Chelmsford police station control room clocks

[No-Bits]

According to his statement of 15 August 1985, Pc Myall was on duty at about 3.45 a.m. when sent to WHF, yet Malcolm Bonnett logged car CA07 as departing at 3.35 a.m.

Regarding overtaking Jeremy, the same statement gives "we had cause to overtake a Vauxhall Astra, silver in colour. There was one person, the driver, in the vehicle, which was travelling in the same general direction as us at a speed of about 30 m.p.h. We passed this vehicle, the only other vehicle we had seen on route, and continued to White House Farm."

The statement makes no mention of Jeremy driving slowly, pulling over, or stopping/parking before being overtaken. It mentions Jeremy was wearing "two crew neck jumps", but makes no mention of Jeremy saying he was cold. Also, it makes no mention of the later 'trick of the light' incident. It states that Ps Bews called for armed assistance before he approached the house a second time.

According to the same statement, the kitchen light was on and two first floor rooms on the same side of the farmhouse also had a light on, behind closed orange and green curtains respectively. It also states that the centre first floor room at the front of the house (seen from a new position and described as the side of the house) had its curtains open and light on. It then states "From our position, it appeared that all doors and windows were shut and secure."

Thus, there are various things in his statement that are not consistent with what you suggested occurred and with later information from the police.

Do you have a link for the statement made by Ps Bews on 16th August 1985? I'm not sure whether it's been made public. Ps Bews made a later statement, dated 19 September, 1985, that attempted to estimate that Jeremy was travelling at no more than 20 mph when overtaken, but the arithmetic in that statement was incorrect, and anyway relied on a rough estimate of the time that elapsed between when the police parked and when Jeremy caught up with them. It's interesting, however, that it suggests the police averaged over 70mph on their final mile to WHF. Being driven at that kind of speed (the maximum safely achievable) for about 13 minutes at night would almost certainly increase blood adrenalin level considerably, and so I wouldn't consider a casual estimate of how long it then took for Jeremy to catch up with the police to be reliable.

According to Pc Saxby's statement of 23 September, 1985, Jeremy was travelling "at a speed I would estimate being no more than 30 mph".

Does anybody have page 2 of Pc Saxby's statement? Only pages 1, 3 and 4 seem to have been posted by mike tesko.

You can attempt to manipulate the timings as much as you like, the reality that Jeremy called the police at 3:26 and that Nevill most certainly did not contact the police, remains the same.

[scipio_usmc]

A "lawyer" from USA who suddenly knows EVERYTHING about a 30 year old case from England, has GOT to make you go hmmmm, why the F does he care?
Just saying.

P.S. culprit already locked up for life. What is the point? Everything is fine, why use hour after hour convincing nobodies he´s guilty? I just don´t get it!

I never said I know everything. I know what can be gleemed from the evidence merely.

You still seem bitter that so much of what you have spouted over the years was wrong including your claim that Sheila had complained about her medication causing insomnia though in fact she complained about it making her tired and sleepy. 

It is not my fault that you blindly believed many of the claims of Jeremy defenders and parroted them only to find out the evidence says something else.  Be mad at those who lied ot you instea dof those who showed you the truth.     

[Alias]

I never said I know everything. I know what can be gleemed from the evidence merely.

You still seem bitter that so much of what you have spouted over the years was wrong including your claim that Sheila had complained about her medication causing insomnia though in fact she complained about it making her tired and sleepy. 

It is not my fault that you blindly believed many of the claims of Jeremy defenders and parroted them only to find out the evidence says something else.  Be mad at those who lied ot you instea dof those who showed you the truth.   

Well, I am not blind, and certainly not bitter (you are nuts!) - I did see with my own eyes in the Dr statement that she complained of sleepiness. Which is no wonder, she was on a dose of more than 400 mgs per month, which is a crazy high dose.
She was not on such a high dose at the time of the murders - she would have had about 50 mgs in her system. A big difference.
In reality we don´t know her state at the time of the murders. Her bed hadn´t been slept in and she had possibly taken a bite to eat later than the rest of her family.
Those things point to her having been restless.
I am waiting for your spiteful, nasty answer. 

