Author Topic: Jeremy's Debts  (Read 18838 times)

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Offline grahameb

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Re: Jeremy's Debts
« Reply #105 on: July 28, 2014, 07:32:PM »
maybe it hadent sunk in that his father was dead.
What Jeremy did was not faked in my opinion. It was complete confusion and it is not fair for people to keep sniping at him when obviously he was in a state of shock. Good grief how people can be so hard hearted is beyond me, reading some of the distasteful remarks I am reading tonight by obviously biased people. Come obn folks let's see a bit of open mindedness for a change.

Offline maggie

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Re: Jeremy's Debts
« Reply #106 on: July 28, 2014, 07:42:PM »
Especially since he didn't try speaking to his father from outside when he allegedly thought they were still alive and just hung around outside talking about cars.
He didn't  'hung around talking about cars' he was upset and the police spoke to him trying to distract him from the situation and what was going on around him. That is where the 'story' about the Porsche came from when Jeremy told them he wanted to buy a kit car.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2014, 07:44:PM by maggie »

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: Jeremy's Debts
« Reply #107 on: July 28, 2014, 07:47:PM »
That is just utter crap. You can make up things like that til your heart's content. But it has nothing to do with the evidence you always claim to make your decisions on. That remark comes from complete bias.

What am I making up?  I see you are back to Team Jeremy again by the way,

Fact:  Jeremy did not go to WHF right away like an average person receiving such a message would do (and many would call police then immediately go) but rather TESTIFIED he did not feel the call was urgent and thus at first did basically nothing.  In fact he didn't do nothing though he phoned Julie to have a witness who could say, "he told me he received a call from his father" so that police would think well maybe he really did receive it since he told a third party at the time that he had. 20 minutes after calling her he finally called police and claimed as time went on he realized it was urgent so that is when he called them. 

FACT: after claling police did he go to WHF?  No he waited in the phone hoping that the cops would arrive and could then report to them what they had found.  The dispatcher told him to go to WHF to meet police so that is what reuslte din him going.

FACT: he was known to fly there in 5 minutes.  Did he drive fast and then go knock on the door or climb through a window like he knew how to do?  No he drove as slow as dirt and when he saw police approaching he pulled to the side of the road so they could beat him there.  He was a mile away only and he stopped so they coudl go first.  Instead of immediately getting on their tale he stayed and waited a while so tha the could pull up several minutes later.

FACT: he did not try to go in or even to look in the windows but rather stayed a distance fromt he house.

FACT: instead of ever telling police he knew a way to quietly enter through the windows he said the place would be solidly bolted up and lied about how leaving out a weapon and bullets before going home and how he had taught Sheila to shoot that weapon and that she coudl use eveyr weapon in the house.

FACT: instead of ever trying to call into the house using the megaphone to speak to his family he just chatted with police about guy stuff until he decided to pretend he was upset.  At that point he claimed he wa supset and need to talk to his girl for comfort but used the time instead to tell her not to go to work because he wanted to use her as a witness to corroborate he recieved a call from Nevill.

FACT: he never exhibited any survivor's guilt at all let alone any guilt or sorrow at allegedly leaving out the murder wepaon and bullets and thus being responsible.

Those making excuses for Jeremy in this regard are all so full of crap that they need an enema.  They would be screaming form the rooftops if julie or someone else they did not like acted in such regard.

There is no way to seriously deny his actions do not match what someone in his place would have done.

When you look at the actual evidence proving he staged the bullets and lied about eveyrthing and SHeial coudl not have killed anyone else and could not have killed herself then it is easy to see why he acted in such an odd manner- he killed them.


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Offline grahameb

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Re: Jeremy's Debts
« Reply #108 on: July 28, 2014, 07:48:PM »
He didn't 'hang about talking about cars' he was upset and the police spoke to him trying to distract him from what was going on around him. That is where the 'story' about the Porsche came from when Jeremy told them he wanted to buy a kit car.
It is quite a natural thing to make small talk in such situations. I remember doing so myself when I found myself in a situation that involved a family tragedy. I wish people would stop making much ado about nothing. Jeremy's actions were one's of a confused man. Sometimes he would appear calm and other times he would feel stressed. What we of course don't see are the actual words that the police spoke to bring on such reactions? We only know what they "chose" to say in their statements.

Online nugnug

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Re: Jeremy's Debts
« Reply #109 on: July 28, 2014, 07:51:PM »
well the police were making small talk as well.

