Dodgy guns - handed to Bunting by two unidentified men

[paulg]

So guns had already been fired to make the 20 bore hot?  I doubt Nevill would be made to anything, even with a gun to his head, if his family was lying dead around him.

So the .22 is considered to small to cause the ring marks?

[chochokeira]

So guns had already been fired to make the 20 bore hot?  I doubt Nevill would be made to anything, even with a gun to his head, if his family was lying dead around him.

So the .22 is considered to small to cause the ring marks?

If the killer had a gun to Sheila's neck and said: phone Jeremy, he would have had no choice but to phone.

[paulg]

But its Nevill with the ring marks!! The guns been fired, people are lying dead or dying!!

[chochokeira]

But its Nevill with the ring marks!! The guns been fired, people are lying dead or dying!!

We don't know at what stage Nevill sustained the ring mark burns. He could even have been having a look around the grounds after hearing noises before any killngs began when this gun was pressed against his neck.

If it was towards the end of the massacre and the killer/s was/ were threatening Sheila - probably the last to be killed? - I believe Nevill would have done what they wanted in an attempt to save her.

[ngb1066]

So guns had already been fired to make the 20 bore hot?  I doubt Nevill would be made to anything, even with a gun to his head, if his family was lying dead around him.

So the .22 is considered to small to cause the ring marks?

I have not seen photographs of the burn marks to Nevill's neck but from the description of them they seem to be too big to have been caused by contact with a .22 rifle barrel, although I could be wrong on that.  If a silencer was attached to the rifle the contact area would of course have been bigger, but I am not sure whether the end of the silencer would become hot enough to cause a burn as the silencer itself has a secondary effect of dissipating heat.  I can if necessary test that later to see how hot the end of a silencer becomes after 15 - 20 shots have been fired within a short period.

 

[chochokeira]

But its Nevill with the ring marks!! The guns been fired, people are lying dead or dying!!

We don't know at what stage Nevill sustained the ring mark burns. He could even have been having a look around the grounds after hearing noises before any killngs began when this gun was pressed against his neck.

If it was towards the end of the massacre and the killer/s was/ were threatening Sheila - probably the last to be killed? - I believe Nevill would have done what they wanted in an attempt to save her.

How do we know there weren't two killers, Paul?

[chochokeira]

So guns had already been fired to make the 20 bore hot?  I doubt Nevill would be made to anything, even with a gun to his head, if his family was lying dead around him.

So the .22 is considered to small to cause the ring marks?

I have not seen photographs of the burn marks to Nevill's neck but from the description of them they seem to be too big to have been caused by contact with a .22 rifle barrel, although I could be wrong on that.  If a silencer was attached to the rifle the contact area would of course have been bigger, but I am not sure whether the end of the silencer would become hot enough to cause a burn as the silencer itself has a secondary effect of dissipating heat.  I can if necessary test that later to see how hot the end of a silencer becomes after 15 - 20 shots have been fired within a short period.

Probably a stupid question but, would it be possible to heat the end of the barrel of shotgun, say on an Aga, merely to use it to torture someone?

[chochokeira]

So guns had already been fired to make the 20 bore hot?  I doubt Nevill would be made to anything, even with a gun to his head, if his family was lying dead around him.

So the .22 is considered to small to cause the ring marks?

I have not seen photographs of the burn marks to Nevill's neck but from the description of them they seem to be too big to have been caused by contact with a .22 rifle barrel, although I could be wrong on that.  If a silencer was attached to the rifle the contact area would of course have been bigger, but I am not sure whether the end of the silencer would become hot enough to cause a burn as the silencer itself has a secondary effect of dissipating heat.  I can if necessary test that later to see how hot the end of a silencer becomes after 15 - 20 shots have been fired within a short period.

Probably a stupid question but, would it be possible to heat the end of the barrel of shotgun, say on an Aga, merely to use it to torture someone?

Because I'm still thinking about that field of opium poppies Nevill had.

[ngb1066]

So guns had already been fired to make the 20 bore hot?  I doubt Nevill would be made to anything, even with a gun to his head, if his family was lying dead around him.

So the .22 is considered to small to cause the ring marks?

I have not seen photographs of the burn marks to Nevill's neck but from the description of them they seem to be too big to have been caused by contact with a .22 rifle barrel, although I could be wrong on that.  If a silencer was attached to the rifle the contact area would of course have been bigger, but I am not sure whether the end of the silencer would become hot enough to cause a burn as the silencer itself has a secondary effect of dissipating heat.  I can if necessary test that later to see how hot the end of a silencer becomes after 15 - 20 shots have been fired within a short period.

