Author Topic: Grannie Speakman :  (Read 12608 times)

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Offline nugnug

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Re: Grannie Speakman :
« Reply #90 on: August 09, 2014, 11:20:PM »
not the ones i meett.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2014, 11:21:PM by nugnug »

Offline Caroline

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Re: Grannie Speakman :
« Reply #91 on: August 09, 2014, 11:21:PM »
No you are mistaking politicians for religious people- they are the ones who want to use other people's money. Religious people devote their time and money to helping others.   

Errrm, maybe in the states but that's not really the case here.
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Offline Jan

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Re: Grannie Speakman :
« Reply #92 on: August 09, 2014, 11:23:PM »
Ultimately this was the cause of the murders.  He didn't like farming but didn't want to go work and make his own way so killing them for everything they owned was the only way he was getting the easy life. People like him typically blow through all the the money they stole then have to either find a new victim or a dead end job and meager existence they hate.




sounds a wee bit drastic to me  :-\  If they were that free and easy with their money and  I am sure they would have supported him in another venture. Better than risking 5 life terms.




Offline Caroline

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Re: Grannie Speakman :
« Reply #93 on: August 09, 2014, 11:28:PM »
Ultimately this was the cause of the murders.  He didn't like farming but didn't want to go work and make his own way so killing them for everything they owned was the only way he was getting the easy life. People like him typically blow through all the the money they stole then have to either find a new victim or a dead end job and meager existence they hate.




sounds a wee bit drastic to me  :-\  If they were that free and easy with their money and  I am sure they would have supported him in another venture. Better than risking 5 life terms.

To me too but it does happen.
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Offline Jan

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Re: Grannie Speakman :
« Reply #94 on: August 09, 2014, 11:31:PM »
To me too but it does happen.

I would still love to read some of the statements of other people that knew the family to get a bigger picture . Mrs Boutell only gave one interview did she?

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: Grannie Speakman :
« Reply #95 on: August 09, 2014, 11:45:PM »
That's not always the case Scipio, in fact  where I live (Co. Durham) the opposite is often true and religious folk can be quite puritanical. I imagine the hand outs came at a cost ie. constant reminders and threats to cut him off if he didn't toe the line.

You seem to be confusing charity and being a sucker.

Helping someone get on their feet and helping them in other wasy such as building a school or library is one thing (our parish helped build a school in kenya and library in a poor coal area in West Virginia, we donated money from our own pockets and actually traveled to do the building) 

Providing all the money they need to live so they can just sit around doing nothing in life is different that is foolishness and doesn't help teach anyone anything except being helpless. Helping people help hemselves is one thing.  Just supporting them completely so they can do nothing in life except take is something different.

There were no hotels we had to stay with people when we did the construction.  They returned out kindness with food and shelter while doing the work so that way they could give us something as well. When people are willing to help themselves and use what you give them to improve their lot in life you don't mind helping them.

Our diocese has a place that takes in unwed pregnant women.  Obviously it is a sin to ge tpregnant while unwed but it is considered a greats in to kill and abortion is considered killing to the Church.  It provides room and board and while there they learn parenting skills, obtain materials to use for the babies and stay there until such time as they are able to live on their own with their babies or the babies are adopted in those cases where they give the babies up.  We constantly take up donations not only for extra money to provide for the institution but also collect goods like diapers, toiletries, and anyhting the mothers use themselves. 

People can say this is bribery to prevent them from getting abortions and worse they are preached to while there. You can't expect a Church to hand out money for abortions they are opposed to.  For those girls who want to keep their children this presents an option for them- an option they otherwise woudl not have available,  many of them have bad home lifes and their parents or the men who got them pregnant want them to get abortions.  Even if you are not religious you should realize their are mental problems women face from having abortions down the road and the child certainly will be better off being born than aborted.

There is a similar place to help people with drug addictions. 

The whole reason these religious charities are needed is because government charities are insufificent and that is why private charities are needed.  While the wealthy are busy dealing with charities of the arts and donating moneys to rich schools that leaves the charities run by the masses like religious entities to try to deal with the problems average people or desperate people face.

Those who don't truly want to be helped can't be helped. There ar epeopel who want to dirng and do drugs who reject efforts to give them food and try to clean them up.  They want money to suit their addictions and if you won't help feed their additctions you are no good to them.

You can't help people unless they are willing to help themselves and accept help as a step to doing that.
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline Caroline

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Re: Grannie Speakman :
« Reply #96 on: August 10, 2014, 12:08:AM »
You seem to be confusing charity and being a sucker.

Helping someone get on their feet and helping them in other wasy such as building a school or library is one thing (our parish helped build a school in kenya and library in a poor coal area in West Virginia, we donated money from our own pockets and actually traveled to do the building) 

Providing all the money they need to live so they can just sit around doing nothing in life is different that is foolishness and doesn't help teach anyone anything except being helpless. Helping people help hemselves is one thing.  Just supporting them completely so they can do nothing in life except take is something different.

There were no hotels we had to stay with people when we did the construction.  They returned out kindness with food and shelter while doing the work so that way they could give us something as well. When people are willing to help themselves and use what you give them to improve their lot in life you don't mind helping them.

Our diocese has a place that takes in unwed pregnant women.  Obviously it is a sin to ge tpregnant while unwed but it is considered a greats in to kill and abortion is considered killing to the Church.  It provides room and board and while there they learn parenting skills, obtain materials to use for the babies and stay there until such time as they are able to live on their own with their babies or the babies are adopted in those cases where they give the babies up.  We constantly take up donations not only for extra money to provide for the institution but also collect goods like diapers, toiletries, and anyhting the mothers use themselves. 

