Author Topic: Surely The Timings Are Incorrect?  (Read 29847 times)

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Offline Caroline

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Re: Surely The Timings Are Incorrect?
« Reply #45 on: August 27, 2014, 04:35:PM »
I will be spoiling you and you're friend Caroline when I cook you both dinner soon. 

We can read Wilkes's book together afterwards. Lots of room on my sofa for three.

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Offline Caroline

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Re: Surely The Timings Are Incorrect?
« Reply #46 on: August 27, 2014, 04:40:PM »
Harters thanks for that what is getting to me he says he went outside to shoot rabbits then he added he was in a hurry to take the trailer to the combine if that was the case why waste time with a rifle and the pretext of shooting rabbis does not ring true at all to me.

When he eventually did take the trailer to the combine, he didn't wait and then bring it back, although he said he 'did some jobs'? Why didn't he wait for the trailer.? Would he really have left it, walked back and let his dad go back for it after 10pm?
« Last Edit: August 27, 2014, 04:46:PM by Caroline »
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No-Bits

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Re: Surely The Timings Are Incorrect?
« Reply #47 on: August 27, 2014, 04:59:PM »
When he eventually did take the trailer to the combine, he didn't wait and then bring it back, although he said he 'did some jobs'? Why didn't he wait for the trailer.? Would he really have left it, walked back and let his dad go back for it after 10pm?

I remember you asking before about the farm boundaries, you may have got them out of one of the books (Wilkes?), did it also refer to where the last trailer was located?

Offline Caroline

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Re: Surely The Timings Are Incorrect?
« Reply #48 on: August 27, 2014, 05:03:PM »
I remember you asking before about the farm boundaries, you may have got them out of one of the books (Wilkes?), did it also refer to where the last trailer was located?

I've posted a pic of the farm boundaries in the archives. But I guess you know why I was asking now. No, I can't find anything that indicates where the trailer was left but Jeremy said it was collected. However, I wonder 'who' collected it?
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No-Bits

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Re: Surely The Timings Are Incorrect?
« Reply #49 on: August 27, 2014, 05:06:PM »
I've posted a pic of the farm boundaries in the archives. But I guess you know why I was asking now. No, I can't find anything that indicates where the trailer was left but Jeremy said it was collected. However, I wonder 'who' collected it?

Which thread did you put it in, I'm not sure I've seen it? The photo's one by Abs?  ???

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: Surely The Timings Are Incorrect?
« Reply #50 on: August 27, 2014, 05:24:PM »
I'm making a separate thread for this because it's quite an important aspect (given the number of times it's been discussed).

The timings must surely be wrong? Bonnet actually states that he received a call from CD 1990 (West) at 03:26. If the call is being relayed to him by West at 03:26, Jeremy MUST have called 'before' then with enough time to explain to West his story and for West to have contacted Bonnet.

I agree that Jeremy had to have called police before 3:26.

This is one of those issues where Jeremy supporters though insisted Jeremy would not have been talking long to West.  I personally think it would have taken a couple of minutes or more to explain his story to West in full and to give West time to write it all down.  But others who want to pretend Jeremy was not on the phone long say otherwise. They suggest that Jeremy could have conveyed the message in mere seconds and that West could likewise have conveyed it to Bonnett is seconds.

The motivation of those who say he was not on the phone long is twofold:

1) to pretend he was off the phone very early on and that there was a later call to police from Nevill as opposed to his call with West ending 3:36.

2) The later the call ended the less the chance of his claim tha the called Julie after speaking to police being possible. 

While Jeremy's supporters say it is understandable for Jeremy not to be able to rememeber whether he phoned Julie before or after speaking to police that is ridiculous.  Jeremy slipped up during his interrogation and admitted that he phoned her before.  He soon reversed course insisting that was a mistake and maintained the call to Julie was after he phoned police.  On the one hand that looks bad because instead of rushing to WHF to try to check on his family and meet police he supposedly was calling Julie.  That doesn't exhibit the kind of concern someone would have if they actually received a call from Nevill like was claimed.  Another problem is that such a call could not have been made until after he was completely finished speaking to the police.  Surely his call to police did not end until after 3:30.  2 of Julie's roomates said the call came at 3AM and the third said 3:15 though under pressure said it could have been as late as 3:30.  None of them leave room for the call coming after 3:30 which would have to be the case if he called after speaking to police.

Furthermore, if his claims were true then he would have called to complain about the police.  Yet Julie did not recall him saying a thing about having phoned the police. This is a real problem because Jeremy's explanation of why he called Julie fell apart not just the timing of the call.

Jeremy was thus unable to give a credible reaosn for calling Julie.  His pretext for calling fell apart leaving bare his true motivation.  His true motivation for calling Julie was so that Julie could tell police that he called to say Nevill phoned and thus to bolster his account that he received a call from Nevill. There was no valid reaosn for calling her so it was just to bolster his claim he received a call from Nevill which is evidence that such a call was made up or he would not need to bolster his claim by phoning her.

