved in target shooting at this point.  He got the gun for Jeremy.  He had used 410 shotguns to shoot vermin for all of his time at WHF prior to buying the rifle and there is no evidence he stopped using it to shoot vermin and instead started using the rifle. 

Anythony said the gun was in brand new condition when he found it so he this betrays any suggestions the gun was being used constantly to shoot vermin during the course of the summer.  Anthony's prints and Jeremy's would be the ones most likely to be found.  He was known to try to get Sheila to handle the weapon maybe he got her to touch it and put her prints on it before the murders.  That in fact is what Julie wa sunde rth eimpression of because he told her he was scared they woudl realize his prints were more fresh than the ones planted.  That suggests he made an attempt to planted her prints before. That doesn't mean he was successful though.  He was known to try to get her to handle to magazine, probably to get her prints on it.     

Saying he handled the gun right before the murders was  a very simple way to account for any of his prints being found on the casings or the gun in case he left a print on it.  Having to wipe off all the blood etc so the gun is immaculate before killing Sheila (which is the only way to be sure he would have gotten rid of all potential prints of his) would be extremely suspicious and in effect give away that she was being framed. In hindsight we know tha tno prints were on the casings but he didn't know that at the time and could not be sure so his story also helped out in that regard.  Imagine if his print had been found on a casing, that would be extremely damning.  Claiming he loaded the magazine before was a brilliant way to blunt such.

he doesnt need to acount for anything if he makes it makes it look convincingly like a suicide wich he would of done if theres was only sheilas prints on there wich there would be if he wiped the gun.

why would he wears gloves if he was going to leave his prints there anyway.