[scipio_usmc]

According to his statement of 15 August 1985, Pc Myall was on duty at about 3.45 a.m. when sent to WHF, yet Malcolm Bonnett logged car CA07 as departing at 3.35 a.m.

Regarding overtaking Jeremy, the same statement gives "we had cause to overtake a Vauxhall Astra, silver in colour. There was one person, the driver, in the vehicle, which was travelling in the same general direction as us at a speed of about 30 m.p.h. We passed this vehicle, the only other vehicle we had seen on route, and continued to White House Farm."

The statement makes no mention of Jeremy driving slowly, pulling over, or stopping/parking before being overtaken. It mentions Jeremy was wearing "two crew neck jumps", but makes no mention of Jeremy saying he was cold. Also, it makes no mention of the later 'trick of the light' incident. It states that Ps Bews called for armed assistance before he approached the house a second time.

According to the same statement, the kitchen light was on and two first floor rooms on the same side of the farmhouse also had a light on, behind closed orange and green curtains respectively. It also states that the centre first floor room at the front of the house (seen from a new position and described as the side of the house) had its curtains open and light on. It then states "From our position, it appeared that all doors and windows were shut and secure."

Thus, there are various things in his statement that are not consistent with what you suggested occurred and with later information from the police.

Do you have a link for the statement made by Ps Bews on 16th August 1985? I'm not sure whether it's been made public. Ps Bews made a later statement, dated 19 September, 1985, that attempted to estimate that Jeremy was travelling at no more than 20 mph when overtaken, but the arithmetic in that statement was incorrect, and anyway relied on a rough estimate of the time that elapsed between when the police parked and when Jeremy caught up with them. It's interesting, however, that it suggests the police averaged over 70mph on their final mile to WHF. Being driven at that kind of speed (the maximum safely achievable) for about 13 minutes at night would almost certainly increase blood adrenalin level considerably, and so I wouldn't consider a casual estimate of how long it then took for Jeremy to catch up with the police to be reliable.

According to Pc Saxby's statement of 23 September, 1985, Jeremy was travelling "at a speed I would estimate being no more than 30 mph".

Does anybody have page 2 of Pc Saxby's statement? Only pages 1, 3 and 4 seem to have been posted by mike tesko.

Bews made 5 statements in 1985.  For some reason many statements are not posted on this site. Mike seems to post something he thinks he can manipulate.

The police thought he simply let them pass but then it took him several minutes to pull up though he should have been able to do that last mile in less than a minute.

Jeremy is the one who claimed he had pulled over. He took a great deal of time to arrive after police had passed him and had claimed he pulled over because he was cold and put a jacket or sweater on.  What he was actually doing who knows.

The point is that instead of being in a hurry as he should have been he made sure police were there for several minutes before he pulled up thouhg he was a mile away when they passe dhim and should have arrived inside a minute.

[Jane]

Which on its own isn't so strange. Harters has suggested that Nevill ran downstairs because he feared for his life. Totally appropriate under the circumstances, IMO. I don't think it was too strange for Jeremy to let the police pass and give them time to sort things out before he arrived.......................guilty or innocent, I think he'd have been scared.

[lookout]

I think if we were all honest,none of us would have exactly broken our necks to have got there for fear of what we may have found. I'd have been very cautious and would have approached with much trepidation.

[lookout]

Which,as I've said before,would prove that Jeremy was scared of his own shadow,so how on earth could he possibly mow down 5 relatives ?

[Jane]

Which,as I've said before,would prove that Jeremy was scared of his own shadow,so how on earth could he possibly mow down 5 relatives ?

Sadly, Lookout, it could equally well mean he was scared they's find out that he had. There are COUNTLESS things about the case which work in the same way whether he's guilty or innocent and therefore can't be used in isolation.

[lookout]

Sadly, Lookout, it could equally well mean he was scared they's find out that he had. There are COUNTLESS things about the case which work in the same way whether he's guilty or innocent and therefore can't be used in isolation.

Yes,I understand,April.

