Author Topic: Jeremy Bambers Injuries  (Read 30455 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline scipio_usmc

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9502
Re: Jeremy Bambers Injuries
« Reply #225 on: July 24, 2014, 06:09:PM »
Sheila would not have had to load a full magazine at any time.

The gun had 11 rounds so not just a full magazine but one in the chamber when the shooting in the master bedroom took place.  The gun was emptied on the parents and then Nevill made his way to the kitchen either chansing the killer or with the killer chasing him.  If the killer had less than 11 round sin the gun then Nevill would have jumped the killer as he/she tried to relaod or would have fled to the kitchen before the killer coudlreload in which case the 11 shots would not have been fired anyway.   

Backspatter occurs from close contact shots where the blood is drawn into the weapon by the vacuum.

Wrong drawback is where blood is drawn into the weapon and that is when the gun is fired less than 2mm from the body.

Back spatter can occur regardless of the distance the shot is fired.  When the shooter is within severla feet of the victim that is when such spatter can hit the shooter.

Distance determines whether the spatter will land on the shooter.

Back spatter also occurs during the course of beatings, stabbings, bludgeonings. Gunshots cause high velocity spatter the drops are finer.  Medium velociy spatter results in larger drops. 

How come she didn't have GSR on her nightdress when the rifle was laying on top of her?

Because she didn't shoot herself.  Had she hugged the rifle and shot herself then there would have been GSR on her nightgown.  Her nightgown would have been right next to the firing mechanism where the GSR cloud forms. The lack of such is evidence she didn't shoot herself.  The killer held the gun so the firing mechansim was not adjacent to her body rather the rifle was far awy form her body because the moderator was touching her not the rifle.

Coordination problems may have been an invention by AE. Did she know Sheila that well? How often did she see her? It may have been when she was stoned on some other drug or receiving the full dose of Halperol.

She had the coordination problems long term that is why she coudl not drive her hand eye coordination and depth perception rpoblems.  The medicide would have mad eit worse though.  100MG is a full dose. Haldol causes tremors and the like as well as sedates.  Procyclidine was the counter that was supposed to give her energy and to counter the tremors.  She never refilled that prescription and was not tkaing it.  That could very well be why she was over sedated.  Ferguson made that diagnosis based on what every stated they obversed: Freddie and everyone else who saw her after she was on Haldol said she was vacant, talked very slow and was hard to talk to was often tired...  He noted the physical abilities of such person would be limited.

Reason does not come into the equation talking about people having psychotic episodes.
She could have been naked at the time of the murders.
Where did you get the information about the garments in the buckets only having menstrual blood on them?
 

Even crazy people have a reason for doing the things they do.  I was waiting for someone to claim she did it nude and then took a shower.  It is not enough to say that is a theoretical possiiblity you need to establish it is reasonably likely to have occurred.  Of course you can't do that because you have no evidence and simply made up that claim.  If she did it nude then for sure she would have had injuries and would have left her prints in blood as well.  The killer wore gloves and no such gloves were found at WHF the killer left with them.

The items in the buckets were all female clothing worn on the lower half of the body with large stains in the crotch area.  No felames were wounded in an are of the body that could have resulted to heavy bleeding to the crotch area of the clothing- 2 pairs of panties and 1 pair of leggings.

The evidence indicating it was menstrual is overwhelming and in fact SHeila was menstrauting when she was killed...

Freddie was very fearful that Sheila would become violent.

so?  He was scared that she would become violent during the course of a long psychotic episode but she didn't.  That is evidence that even during a long psychotic episode caused by her not taking her medicaiton that she had not become violent.  Worse for you, though she recognized no one else during her delusions she recognzed Nevill as soon as she saw him and she instantly became calm, stopped having delusions and became totally rational.  SO if she were having delusions at WHF upon seeing Nevill she likely would have calmed down not become worse.  She was properly medicated while at WHF no scratch that over medicated as opposed to not tkaing her medication which Freddie experienced.

Far from helping you his testimony harms your claims a great deal.   

Who do you think gouged Neville's arm?
Please be concise if you answer... or is verbal diarrhea your MO to wear people down.

Jeremy did such.  He did such with the butt of the rifle.  The very end of the butt had a "knob" that would do nicely in causing those gouges and dragging the linaer butt againt the arm will cause the linear wounds.  Vanezis believes the stock caused the skull fractures and the evidence bears that out.

