Jeremy's Debts

[Alias]

Found this:

The 5 Stages of Grief are not intended to be worked through and “checked off,” like a list. Rather, they are guideposts, helping us identify and understand what we may be feeling. Not everyone will experience every stage, and many people will go through the stages in a different order. In general, however, grief will include the following 5 phases.

http://www.drchristinahibbert.com/dealing-with-grief/5-stages-of-grief/

[maggie]

Found this:
The 5 Stages of Grief are not intended to be worked through and “checked off,” like a list. Rather, they are guideposts, helping us identify and understand what we may be feeling. Not everyone will experience every stage, and many people will go through the stages in a different order. In general, however, grief will include the following 5 phases.
http://www.drchristinahibbert.com/dealing-with-grief/5-stages-of-grief/

Many people's first reaction is to laugh, others will talk about day to day stuff ie. The weather, anything, they sometimes concentrate on totally irrelevant details, shock is totally
unpredictable and such behaviour should never be judged.
I would imagine Nevill was a huge figure in Jeremy's life, not just in stature but as a personality, I'm not surprised he couldn't grasp the fact he was dead.
 

[Jane]

Personally I don´t think you can expect rational reactions in a situation like that. I try to imagine the chaos of the whole scene, the horrid message- it would take some time to really sink in.
His accusation that the police had killed everyone wasn´t rational either.
His first reaction was anger, and true, normally you have denial first, but no two people react the same.

P.S. I am not an expert on this, but isn´t shock and grieving different? There are these "Five stages of Grief", where denial is the first reaction, and anger the second - but what about shock?

Alias, when I was training we referred to it as loss and bereavement. the general assumption is that we grieve for people but if you've ever lost a favourite book/piece of jewellery/pet goldfish/purse, that dull ache, which most of us experience every time the lost item comes to mind, is no different from that gut wrenching pain we experience when we grieve for our loved ones. It is grief.

The Kubler Ross model gives us 5 stages: denial,anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance (all of which can be broken in to sub sections) and as you say, the stages don't conveniently go 1 through 5, they can take place in any order and for any period of time. There is no set time, the process CAN go on for a life time. Time DOESN'T heal, it just puts the pain in a place where we can hopefully cope with it better.

[lookout]

 Losing his dad would have had more of an impact than people would have imagined,Maggie.

[grahameb]

I know it sounds weird Caroline but after seeing how some people behave when faced with a sudden death of a relative, shock certainly ha strange effects on we humans, I believe any behaviour is possible.

It isn't strange at all. When my grandmother lost her daughter she did and said all kinds of wierd things, she put saly in tead instead of sugar. She saw her daughter at the bottom of her bed etc. Possibly Jeremy said something like, "I don't believe you. I want to speak to my father"? In fact he said this more than once. It is called "denial". Quite a normal response if you ask me and in my opinion it is one of those reactions that tell me that Bamber is innocent?

[nugnug]

well losing your mum and your dad and your sister in one night thats going to do all sorts of things to your mind.

[mertol22]

I don't see what difference having debts really makes  to the case  if he was it was not unique I understand a cabinet minister is in money trouble to the tune of nearly £60,000  making the figures here peanuts.

[grahameb]

I don't see what difference having debts really makes  to the case  if he was it was not unique I understand a cabinet minister is in money trouble to the tune of nearly £60,000  making the figures here peanuts.

I really cannot see that £500,000 could every be a motive for murdering one's whole family? Jeremy was living quite contented in his little cottage in Goldhanger rent free. I simply cannot believe he would murder his family as this would mess all that up. His cottage would have to be sold in order to form part of the estate. Out of all that death duties must be paid. And if Basil Cock was right the company was in massive debt anyway. So there was absolutely no sense at all for Bamber to commit such a crime.

[Caroline]

I know it sounds weird Caroline but after seeing how some people behave when faced with a sudden death of a relative, shock certainly ha strange effects on we humans, I believe any behaviour is possible.

I have have experienced sudden death (as you know) which is why I think his behaviour (although I admit it is described by others) as weird.

[grahameb]

I have have experienced sudden death (as you know) which is why I think his behaviour (although I admit it is described by others) as weird.

I suppose a lot depends on a person's constitution? Not everyone reacts in the same way to these things.

[scipio_usmc]

I really cannot see that £500,000 could every be a motive for murdering one's whole family? Jeremy was living quite contented in his little cottage in Goldhanger rent free. I simply cannot believe he would murder his family as this would mess all that up. His cottage would have to be sold in order to form part of the estate. Out of all that death duties must be paid. And if Basil Cock was right the company was in massive debt anyway. So there was absolutely no sense at all for Bamber to commit such a crime.

HIs family was indeed worth close to 500,000 pounds and that is 500,000 pounds he would have instead of his family so that he could move to London and live the good life instead of the crappy place he lived which he did not like. Your version where he was so content and happy is a fantasy version of your own making not reality.

[maggie]

I have have experienced sudden death (as you know) which is why I think his behaviour (although I admit it is described by others) as weird.

I know Caroline just believe it's hard to judge reactions at that time because everyone behaves differently. For all that, I cannot be sure myself 

[lookout]

well losing your mum and your dad and your sister in one night thats going to do all sorts of things to your mind.

Indeed,nugs,but he relied so much on his dad for guidance towards the business side of farming as well as the graft that went with it. Neville was a larger than life figure in Jeremys' life. He was in Sheilas' too.

[Caroline]

It isn't strange at all. When my grandmother lost her daughter she did and said all kinds of wierd things, she put saly in tead instead of sugar. She saw her daughter at the bottom of her bed etc. Possibly Jeremy said something like, "I don't believe you. I want to speak to my father"? In fact he said this more than once. It is called "denial". Quite a normal response if you ask me and in my opinion it is one of those reactions that tell me that Bamber is innocent?

To me, it sounds like over egging. Even when I thought he was innocent, when I read that, it made me cringe.

Why do people insist of judging this man on what he said in a stressful situation such as he found himself. These in my opinion were actions and words of an innocent man.

Because they think he was over doing things and because they think he's guilty - why would they have sympathy for someone they think murdered 5 people? I'm still not 100% sure but I lean more to it every day.

[grahameb]

HIs family was indeed worth close to 500,000 pounds and that is 500,000 pounds he would have instead of his family so that he could move to London and live the good life instead of the crappy place he lived which he did not like. Your version where he was so content and happy is a fantasy version of your own making not reality.

My version took into account that the company R & J Bamber were in debt according to Basil Cock. Plus I took into consideration death duties that must be paid before any inheritance could take place. Also Jeremy didn't know for sure what other members of the family would inherit from the Bamber estate. I doubt very much if Jeremy would have ended up with 500,000 grand? In fact if you read what the relatives said they inherited it was a very small sum indeed.