Interestingly at trial Jeremy contradicted prior claims of immediately phoning police and testified that at first he did not think the situation was urgent and only after thinking for a while did he realize that the situation was urgent and that he should phone police.  So he didn't think things were urgent then why would he call Julie to wake her up? It makes no sense so he stuck at trial with the claim he phoned Julie after phoning the police.

If Nevill actually had called Jeremy he would not have phoned Julie at all and thus the fact he called her period is highly suspicious.

What would be the natural thing to do if actually receiving a call from a loved one like Jeremy claimed?

To either go right over or phone police and then go over.  After phoning police you might call other loved ones to inform them of the possible trouble or tell them to also meet you there because there is trouble but that depends on who else is nearby and their relationship that they would be so concerned about those in the house.  Such as calling a spouse of someone in the house if a spouse had not been there. SInce you were not positive that anything bad happened and thus uncertain you would nto want to worry people for no reason.  It would have to be inforing someone of possible trouble so they knew to be ready in case something bad happened so they woudl be ready to go at quick notice.

None of this is relevant to Julie. She didn't care about the family and waking her up just to tell her there could potentially be trouble makes no sense.  He ended up calling her at 6AM to tell her not to go to work because she would be needed to tell police about how he called her hours earlier to bolster his story that Nevill phoned him. Thus the second call is as suspicious as the 3AM call.  Jeremy supporters say that he knew they were dead at 6AM because there was no movement or response in the house (while at the same time maintaining he saw movement in various windows) so this is not proof he knew they were dead because he had killed them.  I think it is a big deal to tell his girlfriend that she needs to not go to work because she will need to tell police about his call to her.  that shows you how much be figured his call would matter and how his family's well being was not the main thing on his mind at 6AM but instead his mind was working on having her bolster the call from Nevill. That to me says volumes.

 
 
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Offline Caroline

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Re: Surely The Timings Are Incorrect?
« Reply #51 on: August 27, 2014, 07:26:PM »
Which thread did you put it in, I'm not sure I've seen it? The photo's one by Abs?  ???

Yes, hang on, will look for it.
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Offline Jan

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Re: Surely The Timings Are Incorrect?
« Reply #52 on: August 27, 2014, 07:29:PM »
Darn, think I'm washing my hair that night!

oh go on Caroline - you are one of the special few- Adam will only invite those to his sofa who agree with him and all of his many threads.  :)

Offline Caroline

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Re: Surely The Timings Are Incorrect?
« Reply #53 on: August 27, 2014, 07:31:PM »
I agree that Jeremy had to have called police before 3:26.

This is one of those issues where Jeremy supporters though insisted Jeremy would not have been talking long to West.  I personally think it would have taken a couple of minutes or more to explain his story to West in full and to give West time to write it all down.  But others who want to pretend Jeremy was not on the phone long say otherwise. They suggest that Jeremy could have conveyed the message in mere seconds and that West could likewise have conveyed it to Bonnett is seconds.

The motivation of those who say he was not on the phone long is twofold:

1) to pretend he was off the phone very early on and that there was a later call to police from Nevill as opposed to his call with West ending 3:36.

2) The later the call ended the less the chance of his claim tha the called Julie after speaking to police being possible. 

While Jeremy's supporters say it is understandable for Jeremy not to be able to rememeber whether he phoned Julie before or after speaking to police that is ridiculous.  Jeremy slipped up during his interrogation and admitted that he phoned her before.  He soon reversed course insisting that was a mistake and maintained the call to Julie was after he phoned police.  On the one hand that looks bad because instead of rushing to WHF to try to check on his family and meet police he supposedly was calling Julie.  That doesn't exhibit the kind of concern someone would have if they actually received a call from Nevill like was claimed.  Another problem is that such a call could not have been made until after he was completely finished speaking to the police.  Surely his call to police did not end until after 3:30.  2 of Julie's roomates said the call came at 3AM and the third said 3:15 though under pressure said it could have been as late as 3:30.  None of them leave room for the call coming after 3:30 which would have to be the case if he called after speaking to police.

Furthermore, if his claims were true then he would have called to complain about the police.  Yet Julie did not recall him saying a thing about having phoned the police. This is a real problem because Jeremy's explanation of why he called Julie fell apart not just the timing of the call.

Jeremy was thus unable to give a credible reaosn for calling Julie.  His pretext for calling fell apart leaving bare his true motivation.  His true motivation for calling Julie was so that Julie could tell police that he called to say Nevill phoned and thus to bolster his account that he received a call from Nevill. There was no valid reaosn for calling her so it was just to bolster his claim he received a call from Nevill which is evidence that such a call was made up or he would not need to bolster his claim by phoning her.