There were stress fractures to the stock and a peice even broke off along one of those fracture lines.  Such fractures are caused by the force of the stock being compressed by someone forcing the rifle butt into something hard. Jeremy was holding the rifle with one hand on the narrow portion of the stock and the other on the foregrip. The stock broke exactly where it was being held so it would have curt or at minimum left a scratch on the hand of the killer unless the killer had gloves on.  This could very well be what ripped off Jeremy's glove.  He described a glove being torn off during the struggle.

When the killer was busy bashing the butt of the rifle into Nevill's face and head he didn't just let the killer do it.  He raised his arm to block the blows. His arm was horixzonal in front of him blocked the blows.  His forearm and elbow were thus damaged and his wristwatch that was on such arm ripped off. 
His arm blocked blows fromt eh butt getting defensive wounds int he proces sbut eventually the killer got through and did breka his nose, give him black eyes and bash his skull in.

A nude Sheila would have been covered in blood and woudl have been wounded when the stock broke plus have cut her feet.  Jeremy was protected from such because he had on gloves though he would have been covere din blood and thus washed up and changed his clothes before he called the police.

 
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline lebaleb

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 884
Re: Jeremy Bambers Injuries
« Reply #226 on: July 25, 2014, 09:36:AM »
The gun had 11 rounds so not just a full magazine but one in the chamber when the shooting in the master bedroom took place.  The gun was emptied on the parents and then Nevill made his way to the kitchen either chansing the killer or with the killer chasing him.  If the killer had less than 11 round sin the gun then Nevill would have jumped the killer as he/she tried to relaod or would have fled to the kitchen before the killer coudlreload in which case the 11 shots would not have been fired anyway.   

Wrong drawback is where blood is drawn into the weapon and that is when the gun is fired less than 2mm from the body.

Back spatter can occur regardless of the distance the shot is fired.  When the shooter is within severla feet of the victim that is when such spatter can hit the shooter.

Distance determines whether the spatter will land on the shooter.

Back spatter also occurs during the course of beatings, stabbings, bludgeonings. Gunshots cause high velocity spatter the drops are finer.  Medium velociy spatter results in larger drops. 

Because she didn't shoot herself.  Had she hugged the rifle and shot herself then there would have been GSR on her nightgown.  Her nightgown would have been right next to the firing mechanism where the GSR cloud forms. The lack of such is evidence she didn't shoot herself.  The killer held the gun so the firing mechansim was not adjacent to her body rather the rifle was far awy form her body because the moderator was touching her not the rifle.

She had the coordination problems long term that is why she coudl not drive her hand eye coordination and depth perception rpoblems.  The medicide would have mad eit worse though.  100MG is a full dose. Haldol causes tremors and the like as well as sedates.  Procyclidine was the counter that was supposed to give her energy and to counter the tremors.  She never refilled that prescription and was not tkaing it.  That could very well be why she was over sedated.  Ferguson made that diagnosis based on what every stated they obversed: Freddie and everyone else who saw her after she was on Haldol said she was vacant, talked very slow and was hard to talk to was often tired...  He noted the physical abilities of such person would be limited.
 

Even crazy people have a reason for doing the things they do.  I was waiting for someone to claim she did it nude and then took a shower.  It is not enough to say that is a theoretical possiiblity you need to establish it is reasonably likely to have occurred.  Of course you can't do that because you have no evidence and simply made up that claim.  If she did it nude then for sure she would have had injuries and would have left her prints in blood as well.  The killer wore gloves and no such gloves were found at WHF the killer left with them.

The items in the buckets were all female clothing worn on the lower half of the body with large stains in the crotch area.  No felames were wounded in an are of the body that could have resulted to heavy bleeding to the crotch area of the clothing- 2 pairs of panties and 1 pair of leggings.

The evidence indicating it was menstrual is overwhelming and in fact SHeila was menstrauting when she was killed...

so?  He was scared that she would become violent during the course of a long psychotic episode but she didn't.  That is evidence that even during a long psychotic episode caused by her not taking her medicaiton that she had not become violent.  Worse for you, though she recognized no one else during her delusions she recognzed Nevill as soon as she saw him and she instantly became calm, stopped having delusions and became totally rational.  SO if she were having delusions at WHF upon seeing Nevill she likely would have calmed down not become worse.  She was properly medicated while at WHF no scratch that over medicated as opposed to not tkaing her medication which Freddie experienced.

Far from helping you his testimony harms your claims a great deal.   

Jeremy did such.  He did such with the butt of the rifle.  The very end of the butt had a "knob" that would do nicely in causing those gouges and dragging the linaer butt againt the arm will cause the linear wounds.  Vanezis believes the stock caused the skull fractures and the evidence bears that out.