Probably a stupid question but, would it be possible to heat the end of the barrel of shotgun, say on an Aga, merely to use it to torture someone?

Yes, it would be quite easy to do.

[paulg]

Keira, think about the telephone call Jeremy says he received.

Now if someone wanted him (Jeremy)at the WHF, they wouldn't tell Nevill to say "sister has gone crazy with gun". Just a simple, i need help Jeremy, sister fallen downstairs or something.

If Nevill was asked to say what he supposedly said, then the killer would be an absolute idiot, as police would be at WHF within minutes.

So 2 killers? Highly highly unlikely.

Shotgun warmed up as a torture weapon?? Using a lighter or lit cigarette would be easier.

NGB: I'd like to know if the silencer gets hot, so go for it.

And on the burn marks, if something hot is pressed into skin, it leaves a bigger burn as skin is wrapped around the hot object. Try pressing a blunt object into your skin, see how much skin comes into contact with the object.

[chochokeira]

Keira, think about the telephone call Jeremy says he received.

Now if someone wanted him (Jeremy)at the WHF, they wouldn't tell Nevill to say "sister has gone crazy with gun". Just a simple, i need help Jeremy, sister fallen downstairs or something.

If Nevill was asked to say what he supposedly said, then the killer would be an absolute idiot, as police would be at WHF within minutes.

So 2 killers? Highly highly unlikely.

Shotgun warmed up as a torture weapon?? Using a lighter or lit cigarette would be easier.

NGB: I'd like to know if the silencer gets hot, so go for it.

And on the burn marks, if something hot is pressed into skin, it leaves a bigger burn as skin is wrapped around the hot object. Try pressing a blunt object into your skin, see how much shin comes into contact with the object.

Good points. Though I'm unconvinced that a cigarette or lighter would be easier, especially if you don't smoke.

[chochokeira]

Keira, think about the telephone call Jeremy says he received.

Now if someone wanted him (Jeremy)at the WHF, they wouldn't tell Nevill to say "sister has gone crazy with gun". Just a simple, i need help Jeremy, sister fallen downstairs or something.

If Nevill was asked to say what he supposedly said, then the killer would be an absolute idiot, as police would be at WHF within minutes.

So 2 killers? Highly highly unlikely.

Shotgun warmed up as a torture weapon?? Using a lighter or lit cigarette would be easier.

NGB: I'd like to know if the silencer gets hot, so go for it.

And on the burn marks, if something hot is pressed into skin, it leaves a bigger burn as skin is wrapped around the hot object. Try pressing a blunt object into your skin, see how much shin comes into contact with the object.

Good points. Though I'm unconvinced that a cigarette or lighter would be easier, especially if you don't smoke.

And "highly Unlikely" is weak reasoning.

[paulg]

Keira, think about the telephone call Jeremy says he received.

Now if someone wanted him (Jeremy)at the WHF, they wouldn't tell Nevill to say "sister has gone crazy with gun". Just a simple, i need help Jeremy, sister fallen downstairs or something.

If Nevill was asked to say what he supposedly said, then the killer would be an absolute idiot, as police would be at WHF within minutes.

So 2 killers? Highly highly unlikely.

Shotgun warmed up as a torture weapon?? Using a lighter or lit cigarette would be easier.

NGB: I'd like to know if the silencer gets hot, so go for it.

And on the burn marks, if something hot is pressed into skin, it leaves a bigger burn as skin is wrapped around the hot object. Try pressing a blunt object into your skin, see how much shin comes into contact with the object.

Good points. Though I'm unconvinced that a cigarette or lighter would be easier, especially if you don't smoke.

And "highly Unlikely" is weak reasoning.

No, but highly highly unlikely is ok. 

[chelmsey]

But remember,there were no burn or scorch marks on his pyjamas.

[Paul]

But its Nevill with the ring marks!! The guns been fired, people are lying dead or dying!!

We don't know at what stage Nevill sustained the ring mark burns. He could even have been having a look around the grounds after hearing noises before any killngs began when this gun was pressed against his neck.

If it was towards the end of the massacre and the killer/s was/ were threatening Sheila - probably the last to be killed? - I believe Nevill would have done what they wanted in an attempt to save her.

How do we know there weren't two killers, Paul?

Hi Chochokeira

Could you list your version of events - makes it easier to follow with reference to when you think it started, who was involved, when the other killer escaped?