Surely The Timings Are Incorrect?

[Caroline]

the Dickinson report said it was west that West made the mistake - and yet I always thought it was Bonnet that was put on the spot.

after reading that I am more confused than ever.

It was West, he even says that it was possible he made a mistake.

[Caroline]

  I haven't answered your questions because I couldn't possibly know, although once the decision to frame an innocent man had been taken then the question of why the call would be kept secret answers itself.
     Why they would frame an innocent man is a question I can only speculate on, but innocent men have been knowingly framed so many times that I fail to see why you consider this a valid argument.
     So in your scenario what proportion of the force knew he was framed but were ok about it because they knew him to be guilty? And exactly how did they know he was guilty because if the evidence was fabricated then what did they base their certainty on? A hunch, gut feeling what?
      Where was the sarcasm by the way; I must have missed it. All I could see was a claim that EP couldn't have framed JB because half the force would know about his father's call and that for this reason my claims lacked credibility.
      It is clear that it would make no difference to the police response whether the call was 999 or not; the details of the incident are the same either way and that is what informs the response not the number dialled.
     
   

Of course innocent men have been knowingly framed - but how many have been framed when they have known who the guilty party was at the beginning of an investigation?

[Caroline]

Am I missing something - if they framed him because they KNEW  100% he was guilty - then they would not need to frame him because the would have the evidence/ proof  anyway ? 

Or if they framed him because they THOUGHT he was guilty - then they did not have enough evidence, and needed to frame him to get a conviction and therefore they could have been wrong and they were actually framing an innocent man?


Excuse me if I am not making sense , had a stressful day in the office

But as gringo points out innocent men have been framed before, police have falsified evidence many times when they have thought someone was guilty but didn't think they had enough to convict or wanted to be certain of a conviction. But where is there an example of someone being framed when the police are certain they were innocent because they knew who the culprit was?

[Caroline]

What was it that Taff whispered into RWB ear , ending with the word's ' now do you believe me ' ?

I dunno, what was it?

[Caroline]

Do you believe SJ went to the bank with JM ?

Why do you believe SJ interviewed JM so many times ?

Yes to your first point and I imagine she was being coached as a witness on the second but what's that got to do with the call supposedly made by Neville.

[Caroline]

the Dickinson report said it was west that West made the mistake - and yet I always thought it was Bonnet that was put on the spot.

after reading that I am more confused than ever.

West's own words

[jon]

I dunno, what was it?

I don't know , but was he told Neville called the police ? You have said Taff wanted the family of his
back , if SJ was prepared to set up JB , why would he not be prepared to hide the call from Neville ?
Also remember Taff believed SC was trying to get JB to WHF to kill him .

I personally think that the logs maybe altered in someway , i believe the originals should be produced for ESDA testing , the other log ( Tolleshunt ) as obviously been altered by someone somehow , all originals should be produced , EP should not have been allowed to fax a copy to JB .
Why would EP go to court to prevent producing a phone log , which as far as they and you are concerned , there is nothing to hide ?   

[jon]

Yes to your first point and I imagine she was being coached as a witness on the second but what's that got to do with the call supposedly made by Neville.

Why would anyone need coaching , regarding a story involving their boyfriend killing children , it would be clear as anything !!

[Caroline]

I don't know , but was he told Neville called the police ? You have said Taff wanted the family of his
back , if SJ was prepared to set up JB , why would he not be prepared to hide the call from Neville ?
Also remember Taff believed SC was trying to get JB to WHF to kill him .

I personally think that the logs maybe altered in someway , i believe the originals should be produced for ESDA testing , the other log ( Tolleshunt ) as obviously been altered by someone somehow , all originals should be produced , EP should not have been allowed to fax a copy to JB .
Why would EP go to court to prevent producing a phone log , which as far as they and you are concerned , there is nothing to hide ?

But all of that is speculation however, the times on the logs are tangible evidence and they don't add up. It's a fact that West's log states 03:36 and a fact that Bonnet's log states 03:26. This being the case the following can't make sense - Jeremy phones West @ 03:36, West passes details to Bonnet @ 03:26 - Which means he is passing on information from Jeremy 'before' Jeremy has even called. So West must have added the time later and Jeremy must have called west BEFORE 03:26. This being the case the suggestion that a car was sent to the scene prior to Jeremy's call doesn't work.

The logs you're talking about contain the same information but on some certain words have been spelled incorrectly. The allegation is that the time was altered from 03:26 to 36 but id Wst called Bonnet at 03:26, this allegation again - doesn't fit.

There is no evidence for a call from Neville, in fact the evidence (timings) suggests the opposite.

[jon]

But all of that is speculation however, the times on the logs are tangible evidence and they don't add up. It's a fact that West's log states 03:36 and a fact that Bonnet's log states 03:26. This being the case the following can't make sense - Jeremy phones West @ 03:36, West passes details to Bonnet @ 03:26 - Which means he is passing on information from Jeremy 'before' Jeremy has even called. So West must have added the time later and Jeremy must have called west BEFORE 03:26. This being the case the suggestion that a car was sent to the scene prior to Jeremy's call doesn't work.

The logs you're talking about contain the same information but on some certain words have been spelled incorrectly. The allegation is that the time was altered from 03:26 to 36 but id Wst called Bonnet at 03:26, this allegation again - doesn't fit.

There is no evidence for a call from Neville, in fact the evidence (timings) suggests the opposite.

You may well be right here , but isn't it convenient that the clock was ten minutes wrong ? What are the chances of that ? 9 minutes or 11 would be far more believable to me , it's as if everything was made to add up after the event to me . Going to court to prevent the log being produced and then faxing it , does not sit well with me , if you are correct why spend money on a court case ?

[Caroline]

You may well be right here , but isn't it convenient that the clock was ten minutes wrong ? What are the chances of that ? 9 minutes or 11 would be far more believable to me , it's as if everything was made to add up after the event to me . Going to court to prevent the log being produced and then faxing it , does not sit well with me , if you are correct why spend money on a court case ?

The clock wasn't wrong, West just added the time after the call instead of before. He actually says that that sometimes happens.

Not sure what you mean about 'preventing the log going to court'?

[jon]

The clock wasn't wrong, West just added the time after the call instead of before. He actually says that that sometimes happens.

Not sure what you mean about 'preventing the log going to court'?

EP went to court to prevent JB having access to one of the log's , if everything is in order in them all , why not just produce them all , at the outset ?

[Caroline]

EP went to court to prevent JB having access to one of the log's , if everything is in order in them all , why not just produce them all , at the outset ?

It depends which log?

[jon]

It depends which log?

Why shouldn't they have just been handed to the defence before the trial ? Edmund Lawson QC , claimed he had no recollection of the Bonnett log at trial .

[Caroline]

Why shouldn't they have just been handed to the defence before the trial ? Edmund Lawson QC , claimed he had no recollection of the Bonnett log at trial .

The Bonnet log was the one they used at trial - it's says so on Jeremy's website, it was Wests log that they found in 2004.