[scipio_usmc]

Well, I am not blind, and certainly not bitter (you are nuts!) - I did see with my own eyes in the Dr statement that she complained of sleepiness. Which is no wonder, she was on a dose of more than 400 mgs per month, which is a crazy high dose.
She was not on such a high dose at the time of the murders - she would have had about 50 mgs in her system. A big difference.
In reality we don´t know her state at the time of the murders. Her bed hadn´t been slept in and she had possibly taken a bite to eat later than the rest of her family.
Those things point to her having been restless.
I am waiting for your spiteful, nasty answer. 

She was administered her medication monthly not every 2 weeks so the dosage was 200MG not 400MG.  She still complained to acquaintances about being sleepy and tired after being injected with 100MG, including on the night of the murders when she put down the phone without saying goodbye to go to bed around 10PM.

The bed had indentations from being slept in, whether she was so tired she went to bed without getting under the covers or Jeremy pulled up the covers to make it appear she didn't sleep is unclear. The police said it looked like someone slept on top of the covers.

I fail to see any advantage in trying to pretend she didn't sleep given how late he claimed the incident happened. His story has enough problems without the added problem of claiming she had never gone to bed at all that night.  Jeremy alleged Nevill phoned him at 3:15AM to say at that point in time Sheila was in a crazy rage and running around with a rifle.  What would she have been doing between 10PM and 3AM if never going to bed?  Why would she be up all that time and while everyone is in bed suddenly go into a rage and decide to go kill them all?       

Cases where family members are killed always include some kind of dispute with the family which results in the actions not the schizophrenic going around killing everyone in their beds which is a planned execution.

Those with schizophrenia who kill usually have history of violence BEFORE they develop schizophrenia or become violent while on drugs or alcohol.  In virtually all cases of murder the killer stopped  his/her medication or wasn't being successfully treated.  This all cautions against Sheila being the killer as does the fact she didn't evne know how to use the murder weapon and had no interest in guns. She would have picked a different weapon.  But the most important evidence to look at is the physical evidence.

The notion the blood shot all over the rifle as Nevill was being beaten but none got on the killer's clothing is simply not credible.  Nor is it credible Sheila would not have been injured during the course of brekaing the but of the rifle against Nevill's head, she woudl have been holding the stock where it broke. Nor is it credible she would not have gotten any GSR on her body or clothing.  But worse yet, she can't have killed herself and then after she was dead put the moderator away, moved her body flat and then put the bible in a pool of her own blood that formed after her death.

[Alias]

She was administered her medication monthly not every 2 weeks so the dosage was 200MG not 400MG.  She still complained to acquaintances about being sleepy and tired after being injected with 100MG, including on the night of the murders when she put down the phone without saying goodbye to go to bed around 10PM.

The bed had indentations from being slept in, whether she was so tired she went to bed without getting under the covers or Jeremy pulled up the covers to make it appear she didn't sleep is unclear. The police said it looked like someone slept on top of the covers.

I fail to see any advantage in trying to pretend she didn't sleep given how late he claimed the incident happened. His story has enough problems without the added problem of claiming she had never gone to bed at all that night.  Jeremy alleged Nevill phoned him at 3:15AM to say at that point in time Sheila was in a crazy rage and running around with a rifle.  What would she have been doing between 10PM and 3AM if never going to bed?  Why would she be up all that time and while everyone is in bed suddenly go into a rage and decide to go kill them all?       

Cases where family members are killed always include some kind of dispute with the family which results in the actions not the schizophrenic going around killing everyone in their beds which is a planned execution.

Those with schizophrenia who kill usually have history of violence BEFORE they develop schizophrenia or become violent while on drugs or alcohol.  In virtually all cases of murder the killer stopped  his/her medication or wasn't being successfully treated.  This all cautions against Sheila being the killer as does the fact she didn't evne know how to use the murder weapon and had no interest in guns. She would have picked a different weapon.  But the most important evidence to look at is the physical evidence.

The notion the blood shot all over the rifle as Nevill was being beaten but none got on the killer's clothing is simply not credible.  Nor is it credible Sheila would not have been injured during the course of brekaing the but of the rifle against Nevill's head, she woudl have been holding the stock where it broke. Nor is it credible she would not have gotten any GSR on her body or clothing.  But worse yet, she can't have killed herself and then after she was dead put the moderator away, moved her body flat and then put the bible in a pool of her own blood that formed after her death.