There were stress fractures to the stock and a peice even broke off along one of those fracture lines.  Such fractures are caused by the force of the stock being compressed by someone forcing the rifle butt into something hard. Jeremy was holding the rifle with one hand on the narrow portion of the stock and the other on the foregrip. The stock broke exactly where it was being held so it would have curt or at minimum left a scratch on the hand of the killer unless the killer had gloves on.  This could very well be what ripped off Jeremy's glove.  He described a glove being torn off during the struggle.

When the killer was busy bashing the butt of the rifle into Nevill's face and head he didn't just let the killer do it.  He raised his arm to block the blows. His arm was horixzonal in front of him blocked the blows.  His forearm and elbow were thus damaged and his wristwatch that was on such arm ripped off. 
His arm blocked blows fromt eh butt getting defensive wounds int he proces sbut eventually the killer got through and did breka his nose, give him black eyes and bash his skull in.

A nude Sheila would have been covered in blood and woudl have been wounded when the stock broke plus have cut her feet.  Jeremy was protected from such because he had on gloves though he would have been covere din blood and thus washed up and changed his clothes before he called the police.
June walked around the bedroom bleeding. This indicates that not all of the shots were fired at the same time. Similarly, 5 shots to Neville would have been enough to disable him. After 2 shots to the head he could barely get downstairs. Jumping the killer would have been impossible. The remaining shots delivered to both after reloading.

If that is Backspatter then what on earth were they talking about at the trial. Or did they all get it wrong?

But the rifle itself must have been covered in GSR. From the trajectory of the shots to Sheila, the rifle must have been close to her regardless of who pulled the trigger.

Sheila was originally getting 200mg.

Yes they do but crazy reasons.
It is certain that Sheila was menstruating. However, you cannot categorically state that the was no backspatter on the clothes. You just told me it would be a fine spray.
Why would she have injuries? The struggle scenario is highly speculative.
She may well have been wearing socks that were found near the body. Someone had showered and left the shower head off its hook.
There is no evidence that the killer wore gloves.
Properly medicated while at WHF??

With no bleeding from the gouge marks it indicates they were either post mortem or from an earlier episode and then cleaned.



Offline lookout

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 48676
Re: Jeremy Bambers Injuries
« Reply #227 on: July 25, 2014, 09:41:AM »
 I'm with you there,Lebaleb,on the backspatter.It acts like a vacuum when the shot is a contact one,so that persons' blood is bound to be in it. The other shots of the victims weren't made by contact.

Pity common sense didn't prevail within that courtroom !

Offline grahameb

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 11830
Re: Jeremy Bambers Injuries
« Reply #228 on: July 25, 2014, 09:48:AM »
The gun had 11 rounds so not just a full magazine but one in the chamber when the shooting in the master bedroom took place.  The gun was emptied on the parents and then Nevill made his way to the kitchen either chansing the killer or with the killer chasing him.  If the killer had less than 11 round sin the gun then Nevill would have jumped the killer as he/she tried to relaod or would have fled to the kitchen before the killer coudlreload in which case the 11 shots would not have been fired anyway.   

Wrong drawback is where blood is drawn into the weapon and that is when the gun is fired less than 2mm from the body.

Back spatter can occur regardless of the distance the shot is fired.  When the shooter is within severla feet of the victim that is when such spatter can hit the shooter.

Distance determines whether the spatter will land on the shooter.

Back spatter also occurs during the course of beatings, stabbings, bludgeonings. Gunshots cause high velocity spatter the drops are finer.  Medium velociy spatter results in larger drops. 

Because she didn't shoot herself.  Had she hugged the rifle and shot herself then there would have been GSR on her nightgown.  Her nightgown would have been right next to the firing mechanism where the GSR cloud forms. The lack of such is evidence she didn't shoot herself.  The killer held the gun so the firing mechansim was not adjacent to her body rather the rifle was far awy form her body because the moderator was touching her not the rifle.

She had the coordination problems long term that is why she coudl not drive her hand eye coordination and depth perception rpoblems.  The medicide would have mad eit worse though.  100MG is a full dose. Haldol causes tremors and the like as well as sedates.  Procyclidine was the counter that was supposed to give her energy and to counter the tremors.  She never refilled that prescription and was not tkaing it.  That could very well be why she was over sedated.  Ferguson made that diagnosis based on what every stated they obversed: Freddie and everyone else who saw her after she was on Haldol said she was vacant, talked very slow and was hard to talk to was often tired...  He noted the physical abilities of such person would be limited.
 