Offline grahameb

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Re: Jeremy's Debts
« Reply #110 on: July 28, 2014, 07:54:PM »
What am I making up?  I see you are back to Team Jeremy again by the way,

Fact:  Jeremy did not go to WHF right away like an average person receiving such a message would do (and many would call police then immediately go) but rather TESTIFIED he did not feel the call was urgent and thus at first did basically nothing.  In fact he didn't do nothing though he phoned Julie to have a witness who could say, "he told me he received a call from his father" so that police would think well maybe he really did receive it since he told a third party at the time that he had. 20 minutes after calling her he finally called police and claimed as time went on he realized it was urgent so that is when he called them. 

FACT: after claling police did he go to WHF?  No he waited in the phone hoping that the cops would arrive and could then report to them what they had found.  The dispatcher told him to go to WHF to meet police so that is what reuslte din him going.

FACT: he was known to fly there in 5 minutes.  Did he drive fast and then go knock on the door or climb through a window like he knew how to do?  No he drove as slow as dirt and when he saw police approaching he pulled to the side of the road so they could beat him there.  He was a mile away only and he stopped so they coudl go first.  Instead of immediately getting on their tale he stayed and waited a while so tha the could pull up several minutes later.

FACT: he did not try to go in or even to look in the windows but rather stayed a distance fromt he house.

FACT: instead of ever telling police he knew a way to quietly enter through the windows he said the place would be solidly bolted up and lied about how leaving out a weapon and bullets before going home and how he had taught Sheila to shoot that weapon and that she coudl use eveyr weapon in the house.

FACT: instead of ever trying to call into the house using the megaphone to speak to his family he just chatted with police about guy stuff until he decided to pretend he was upset.  At that point he claimed he wa supset and need to talk to his girl for comfort but used the time instead to tell her not to go to work because he wanted to use her as a witness to corroborate he recieved a call from Nevill.

FACT: he never exhibited any survivor's guilt at all let alone any guilt or sorrow at allegedly leaving out the murder wepaon and bullets and thus being responsible.

Those making excuses for Jeremy in this regard are all so full of crap that they need an enema.  They would be screaming form the rooftops if julie or someone else they did not like acted in such regard.

There is no way to seriously deny his actions do not match what someone in his place would have done.

When you look at the actual evidence proving he staged the bullets and lied about eveyrthing and SHeial coudl not have killed anyone else and could not have killed herself then it is easy to see why he acted in such an odd manner- he killed them.
That may seem to be so to you. But it is my ability to look at things from both sides. You unfortunately do not have this abilty. Your position is one of bias which you interpret as supported by evidence. I have simply pointed out that all yo often you "presume" some things to be the truth. But in reality it just declares your based attitude against Bamber. I on the other hand have posted both for and against him. If you by chance regain your sense of equilibrium at any time and read my posts instead of forming an opinion without reading them, then you will see that I am not biased towards Bamber.

Offline maggie

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Re: Jeremy's Debts
« Reply #111 on: July 28, 2014, 07:56:PM »
It is quite a natural thing to make small talk in such situations. I remember doing so myself when I found myself in a situation that involved a family tragedy. I wish people would stop making much ado about nothing. Jeremy's actions were one's of a confused man. Sometimes he would appear calm and other times he would feel stressed. What we of course don't see are the actual words that the police spoke to bring on such reactions? We only know what they "chose" to say in their statements.
Exactly Grahame. :)

Offline grahameb

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Re: Jeremy's Debts
« Reply #112 on: July 28, 2014, 07:57:PM »
What am I making up?  I see you are back to Team Jeremy again by the way,

Fact:  Jeremy did not go to WHF right away like an average person receiving such a message would do (and many would call police then immediately go) but rather TESTIFIED he did not feel the call was urgent and thus at first did basically nothing.  In fact he didn't do nothing though he phoned Julie to have a witness who could say, "he told me he received a call from his father" so that police would think well maybe he really did receive it since he told a third party at the time that he had. 20 minutes after calling her he finally called police and claimed as time went on he realized it was urgent so that is when he called them. 

FACT: after claling police did he go to WHF?  No he waited in the phone hoping that the cops would arrive and could then report to them what they had found.  The dispatcher told him to go to WHF to meet police so that is what reuslte din him going.

FACT: he was known to fly there in 5 minutes.  Did he drive fast and then go knock on the door or climb through a window like he knew how to do?  No he drove as slow as dirt and when he saw police approaching he pulled to the side of the road so they could beat him there.  He was a mile away only and he stopped so they coudl go first.  Instead of immediately getting on their tale he stayed and waited a while so tha the could pull up several minutes later.

FACT: he did not try to go in or even to look in the windows but rather stayed a distance fromt he house.

FACT: instead of ever telling police he knew a way to quietly enter through the windows he said the place would be solidly bolted up and lied about how leaving out a weapon and bullets before going home and how he had taught Sheila to shoot that weapon and that she coudl use eveyr weapon in the house.