Fortnightly means every two weeks as far as I am informed. 200 mg injections fortnightly = more than 400 mgs per month.
She had this crazy high dose for a period of time.

Dr: Ferguson:

[scipio_usmc]

Which on its own isn't so strange. Harters has suggested that Nevill ran downstairs because he feared for his life. Totally appropriate under the circumstances, IMO. I don't think it was too strange for Jeremy to let the police pass and give them time to sort things out before he arrived.......................guilty or innocent, I think he'd have been scared.

I don't know anyone who would sit on the side of the road for several minutes to wait for police to sort things out instead of staying on their butt to see what police do and talk to them about the situation and try to go up to the house to at least look in the windows.

[Jane]

She was administered her medication monthly not every 2 weeks so the dosage was 200MG not 400MG.  She still complained to acquaintances about being sleepy and tired after being injected with 100MG, including on the night of the murders when she put down the phone without saying goodbye to go to bed around 10PM.

The bed had indentations from being slept in, whether she was so tired she went to bed without getting under the covers or Jeremy pulled up the covers to make it appear she didn't sleep is unclear. The police said it looked like someone slept on top of the covers.

I fail to see any advantage in trying to pretend she didn't sleep given how late he claimed the incident happened. His story has enough problems without the added problem of claiming she had never gone to bed at all that night.  Jeremy alleged Nevill phoned him at 3:15AM to say at that point in time Sheila was in a crazy rage and running around with a rifle.  What would she have been doing between 10PM and 3AM if never going to bed?  Why would she be up all that time and while everyone is in bed suddenly go into a rage and decide to go kill them all?       

Cases where family members are killed always include some kind of dispute with the family which results in the actions not the schizophrenic going around killing everyone in their beds which is a planned execution.

Those with schizophrenia who kill usually have history of violence BEFORE they develop schizophrenia or become violent while on drugs or alcohol.  In virtually all cases of murder the killer stopped  his/her medication or wasn't being successfully treated.  This all cautions against Sheila being the killer as does the fact she didn't evne know how to use the murder weapon and had no interest in guns. She would have picked a different weapon.  But the most important evidence to look at is the physical evidence.

The notion the blood shot all over the rifle as Nevill was being beaten but none got on the killer's clothing is simply not credible.  Nor is it credible Sheila would not have been injured during the course of brekaing the but of the rifle against Nevill's head, she woudl have been holding the stock where it broke. Nor is it credible she would not have gotten any GSR on her body or clothing.  But worse yet, she can't have killed herself and then after she was dead put the moderator away, moved her body flat and then put the bible in a pool of her own blood that formed after her death.

Scipio, the law of averages allows for you getting some facts right but can you point me to exactly WHERE Nevill told Jeremy that Sheila was in a crazy rage and running around with a rifle.

That she put a phone down without saying good-night ISN'T necessarily an indication of tiredness. It could just as easily have been an indication of irritation.

[Jane]

I don't know anyone who would sit on the side of the road for several minutes to wait for police to sort things out instead of staying on their butt to see what police do and talk to them about the situation and try to go up to the house to at least look in the windows.

That only tells me you either don't have a wide range of acquaintances OR you're not in the habit of having intimate and truthful conversations with them. If Nevill ran downstairs because he feared for his life it had to have been possible for Jeremy, guilty or innocent, to have made damned certain that he didn't get there ahead of the police.

[scipio_usmc]

Fortnightly means every two weeks as far as I am informed. 200 mg injections fortnightly = more than 400 mgs per month.
She had this crazy high dose for a period of time.

No she didn't. He wasn't the one injecting it. The doctors actually injecting her were doing so once a month only.  That is where a rational person looks when they want to knwo what she was given- the injeciton dates and dosages from the people actually doing it.

I already addressed this claim when you and others mad eit in the past.  Ferguson messed up when he said fortnightly.  In his September 1985 statement he corrected himself and said monthly:



You keep saying you are being picked on but the truth is you constantly make the same errors and have to keep having them corrected.