Even crazy people have a reason for doing the things they do.  I was waiting for someone to claim she did it nude and then took a shower.  It is not enough to say that is a theoretical possiiblity you need to establish it is reasonably likely to have occurred.  Of course you can't do that because you have no evidence and simply made up that claim.  If she did it nude then for sure she would have had injuries and would have left her prints in blood as well.  The killer wore gloves and no such gloves were found at WHF the killer left with them.

The items in the buckets were all female clothing worn on the lower half of the body with large stains in the crotch area.  No felames were wounded in an are of the body that could have resulted to heavy bleeding to the crotch area of the clothing- 2 pairs of panties and 1 pair of leggings.

The evidence indicating it was menstrual is overwhelming and in fact SHeila was menstrauting when she was killed...

so?  He was scared that she would become violent during the course of a long psychotic episode but she didn't.  That is evidence that even during a long psychotic episode caused by her not taking her medicaiton that she had not become violent.  Worse for you, though she recognized no one else during her delusions she recognzed Nevill as soon as she saw him and she instantly became calm, stopped having delusions and became totally rational.  SO if she were having delusions at WHF upon seeing Nevill she likely would have calmed down not become worse.  She was properly medicated while at WHF no scratch that over medicated as opposed to not tkaing her medication which Freddie experienced.

Far from helping you his testimony harms your claims a great deal.   

Jeremy did such.  He did such with the butt of the rifle.  The very end of the butt had a "knob" that would do nicely in causing those gouges and dragging the linaer butt againt the arm will cause the linear wounds.  Vanezis believes the stock caused the skull fractures and the evidence bears that out.

There were stress fractures to the stock and a peice even broke off along one of those fracture lines.  Such fractures are caused by the force of the stock being compressed by someone forcing the rifle butt into something hard. Jeremy was holding the rifle with one hand on the narrow portion of the stock and the other on the foregrip. The stock broke exactly where it was being held so it would have curt or at minimum left a scratch on the hand of the killer unless the killer had gloves on.  This could very well be what ripped off Jeremy's glove.  He described a glove being torn off during the struggle.

When the killer was busy bashing the butt of the rifle into Nevill's face and head he didn't just let the killer do it.  He raised his arm to block the blows. His arm was horixzonal in front of him blocked the blows.  His forearm and elbow were thus damaged and his wristwatch that was on such arm ripped off. 
His arm blocked blows fromt eh butt getting defensive wounds int he proces sbut eventually the killer got through and did breka his nose, give him black eyes and bash his skull in.

A nude Sheila would have been covered in blood and woudl have been wounded when the stock broke plus have cut her feet.  Jeremy was protected from such because he had on gloves though he would have been covere din blood and thus washed up and changed his clothes before he called the police.
I believe none of the shots were from that close. None apparently were contact shots. Vanesis was surprised to hear that there was blood on the inside of the silencer. He expected blood to be on the outside.
Also concerning eleven cartridges in the magazine and one in the chamber? How is that possible. Also no one knows how many bullets were loaded in the gun at any given time. The only witness we have is Jeremy where he said that he loaded the magazine.
Again if there was one bullet in the chamber surely that answers your question on how did Sheila know how to chamber a bullet? Answer from your own comment. She didn't have to, because there was one already in the chamber? You said it remember and not me. ;)

Offline curiousessex

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1418
  • ROCH INDEX 70
Re: Jeremy Bambers Injuries
« Reply #229 on: July 25, 2014, 10:14:AM »
I believe none of the shots were from that close. None apparently were contact shots. Vanesis was surprised to hear that there was blood on the inside of the silencer. He expected blood to be on the outside.
Also concerning eleven cartridges in the magazine and one in the chamber? How is that possible. Also no one knows how many bullets were loaded in the gun at any given time. The only witness we have is Jeremy where he said that he loaded the magazine.
Again if there was one bullet in the chamber surely that answers your question on how did Sheila know how to chamber a bullet? Answer from your own comment. She didn't have to, because there was one already in the chamber? You said it remember and not me. ;)

Jeremy says he removed the loaded magazine before he left WHF. Surely he would also remove the bullet from the chamber at the same time if he was disarming the rifle to make it safe.

Jeremy was clearly aware of safety issues with weapons because when the police arrived at WHF early the following morning Jeremy was concerned about having potentially committed an offence by having left the magazine out and not having secured it away properly.