FACT: instead of ever trying to call into the house using the megaphone to speak to his family he just chatted with police about guy stuff until he decided to pretend he was upset.  At that point he claimed he wa supset and need to talk to his girl for comfort but used the time instead to tell her not to go to work because he wanted to use her as a witness to corroborate he recieved a call from Nevill.

FACT: he never exhibited any survivor's guilt at all let alone any guilt or sorrow at allegedly leaving out the murder wepaon and bullets and thus being responsible.

Those making excuses for Jeremy in this regard are all so full of crap that they need an enema.  They would be screaming form the rooftops if julie or someone else they did not like acted in such regard.

There is no way to seriously deny his actions do not match what someone in his place would have done.

When you look at the actual evidence proving he staged the bullets and lied about eveyrthing and SHeial coudl not have killed anyone else and could not have killed herself then it is easy to see why he acted in such an odd manner- he killed them.
You really have to get past your ego scipio. Perhaps then you will see through this completely biased post of yours. Perhaps it is you who need the enema? ;)

Offline JackiePreece

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Re: Jeremy's Debts
« Reply #113 on: July 28, 2014, 08:01:PM »
FACT: he was known to fly there in 5 minutes.  Did he drive fast and then go knock on the door or climb through a window like he knew how to do?  No he drove as slow as dirt and when he saw police approaching he pulled to the side of the road so they could beat him there.  He was a mile away only and he stopped so they coudl go first.  Instead of immediately getting on their tale he stayed and waited a while so tha the could pull up several minutes later.

You don't know anything!! What rubbish

As Jeremy was known as a bit of a 'woos' he probably made sure the police went first

Jeremy obviously did not realise the gravity of the situation shown by his remarks on first being told his family was all dead

And that came straight from the horses mouth

Fact !!!
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Offline Caroline

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Re: Jeremy's Debts
« Reply #114 on: July 28, 2014, 08:11:PM »
If he was in shock, I don´t think it was neccessarily an odd response - just imagine!

His first response was to accuse the raid team of killing everyone - thus he accepted they were dead. THEN he asks to speak to his father. It's like the denial of him being dead was an 'after thought'
Few people have the imagination for reality

Offline lookout

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Re: Jeremy's Debts
« Reply #115 on: July 28, 2014, 08:17:PM »
]

IF he is innocent though. does he behaviour seem odd?

that is a question that no one seems willing to answer?





No,I don't think his behaviour was odd at all. It was in keeping with a state of confusion that only Jeremy as a person would have been capable of.
I think we'd all be in a state of confusion given what had happened and we'd all" act "it out differently.
In fact,we may even act out of character until reality set in.

Offline grahameb

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Re: Jeremy's Debts
« Reply #116 on: July 28, 2014, 08:17:PM »
His first response was to accuse the raid team of killing everyone - thus he accepted they were dead. THEN he asks to speak to his father. It's like the denial of him being dead was an 'after thought'
Exactly. Typical behaviour of someone that is in confusion and shock. He had just been told that his whole family were dead. Common sense would tell you that this was typical of someone who was in shock? Why else, what other perpose would it serve to lie about such things. Why do people insist of judging this man on what he said in a stressful situation such as he found himself. These in my opinion were actions and words of an innocent man.

Offline maggie

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Re: Jeremy's Debts
« Reply #117 on: July 28, 2014, 08:18:PM »
His first response was to accuse the raid team of killing everyone - thus he accepted they were dead. THEN he asks to speak to his father. It's like the denial of him being dead was an 'after thought'
I know it sounds weird Caroline but after seeing how some people behave when faced with a sudden death of a relative, shock certainly ha strange effects on we humans, I believe any behaviour is possible. :-\
« Last Edit: July 28, 2014, 08:20:PM by maggie »

Offline lookout

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Re: Jeremy's Debts
« Reply #118 on: July 28, 2014, 08:22:PM »
We must remember too that he was only 24 at the time,and not a mature 24 !  He'd never really had a taste of having to stand on his own two feet,so he'd have to grow up overnight and take responsibility for something that he didn't have a clue about,or what to expect.

Offline Alias

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Re: Jeremy's Debts
« Reply #119 on: July 28, 2014, 08:24:PM »
His first response was to accuse the raid team of killing everyone - thus he accepted they were dead. THEN he asks to speak to his father. It's like the denial of him being dead was an 'after thought'

Personally I don´t think you can expect rational reactions in a situation like that. I try to imagine the chaos of the whole scene, the horrid message- it would take some time to really sink in.
His accusation that the police had killed everyone wasn´t rational either.
His first reaction was anger, and true, normally you have denial first, but no two people react the same.

P.S. I am not an expert on this, but isn´t shock and grieving different? There are these "Five stages of Grief", where denial is the first reaction, and anger the second - but what about shock?
« Last Edit: July 28, 2014, 08:32:PM by Alias »