Why would he?

[grahameb]

Jeremy's best option was to phone the police and create the siege situation.

Threads already created.

That statement Adam has precisely nothing to do with what I just posted. Wanna try again?

[Adam]

These were his options:

1: 

Jeremy to have coffee & brekkie with the family. Before starting work. 

This is unlikely. 

Jeremy likes to give the impression he had a nice family supper on the massacre night. However it is well known he did not like and resented his family. The evening supper was Jeremys chance to case the joint, make sure everyone was sleeping at WHF that night, load the rifle and insinuate Sheila later by mentioning the fostering conversation. . 

So it is unlikely breakfast and coffee at WHF was going to happen in the morning before work. 

2: 

Jeremy to meet Neville on site at the farm first thing in the morning.  Neville to instruct Jeremy what to do for the day. 

This is more likely. They were both working long hours at the time. 


3: 

Jeremy knew what he had to do on the farm. So just had to get on with it without meeting anyone beforehand.  

Again possible. Jeremy was an experienced farmer. 


It would be good to establish what the normal routine was at the time first thing in the morning. To see if there was a way Jeremy would not look suspicious. 

If it was 1 or 2, it would help explain why Jeremy made up the call, as Jeremy was going to be the first person supposed to meet Neville/the family. 

If it was 3, Jeremy could claim ignorance and let someone else find the bodies. Providing other people were due at WHF that morning. And had keys to let themselves in and find the bodies. That would not totally rule Jeremy out. As he was outside, nearby on WHF farm land, probably before anyone else as farmers are early starters. 

The farm workers or family may know what the normal routine was. 

It would be hard for Jeremy to avoid being first on the scene or look suspicious.  He worked there and it was his family. 

At least the phone call to the police intially put Jeremy sleeping 'like a log' at home. And arriving after the police

[scipio_usmc]

Hello Caroline I agree with all the points in your post butI  do try and figure out why he told Julie anything at all was he just acting the big man and showing off.

Jeremy was an immature, insecure, baby and thus even after the murders toyed with police but before he long complained to her and even his potential future mother in law about his family.  She was one of the witnesses who testified about how he complained about them and hated them.  People who are secure don't need to open up to others with their problems especially just petty griping but he did and she wanted to share his excitement at the thought of killing them with someone and Julie was his confidant- maybe Collins was as well we have no way to know. 

Private people tend to get away with more crimes than people like Jeremy but physical evidence can still trip them up.  Still plenty of people who admitted what they have done were not betrayed till after they are dead or after the evidence is so old that the authorities cannot try them and some never betrayed.  Even though there is no statute of limitations for murder, witnesses die and the evidence of the confession is often not considered enough.  DNA or the like usually is not available. So being betrayed decades later often results in no charges.

It takes discipline for a killer not to brag. In OJ Simpson's book he wrote if he had done the murders this is how he would have done it...Even professional killers sometimes liek to brag about their exploits.  The ones ashamed often down brag though they might eventually seek counseling and open up or confess to a priest.




 

[grahameb]

I'll try again Adam:
How could a non alibi be an alibi? If it is not accepted by others then surely it must have occerred to him that it would be a crap alibi. I cannot see any way he could call that an alibi. Has he at any time used the word alibi in regard to the phone call? Or has he at any point used the phone call as a means of defense in order to try and prove that he didn't kill his family?

[Adam]

As everyone knows, Jeremy went for the double alibi attempt. Asking the police to pick him up.

Thread already created.

[nugnug]

if he had really told mugfored all she cliamed we wouldent ask her to provide him  with an albi.

[grahameb]

As everyone knows, Jeremy went for the double alibi attempt. Asking the police to pick him up.

Thread already created.

Please answer my question Adam...Post created....Twice.

[Adam]

This is from the double alibi thread.

Two more important discoveries have been made in the last two days.