Interestingly at trial Jeremy contradicted prior claims of immediately phoning police and testified that at first he did not think the situation was urgent and only after thinking for a while did he realize that the situation was urgent and that he should phone police.  So he didn't think things were urgent then why would he call Julie to wake her up? It makes no sense so he stuck at trial with the claim he phoned Julie after phoning the police.

If Nevill actually had called Jeremy he would not have phoned Julie at all and thus the fact he called her period is highly suspicious.

What would be the natural thing to do if actually receiving a call from a loved one like Jeremy claimed?

To either go right over or phone police and then go over.  After phoning police you might call other loved ones to inform them of the possible trouble or tell them to also meet you there because there is trouble but that depends on who else is nearby and their relationship that they would be so concerned about those in the house.  Such as calling a spouse of someone in the house if a spouse had not been there. SInce you were not positive that anything bad happened and thus uncertain you would nto want to worry people for no reason.  It would have to be inforing someone of possible trouble so they knew to be ready in case something bad happened so they woudl be ready to go at quick notice.

None of this is relevant to Julie. She didn't care about the family and waking her up just to tell her there could potentially be trouble makes no sense.  He ended up calling her at 6AM to tell her not to go to work because she would be needed to tell police about how he called her hours earlier to bolster his story that Nevill phoned him. Thus the second call is as suspicious as the 3AM call.  Jeremy supporters say that he knew they were dead at 6AM because there was no movement or response in the house (while at the same time maintaining he saw movement in various windows) so this is not proof he knew they were dead because he had killed them.  I think it is a big deal to tell his girlfriend that she needs to not go to work because she will need to tell police about his call to her.  that shows you how much be figured his call would matter and how his family's well being was not the main thing on his mind at 6AM but instead his mind was working on having her bolster the call from Nevill. That to me says volumes.

 

It wouldn't matter how long Jeremy was on the phone because Bonnet recorded a time of 03:26, West obviously called Bonnet 'after' Jeremy had called and so Jeremy HAD to call at least four or five minutes before that. The time is clearly written on Bonnet's log, it also indicates that he took the call from CD1990, which was West's call number and NOT Neville Bamber. It is stretching the bounds of reality to suggest that Bonnet got the time wrong too and basically this kicks the idea that Neville called - straight out of the ball park (to coin an Americanism).
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Offline Caroline

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Re: Surely The Timings Are Incorrect?
« Reply #54 on: August 27, 2014, 07:32:PM »
oh go on Caroline - you are one of the special few- Adam will only invite those to his sofa who agree with him and all of his many threads.  :)

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Offline Caroline

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Re: Surely The Timings Are Incorrect?
« Reply #55 on: August 27, 2014, 07:38:PM »
Which thread did you put it in, I'm not sure I've seen it? The photo's one by Abs?  ???

It is in the pictures but it's part of a long picture thread, easier to just place a copy here. I looked up WHF on Google earth and just copied the boundry line from Wilkes's book. The line is still quite clear so can't have changed since Wilkes wrote the book.
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Offline maggie

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Re: Surely The Timings Are Incorrect?
« Reply #56 on: August 27, 2014, 07:42:PM »
It wouldn't matter how long Jeremy was on the phone because Bonnet recorded a time of 03:26, West obviously called Bonnet 'after' Jeremy had called and so Jeremy HAD to call at least four or five minutes before that. The time is clearly written on Bonnet's log, it also indicates that he took the call from CD1990, which was West's call number and NOT Neville Bamber. It is stretching the bounds of reality to suggest that Bonnet got the time wrong too and basically this kicks the idea that Neville called - straight out of the ball park (to coin an Americanism).
Hi Caroline, personally have never been convinced by the claim that Nevill called the police,  just too ambiguous imo.

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Re: Surely The Timings Are Incorrect?
« Reply #57 on: August 27, 2014, 07:45:PM »
It is in the pictures but it's part of a long picture thread, easier to just place a copy here. I looked up WHF on Google earth and just copied the boundry line from Wilkes's book. The line is still quite clear so can't have changed since Wilkes wrote the book.

Okay thanks. It's not that big an area really is it.  :-\

So the trailer wasn't far away.

Offline Caroline

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Re: Surely The Timings Are Incorrect?
« Reply #58 on: August 27, 2014, 07:47:PM »
Hi Caroline, personally have never been convinced by the claim that Nevill called the police,  just too ambiguous imo.

Hi Maggie, the timings just don't match and that claim that a car was already on the way to the scene 'before' Jeremy' called is also false because we know Jeremy MUST have called a lot earlier than 03:36am. I think West must have been a bit illiterate and maybe that's why more than one copy of his log exists, he just kept spelling things wrong and didn't even manage to get the time right. I think West is the one who was reprimanded because his testimony was a bit of a shambles.
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Offline Caroline

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Re: Surely The Timings Are Incorrect?
« Reply #59 on: August 27, 2014, 07:48:PM »
Okay thanks. It's not that big an area really is it.  :-\

So the trailer wasn't far away.

Far enough.
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