People can say this is bribery to prevent them from getting abortions and worse they are preached to while there. You can't expect a Church to hand out money for abortions they are opposed to.  For those girls who want to keep their children this presents an option for them- an option they otherwise woudl not have available,  many of them have bad home lifes and their parents or the men who got them pregnant want them to get abortions.  Even if you are not religious you should realize their are mental problems women face from having abortions down the road and the child certainly will be better off being born than aborted.

There is a similar place to help people with drug addictions. 

The whole reason these religious charities are needed is because government charities are insufificent and that is why private charities are needed.  While the wealthy are busy dealing with charities of the arts and donating moneys to rich schools that leaves the charities run by the masses like religious entities to try to deal with the problems average people or desperate people face.

Those who don't truly want to be helped can't be helped. There ar epeopel who want to dirng and do drugs who reject efforts to give them food and try to clean them up.  They want money to suit their addictions and if you won't help feed their additctions you are no good to them.

You can't help people unless they are willing to help themselves and accept help as a step to doing that.

I'm not confusing anything , it's just things don't operate the same here as they do in the states. Sure we have charitable people, however, they aren't necessarily religious. Religion is fairly big in the US but Sunday services are dying on their knees here - cept when Songs of Praise is being filmed!!  ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: Grannie Speakman :
« Reply #97 on: August 10, 2014, 12:27:AM »
Ultimately this was the cause of the murders.  He didn't like farming but didn't want to go work and make his own way so killing them for everything they owned was the only way he was getting the easy life. People like him typically blow through all the the money they stole then have to either find a new victim or a dead end job and meager existence they hate.


sounds a wee bit drastic to me  :-\  If they were that free and easy with their money and  I am sure they would have supported him in another venture. Better than risking 5 life terms.

Maybe they would have subsidized him for a while if he had some other profession in mind and needed help. The only thing he seemed interested in besides spending money was growing and selling drugs but it doesn't seem like he put in the effort there either to be anything but small potatoes.  I don't see any evidence of him building up a lucrative drug business.

Since he didn't try his hand at anything else we have no way to know what their reaction would have been.



   
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline Adam

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Re: Grannie Speakman :
« Reply #98 on: August 10, 2014, 08:27:AM »
Anyway. The thread request was asking for a source, document saying Jeremy was going to inherit a substantial amount from Mabel Speakman, if everyone else was still alive. And that Jeremy was aware of this. 

If there is proof and Jeremy was aware, then I would agree that it would be irrational for him to commit the massacre. Unless MS was in great shape and may have lived another 5/10 years.

No evidence has been provided. So please, no more claims from Jeremy supporters saying he did not need to commit the massacre.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2014, 08:53:AM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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Re: Grannie Speakman :
« Reply #100 on: August 10, 2014, 08:51:AM »
MS's will just highlights why Jeremy would commit the massacre.

Jeremy was a very slippery character, so I wouldn't put it past him to have found out what was in MS's will. He knew about Neville's will & that June was planning to amend her will. If he did know he was not included, it would just increase his desire to commit the massacre.

If he had not seen the will, he would assume the worst. If MS had a good relationship with June & her sister, there is no reason why they should be bypassed for Jeremy. Increasing his desire to commit the massacre.

If MS was in good shape, she may have lived several more years. Increasing his desire to commit the massacre.

With everyone removed, Jeremy would inherit all of MS's estate in the future. June & Neville not having the chance to spend it. Increasing his desire to commit the massacre.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2014, 09:03:AM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline JackiePreece

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Re: Grannie Speakman :
« Reply #101 on: August 10, 2014, 09:08:AM »
Maybe they would have subsidized him for a while if he had some other profession in mind and needed help. The only thing he seemed interested in besides spending money was growing and selling drugs but it doesn't seem like he put in the effort there either to be anything but small potatoes.  I don't see any evidence of him building up a lucrative drug business.

Since he didn't try his hand at anything else we have no way to know what their reaction would have been.



   

Maybe???

Exactly you don't know

You don't know anything for sure
Quote

I wish I had that much time as you do hating and wasting time !
You must have a very productive life

Try spending 24 hours just quoting facts

You can't can you?

As for Mugfords NOW deal, as you know if Jeremy had been found not guilty the deal would have been off because the now and Mugford could have been sued
"No hour of life is wasted that is spent in the saddle" Winston Churchill

Offline lookout

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Re: Grannie Speakman :
« Reply #102 on: August 10, 2014, 09:10:AM »
 Jeremy may have known what was in everyones' wills,,but he'd have also known that he WOULDN'T have received a penny with a murder charge hanging over him,,so just WHAT would have been the point of him murdering his family ?? There's no logic in it at all !!

He'd have had to have been stark raving mad,,and of that,he's not been proved so.

Offline Caroline

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Re: Grannie Speakman :
« Reply #103 on: August 10, 2014, 09:45:AM »
Jeremy may have known what was in everyones' wills,,but he'd have also known that he WOULDN'T have received a penny with a murder charge hanging over him,,so just WHAT would have been the point of him murdering his family ?? There's no logic in it at all !!

He'd have had to have been stark raving mad,,and of that,he's not been proved so.

He didn't bank on being caught and again 'psychopathy' is not insanity.
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Offline Adam

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Re: Grannie Speakman :
« Reply #104 on: August 10, 2014, 09:45:AM »
Jeremy may have known what was in everyones' wills,,but he'd have also known that he WOULDN'T have received a penny with a murder charge hanging over him,,so just WHAT would have been the point of him murdering his family ?? There's no logic in it at all !!

He'd have had to have been stark raving mad,,and of that,he's not been proved so.

Perhaps Jeremy believed he would not be charged.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.