Jeremy's best option after committing the massacre was to phone the police at 3.30am.  Another poster said Jeremy usually had breakfast at WHF, so being a farmer and early starter, he would have discovered the bodies. At best he would have been on WHF land for several hours when someone else discovered the bodies. So much better to phone the police and create a big siege scene outside WHF.

The other discovery is there was no valid reason why Jeremy would ask the police to pick him up. The only reason given was he was afraid of little Sheila. So why did Neville phone him and ask him to 'come quickly'  ? Jeremy could have driven and waited 50 yards from WHF in his car. Until the police arrive. Sheila would not even know Jeremy was there. The police agreed, telling Jeremy to make his own way to WHF.

So it is clear Jeremy went after a double alibi. Trying to show he had been at home all night.

Jeremy could make sure he was seen putting on his clothes when the police arrive. Looking worried and as if he had just woken up. On the journey he could start his speech about Neville's phone call and insinuating Sheila. All this is better than the police refusing Jeremy's request and passing an almost static Jeremy on the way. It is helping Jeremy to convincingly lead the police into a direction.

Everything would happen as it did on that fateful day once everyone was at the scene. Everything would still happen afterwards, with Julie breaking, suspicious relatives, Jeremy's callous behaviour and a found silencer.

At trial, the police will testify that they picked up Jeremy at home. They may say Jeremy was half dressed and looked worried. So far, so good. Much better than Jeremy being overtaken on the way.

However the police could also testify that Jeremy asked them to pick him up. Why ? The prosecution will ask. Jeremy being at home at 3.30 does not give him an alibi for the 11pm - 3am period.

If Jeremy had been successful in his double alibi attempt, would it have made a difference ?

[nugnug]

As everyone knows, Jeremy went for the double alibi attempt. Asking the police to pick him up.

Thread already created.

thats not an albi he needs one for the whole night.

[Adam]

thats not albi he needs one for the whole night.

But he can't get one. Why ?

Must dash. A lady to cook for.

[lookout]

Jeremy was an immature, insecure, baby and thus even after the murders toyed with police but before he long complained to her and even his potential future mother in law about his family.  She was one of the witnesses who testified about how he complained about them and hated them.  People who are secure don't need to open up to others with their problems especially just petty griping but he did and she wanted to share his excitement at the thought of killing them with someone and Julie was his confidant- maybe Collins was as well we have no way to know. 

Private people tend to get away with more crimes than people like Jeremy but physical evidence can still trip them up.  Still plenty of people who admitted what they have done were not betrayed till after they are dead or after the evidence is so old that the authorities cannot try them and some never betrayed.  Even though there is no statute of limitations for murder, witnesses die and the evidence of the confession is often not considered enough.  DNA or the like usually is not available. So being betrayed decades later often results in no charges.

It takes discipline for a killer not to brag. In OJ Simpson's book he wrote if he had done the murders this is how he would have done it...Even professional killers sometimes liek to brag about their exploits.  The ones ashamed often down brag though they might eventually seek counseling and open up or confess to a priest.

I wouldn't have thought that an immature,insecure baby would even think about slaughtering 5 members of his family somehow.  He'd be a quivering wreck just thinking about it,let alone carrying it out.

[nugnug]

But he can't get one. Why ?

Must dash. A lady to cook for.

why couldent he have aranged one with julie if had really told was going to do it.

he could have easly got an albi if he had known he was going to need one.

[grahameb]

But he can't get one. Why ?

Must dash. A lady to cook for.

Because innocent men don't need alibis. Jeremy made no mention of any kind of alibi. It is only the gulters and the cops who have used that expression in regard to Bamber.

[Caroline]

How do you explain the scratches on the mantle?

I imagine whoever planted the silencer evidence made them.

[nugnug]

Because innocent men don't need alibis. Jeremy made no mention of any kind of alibi. It is only the gulters and the cops who have used that expression in regard to Bamber.

surely he would of asked julie mugford to provide with one way in advance.