Offline grahameb

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 11830
Re: Jeremy Bambers Injuries
« Reply #230 on: July 25, 2014, 10:20:AM »
Jeremy says he removed the loaded magazine before he left WHF. Surely he would also remove the bullet from the chamber at the same time if he was disarming the rifle to make it safe.

Jeremy was clearly aware of safety issues with weapons because when the police arrived at WHF early the following morning Jeremy was concerned about having potentially committed an offence by having left the magazine out and not having secured it away properly.
Hi curious. I was answering scipio, who said right from the start that Sheila would not have known how to chamber a bullet. This I thought was a very good point and I agreed with him on that. But now he says that the magazine was full (11 bullets) PLUS one in the chamber.
Now that he's said that he has actually negated his former assertion that Sheila didn't know how to chamber a bullet. That is why I said to his latest assertion that she didn't have to know how to chamber a bullet, because there was already one in the chamber. In effect he answered his own dilemma.  ;D

No-Bits

  • Guest
Re: Jeremy Bambers Injuries
« Reply #231 on: July 25, 2014, 10:24:AM »
Hi curious. I was answering scipio, who said right from the start that Sheila would not have known how to chamber a bullet. This I thought was a very good point and I agreed with him on that. But now he says that the magazine was full (11 bullets) PLUS one in the chamber.
Now that he's said that he has actually negated his former assertion that Sheila didn't know how to chamber a bullet. That is why I said to his latest assertion that she didn't have to know how to chamber a bullet, because there was already one in the chamber. In effect he answered his own dilemma.  ;D

One thinks one is taking thy pish :P  ;D

Offline grahameb

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 11830
Re: Jeremy Bambers Injuries
« Reply #232 on: July 25, 2014, 10:34:AM »
One thinks one is taking thy pish :P  ;D
How am I doing that Hartley? I'm just repeating what he wrote. Look back on his posts and you will see.

Offline JackiePreece

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4743
Re: Jeremy Bambers Injuries
« Reply #233 on: July 25, 2014, 01:29:PM »
Caroline,

Did you reply re scratches on the mantlepiece from the silencer

If as you state the silencer was not used what were they?
"No hour of life is wasted that is spent in the saddle" Winston Churchill

Offline lebaleb

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 884
Re: Jeremy Bambers Injuries
« Reply #234 on: July 25, 2014, 01:48:PM »
I think it's possible that Sheila attached the silencer to shoot the boys. She wouldn't want them to wake up. Further shots to June and Neville after that, bludgeoning Neville some more even though he was probably already dead. Speculation... yes, I know.

Offline grahameb

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 11830
Re: Jeremy Bambers Injuries
« Reply #235 on: July 25, 2014, 01:51:PM »
I think it's possible that Sheila attached the silencer to shoot the boys. She wouldn't want them to wake up. Further shots to June and Neville after that, bludgeoning Neville some more even though he was probably already dead. Speculation... yes, I know.
If she did that I can't really see her putting it back in the gun cupboard?

Offline lebaleb

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 884
Re: Jeremy Bambers Injuries
« Reply #236 on: July 25, 2014, 02:31:PM »
If she did that I can't really see her putting it back in the gun cupboard?

There is no logic with people having psychotic episodes. Voices tell them to do things.

Offline grahameb

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 11830
Re: Jeremy Bambers Injuries
« Reply #237 on: July 25, 2014, 02:32:PM »
There is no logic with people having psychotic episodes. Voices tell them to do things.
Yes that's right. Mine do. :-X

Offline Alias

  • Editor
  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9435
  • What is in those 200 boxes?
Re: Jeremy Bambers Injuries
« Reply #238 on: July 25, 2014, 02:45:PM »
I have nugs and Maggie on ignore - you're right that it gives you a good break, I wish it would removed the posts completely though instead of you having to still scroll past it.

I have the whole lot of yas on ignore and just scroll past everything, write posts sometimes out of the blue and read those!  ;D What a bliss!

Just kidding.

Offline grahameb

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 11830
Re: Jeremy Bambers Injuries
« Reply #239 on: July 25, 2014, 03:15:PM »
Jeremy says he removed the loaded magazine before he left WHF. Surely he would also remove the bullet from the chamber at the same time if he was disarming the rifle to make it safe.

Jeremy was clearly aware of safety issues with weapons because when the police arrived at WHF early the following morning Jeremy was concerned about having potentially committed an offence by having left the magazine out and not having secured it away properly.
Yes he did. I was just dismissing scipio's post as wrong. He was obviously ahem!..."misled" again. ::)